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Post by Montezuma on Jul 24, 2024 8:22:24 GMT -5
Even after trying to be logical basing oneself upon such fact that tigers are full-time predators, agile and have longer teeth etc doesn't make one logical since in face fight, in animal world, there are many other factors as well. Tigers are full time predators but there is a great difference between predation and hunting e.g. a tiger can kill a well sized water buffalo in ambush predation, and it gets easily gored to death by the same sized buffalo in a pit fight (as in Indian and Indo-chinese tiger-buffalo fights). Being agile indeed an advantage but not an all rounder advantage as brute strength, better fighting posture, size, and more flexible forelimbs etc are also important fighting features.
Our logic is clear and easy to understand since it's true, theirs is just awful and ridiculous.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 10:52:07 GMT -5
(6/24/2024) The radical, juvenile, fanboy says:
Nice info, thanks for posting, but not surprising at all. As expected, Russian experts and those who live and work in the forests of Far East Russia, will certainly testify to the Amur tigers dominance and superiority over the brown bear. In very recent years, Russian authorities and biologists such as Sergey Aramilev, other Amur Tiger Center experts, Pavel Fomenko, Yuri Dunishenko, Yuri Vankov etc, have all talked about tiger-brown bear interactions and fights, and all favor an adult male tiger in a fight against even very large brown bears (400 - 600 kg).
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400kg (882 lbs) - 600kg (1,323 lbs) Well Mr. fanboy, you say that a tiger can kill even the biggest Ussuri brown bear in a fight. You say that they say. He said She said. Just you talking.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 10:54:47 GMT -5
More from the fanboy:
The old Russian biologists from the Soviet Union era, like Kucherenko and Rukovsky, also talked about clashes and battles between tigers and large brown bears, and based on their own observations and experiences, both favored the tiger and stated that the tiger is more often the winner in a fight against a 'large' or 'very large' brown bear.
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*True. The tiger is more often the winner after he ambushes even a very large female brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:03:10 GMT -5
More from the fanboy:
Siberian tigers are the apex predators of the Amur-Ussuri taiga, at the very pinnacle of the food-chain, they hunt, kill and eat adult brown bears, they also reduce and regulate bear populations, and statistics, accounts and expert testimonies consistently show that tigers win most fights against brown bears. So based on all these factors, the tiger is clearly the dominant animal in that region.
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1- True - that the tiger is the apex predator; since the brown bear is a part-time omnivore predator.
2- False - bears make up roughly 3% of an adult male tiger's diet. Bear population numbers are not affected.
3- True - statistics, accounts and expert testimonies consistently show that tigers win most fights against adolescent and adult female brown bears.
4- Partly true - tigers are dominant over adolescent and adult female brown bears; but they strictly avoid the adult male brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:04:50 GMT -5
More from the fanboy: False information: So it's no surprise that 'wildrussiantour' also stated that the tiger is the dominant animal and reduces brown bear populations in that region. __________________________ *Perhaps some female bears with cubs leave an area, where there are tigers, for the safety of her cubs. Fact: If a she-bear with 2 cubs leaves an area because of tigers, that location now has three less brown bears. However, in the area where the she-bear goes to, there is now three more bears. Altogether, the brown bear population of the RFE is not affected.  |
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:07:24 GMT -5
More from the fanboy:
To add further credence to 'wildrussiantour's statement. Recently, in 2022, a male tiger hunted and killed a larger adult male brown bear in a fight. Chief forest inspector Yuri Kya and his team of seasoned forest rangers found clear evidence and trace's all over the ground (trampled snow, broken bushes and grass and partially-eaten bear carcass) of a prolonged battle. The tiger killed the big male brown bear in a head-on fight and feasted on him for several days.
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A big male tiger called Odyr killed a 3 year old adolescent male brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:10:07 GMT -5
More from the fanboy:
The tiger received NO bad or serious injuries from the fight, he was fine, which strongly suggests that the tiger dominated the battle.
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True; the adult male tiger managed to kill the adolescent 3 year old bear without himself being injured.
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:15:20 GMT -5
More from the fanboy:
Here's an interesting documentary I found last year. In which the Russian tiger expert & forest ranger, Yuri Vankov says that bears are one of the main food of tigers and make-up 13% of the tigers annual diet. He also states that in fights between tigers and brown bears, as a rule, the tiger emerges victorious.
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Perhaps (maybe) more bears are killed in some locations than in other locations. Regardless, the brown bear prey of the tiger consists mostly of adolescent bears along with occasionally an adult she-bear. Tigers do not hunt adult male brown bears. (as the kid is trying to imply).
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:18:11 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jul 24, 2024 11:33:48 GMT -5
Today (7/24/2024) The radical, juvenile, fanboy says (in second post): I'm not going to copy and paste every stupid thing the fanboys says here. According to him, the forest rangers observed trampled grass, scattered snow, and such and stated that it looked like there had been a fight. Then (of course) the fanboy goes on to describe this tiger killing a gigantic male brown bear. Here is what the kid does not realize. It does not take a PHD to become a forest ranger. Their reading of broken grass and scattered snow means nothing. The bear footprints in the fresh snow did not match the feet on the bear carcass, which was itself covered in ice and snow. The carcass was that of a 3-year-old adolescent bear. The footprints were made sometime after the smaller bear had died (possibly killed by the tiger). Nevertheless; I'm sure that the Fake Professor will give the kid an A+ _______________________________________________________ There is not even one single confirmed report, filed and peer reviewed, of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear. Any biologist, who can prove that a tiger has killed a healthy full-grown male brown bear will, without exception, file such a report. IF there was a biologist on the scene and IF he believed that Odyr had killed an adult male brown bear and IF he had found any evidence to back up his claim, then the incident would have be filed, peer reviewed, and documented. But it wasn't because Odyr never killed an adult male brown bear. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 24, 2024 13:22:27 GMT -5
More from the fanboy: To add further credence to 'wildrussiantour's statement. Recently, in 2022, a male tiger hunted and killed a larger adult male brown bear in a fight. Chief forest inspector Yuri Kya and his team of seasoned forest rangers found clear evidence and trace's all over the ground (trampled snow, broken bushes and grass and partially-eaten bear carcass) of a prolonged battle. The tiger killed the big male brown bear in a head-on fight and feasted on him for several days. ___________________________________________________________________ A big male tiger called Odyr killed a 3 year old adolescent male brown bear. You know what was the truth about this account. Q：Здравствуйте, я недавно слышал, что в заповеднике была битва тигра с медведем У вас есть больше информации об этом медведе? Reserve：Здравствуйте!Медведя звали Миша, кличка «Косолапый», возраст примерно 3 года Подвид бурый. В ходе сражения тигр не пострадал. Начальник отдела охраны Милежик М.П. С Уважением, филиал Большехехцирский ФГ БУ"Заповедное Приамурье'
DeepL translation:
"Hello! The bear's name was Misha, nicknamed "Kosolapy", about 3 years old. The subspecies is brown. The tiger was not harmed in the battle. M.P. Milezhik, head of the patrol."
Sincerely, Bolshekhetsirsky Branch of FSBI "Priamur'e Reserved (4212) 491869 - accounting department
(4212) 491872 - General Department  Who gave more details of that bear? M.P. Milezhik or Yuri? Did yuri told the true age, name or any other unguessed detail abou that bear? No, but Milezhik did as he told that the bear was a "3 year old male brown bear (sub-adult) called Kosolapy". And he is more reliable than yuri since he is a true biologist. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 24, 2024 13:26:41 GMT -5
In Amur taiga, both the bear and tiger are referred as 'Master of the Taiga', that's the real truth. However, bears are also called as Master of Lakes/Seas/Rivers showing their mythical authority of water bodies and lands. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 24, 2024 13:29:35 GMT -5
It's very awful to see that how openly the fanboy is allowed to misrepresent information and spread propaganda so openly without a slight restriction from the forum's admin.
Wildfact will kill itself with such persons.
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Post by brobear on Jul 25, 2024 1:43:51 GMT -5
The Boogeyman makes his last post at the Carnival.
Siberian Tiger v Ussuri Brown Bear - the fanboy's obsession. 1:09 PM - May 26#5692
His usual arm's length post where he rattles on and on. And he asks:
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Here are some questions to be answered, which bear fans cannot:
1) Why is one of Russia's greatest and most highly respected, experienced and qualified tiger & bear experts, so adamant and certain that Ochkarik killed the huge male brown bear Chlamyda?
2) How come there's been NO SIGN, NO TRACE, NO NOTHING of this giant bear for 7 years in the Khabarovsk region since his disappearance???
3) How come the huge bear strangely just happened to completely vanish forever from the forest, around the same time Ochkarik came to meet the tigress Rashel and help her?
4) Why would such a major expert authority and biologist like Alexander Batalov risk his well-respected reputation by telling a "fabricated story" or lie???
5) How come for several years now, Batalov has repeatedly told this case to several different journalists and news reports?
6) And finally, if Ochkarik never killed the bear, then where the hell did this enormous male brown bear, described to have 'maniacal perseverance' , vanish too??
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1- Batalov said that Ochkarik probably killed Chlamyda. Nothing more than one man's opinion.
2- It is normal for a satellite bear to choose a tigress and to follow her, taking her kills, for a limited time period. Usually a matter of days or weeks. Also, with numerous human hunters moving into the area, with rifles, this often causes big male brown bears to leave an area. Consider also, big male bears are quite skillful at avoiding people.
3- The word you're looking for is coincidence.
4- Batalov is well known for telling stories to non-professional (on the subject of tigers and bears) people. He speaks more professionally to his peers.
5- Yet he never filled an official report nor did he present any evidence. Batalov has nothing more than an opinion.
6- Same question for the third time. You should read about the outlaw grizzlies of the American West (1800s) who were notorious for killing cattle, sheep, and other livestock. These bears had big rewards for anyone who could kill them. Some of them were active for years. Old Ephraim (also known as Old Three Toes) for example, eluded ranchers, bounty hunters, and professional hunters from 1911 until his death on August 22, 1923.
*Note: There is not even one single confirmed report, filed, peer reviewed, documented, and published of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear.
Any biologist, who can prove that a tiger has killed a healthy full-grown male brown bear will, without exception, file such a report.
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Post by brobear on Jul 26, 2024 8:19:19 GMT -5
Two more points for the fanboys... (1) No biologist, worth his salt, is ever going to announce that he is positive that a particular tiger stalked and killed a particular full-grown male brown bear unless he has strong evidence to back-up his claim. A hiker or a camper will do this. A hunter will do this; but that's not something that a highly educated biologist would announce. (2) An old veteran male brown bear is very good at avoiding people. Therefore, Chlamyda could still be in the area. Old Ephraim avoided ranchers, bounty hunters, and professional hunters, all of which continuously hunted him, for 12 years, in an environment much more open than the RFE. ____________________________ Show me a video of himself actually saying these things. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 30, 2024 8:45:31 GMT -5
A major rule change, courtesy of Warsaw:
His answer to this: "Male polar bears become fully grown at 11 years old while male brown bears become full grown between 9 to 10 years old on average."
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No .
Male brown bears become fully grown at 12 year old.
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My calculatuons: Male Brown Bear / Male human equivilant:
0 until his first year - cub / from baby to toddler to young child.
1 year until he reaches 2 - yearling / child roughly 8 yrs. old.
2 years old until he reaches 4.5 years old - adolescent or juvenile. / from 9 to 12 yrs. old.
4.5 years old until he reaches 8 - subadult. / teenage boy from 13 to 15 yrs. old.
8 years old until he reaches 12 - young adult./ teenage boy from 16 to 19 yrs. old.
12 years old until he reaches 20 - full-grown male bear. / from 20 to 60 yr. old man.
20 years old and after - elderly (over the hill).
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Post by brobear on Aug 5, 2024 9:11:36 GMT -5
Revamp:
1- Size and Weight: The average brown bear is larger and heavier than the average lion or tiger. The max brown bear is larger and heavier than the max lion or tiger. At equal HBL, an Ussuri brown bear has roughly a 200 pound weight advantage over an Amur tiger.
2- Strength and Leverage: The brown bear has far superior over-all strength than any big cat. Because of his broader build (feet further apart) the brown bear has superior leverage.
3- Grappling Ability: A bear has a greater range of motion in his arms (fore-limbs).
4- Intelligence: Bears are grouped among the smartest of mammals along with the great apes, elephants, and Cetaceans. Although the measuring of animal intelligence is not a fool-proof science, most biologists and animal trainers agree.
5- Bipedal Ability: Big cats often start a fight on their hind legs delivering paw swipes. Not even a great ape has greater bipedal ability than a bear.
6- Stamina: A cat has poor stamina due to roughly 20 million years of ambush predation. A brown bear has very good stamina. Doug Peacock once observed a grizzly running 10 miles non-stop, after which he remained active.
7- Endurance to Pain and Injury: There is no way to prove who has this advantage. Any experimentation would include animal cruelty. But, from my reading of the grizzly; the brown bear certainly has my vote.
8- Paw-Strike: To my knowledge, the force of the paw-strike of the lion, the tiger, and the brown bear has never been scientifically measured. However, considering that at size-parity (equal HB length) the bear is stronger, the bear has a greater range of motion in his arms, and the brown bear in particular has a shoulder hump of muscles which reinforces his upper-body strength above that of other bear species at equal size, there remains no lingering doubt that the brown bear wins this contest.
9- Durability/Girth: Being broader in build with more fat and muscle covering his inner vitals, the bear has this one. Brown Bear's overall more robust bone structure would provide good resistance to the big Cats' bites and paw swipes. Not only is the brown bear more durable in receiving a paw strike, but his paw is hard and resistant to injury when striking. He can put a deep dent onto a heavy-duty truck with no injury to his paw.
10- "Bulldog Build": There is a reason why among dogs, the bull-breeds are the fiercest fighters. Like a bulldog, a bear has a broad build which gives the impression of a short back. His slightly bowed legs and in-turned feet provides a superior grip (bear hug).
11- Plantigrade Posture: Being firmly planted on the ground rather than standing on his tippy-toes adds to the bear's superior stability.
12- Stability: Besides his plantigrade posture, the broad heavy build of the bear with his feet spaced apart makes him harder to knock down. We could compare a dining room table (bear) to a park bench (lion or tiger).
13- Short hind legs adds to stability and aids in grappling while fighting bipedal.
14- Tiny Eyes: A brown bear has relatively tiny eyes; a more difficult target.
15- Shoulder Hump (reinforces upper-body strength): this is why pound-for-pound, the brown bear is the strongest of bears.
16- Push Strength: While the big cat has superior pull strength, a bear has greater push strength. The big cat's superior pull strength is in his arms; developed for pulling down heavy herbivores. In a tug-o-war contest, the bear wins.
17- Weapons: A brown bear has longer claws, very strong, not dull but duller than those of a cat. These claws do more ripping than slicing, causing terrible wounds. His teeth are not short, but shorter than those of a big cat. Thick and deeply rooted, perfect for grappling. Rather than bite and hold like a big cat, the bear bites down and, using his hugely muscled neck, shakes his adversary bulldog fashion, causing tremendous damage beneath the skin.
18- Willingness to Fight Face-to-Face: This is a major advantage. Big cats are specialist predators - they are ambush predators. A big cat hates a face-to-face confrontation. This is the reason a big male tiger will most often walk away from even a female sloth bear when she musters-up the courage to stand her ground in defense. This is why a man is safe in tiger country when he wears a face mask on the back of his head. This is why lions will not attack cattle who has eyes painted onto their hind-quarters. This is the reason for the big V on the chest of the smaller Asiatic bears (sun bear, sloth bear, and moon bear). That bright white V is a warning sign for tigers.
A brown bear will go head-on against prey or adversary with no reluctance. Again - Revamp: 6/19/2024 These are some of the reasons that bears fare poorly when confronted by a bear. |
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Post by brobear on Aug 6, 2024 12:05:38 GMT -5
The notorious, radical, juvenile fanboy is posting more false information: Regarding body size, the image is correct. Amur and Bengal tigers are the same size, however, Amur tigers have slightly more massive skulls and paws. Regarding the weight range, the image/source is wrong. The average weight of mainland Bengal tigers (excluding the Sunderbans population) is 210 - 220 kg, (463 - 485 pounds) for adult males. The weight range of both Amur and Bengal tigers is up to at least 300 kg, or 320 kg. (661 to 705.5 pounds) Adults older than 5-6 years old weigh an average of 220 - 240 kg. (485 - 529 pounds) I think that 280 kg (617) is not the limit for an adult large male. One of these males was nicknamed "The Beast", an enormous tiger who rivaled the size of a huge male brown bear. Two other giant male tigers lived in the same National Park (Anyuisky), one from the Nilo channel, the other from the Tormasu River. Based on their heel widths, they certainly would have weighed well over 200 kg (441 pounds), my guess is, between 250 - 300 kg. (551 - 661 pounds) _____________________________________________________________________________________ (1) The heaviest male Amur tiger actually weighed - Dr. Feng Limin confirmed he had personally seen a wild male Amur tiger of 270 kg (596 pounds). (2) Actual tiger average weights: Average mature Amur tiger (historical) - 477.3 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (historical) - 303.1 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 385.81 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (contemporary) - 264.55 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (general) - 430 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (general) - 284.4 pounds. Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. Average mature Bengal tigress - 304.2 pounds. (it's doubtful that these historical averages can be verified)  |
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Post by brobear on Aug 8, 2024 9:55:55 GMT -5
It was written by the Fake Professor himself, quote; "Most posters assume adult male brown bears are out of the predatory reach of adult male tigers, but there's some doubt about this conclusion. It could be, as some experienced tiger biologists suggest, a male tiger has the best chance in a fight with an adult male brown bear, but the question is why biologists do not find adult male brown bears killed by tigers." "There's no question 'Odyr' killed an adult male brown bear in what seems to have been an open fight, but there might have been specific reasons. As far as I know, it was the only adult male brown bear he killed." "Also meaning an average adult male tiger and a, heavier and more robust, average adult male brown bear, dominationwise, seem to be on a kind of par. This means killing experience, large canines, agility, speed and aggression on one hand (Amur tigers) and robustness, weight, power and durability on the other (Ussuri brown bears) more or less compare in natural conditions." ________________________________________________________________________________- (1) Tigers do not stalk and ambush full-grown male brown bears. This is the reason biologists do not find adult male brown bears killed by tigers. (2) Peter Broekhuijsen (FP) claims that it has been confirmed that the tiger Odyr killed a full-grown male tiger. We have plenty of evidence that he did not: domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/1607/odyr-misha?page=1 _________________________________________________________________________________ ' My question to Peter; where is the peer reviewed, documented, filed, confirmed account? What evidence was peer reviewed and confirmed? _________________________________________________________________________________ Peter goes on to say... "I take Batalov, as experienced as they come, very serious, but it is a fact his conclusion about 'Chlamyda' and 'Ochkarik' seems to have been a result of deduction. He no doubt had very good reasons to get to his conclusion, but it's also possible 'Chlamyda', who no doubt knew about the interest of those trying to hunt him after he overplayed his hand with tigress 'Rachel', decided to go undercover for some time. Not easy for a giant like him, but you never know. Adult brown bears are very clever animals. In the end, my guess is Batalov could have been right. It's well known tigers tend to take things personally and 'Chlamyda' not only harrassed 'Rachel'. It seems he also visited Ochkarik's kills." _________________________________________________________________________________ In the case of the tiger Ochkarik and Chlamyda, there was absolutely no evidence that would cause you to believe that this tiger killed this big full-grown male brown bear. Peter, there was a time when you only accepted that which had been proven and confirmed. domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/1606/ochkarik-chlamida?page=1 |
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Post by brobear on Aug 10, 2024 11:34:15 GMT -5
Peter is still claiming that the tiger (named) Odyr killed a full-grown male brown bear. My questions for Peter: __________________________________________________________________ (1) Was the frozen carcass removed and studied by a biologist? (2) Were measurements of the carcass conducted? (3) Can you explain how a tiger and a brown bear can have a lengthy bloody struggle ending with the tiger completely uninjured? (4) Can you explain why this once-in-a-lifetime event occurred and no report was peer reviewed and filed? (5) Can you explain how one eyewitness noticed that the bear footprints did not match the size of the bear carcass? (6) Can you explain how the footprints looked fresh (easy to see) yet the carcass was snow-covered? (7) Granolah asked this question, Translation: Q："Hello, I heard recently that there was a tiger-bear fight in the reserve Do you have any more information about this bear?" The answer from M.P. Milezhik, Head of Protection Department. Sincerely yours, Bolshekhetsirskiy branch of the Federal Wildlife Refuge of the Priamur'e Nature Conservation Area. Reserve： "Hello, the bear's name was Misha, and he was about 3 years old. The tiger wasn't hurt in the battle." Seriously Peter; just because you cannot find a real incident of what you desperately wish would happen, it's not looking good on you to stoop so low. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ They could have at least taken the skull or some limb bones to be measured an analyzed. However; just as with the W.J. Jankowski Story and the Ochkarik and Chlamida tall tale, you have zero actual evidence. And yet, you are claiming this story to be a fact. |
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