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Post by brobear on Jul 8, 2022 5:30:38 GMT -5
Tigress Rachelle and Bear Chlamida   |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 7:16:04 GMT -5
Four points to remember:
1- Tiger hunt bears smaller than themselves. Tigers are full-time predators.
2- Bears do not hunt tigers. Bears are omnivores.
3- There is only a small number of adult male tigers confirmed killed by bears.
4- There is no adult male brown bear confirmed killed by a tiger.
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*Note: Only a few adult male tigers confirmed kill by bears because bears have no reason hunt tigers.
*Note: No adult male brown bear confirmed killed by a tiger because tigers do not hunt adult male brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 8:42:49 GMT -5
From the outstanding poster; vip.everyday answering a question directed to Warsaw... "Hello Warsaw, do you believe Ocharik the tiger killed Chlamid the huge brown bear?" From vip; "Curious situation. No evidence was presented in this case. There is no body, no signs of a fight. But on another occasion (November 2022), there is a corpse of a brown bear and traces of a struggle. But the scene and the body of the bear were not examined by experts (at least there was no report). Nothing is known about the bear, except for the size of the footprint, which does not correspond to the size of the body. Although it was possible to measure, for example, the skull of the bear and see the condition of its teeth. This would have given some necessary information. One gets the impression that such a hasty "throw-in" of information in the media has the sole purpose of advertising the reserve's employees. Thanks to this news, their country now knows about them. On the other hand, real scientists, such as Seryodkin or Goodrich, first checked everything and then wrote articles with details." _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ No biologist has filed a report stating that any of these three tigers actually killed a full-grown male brown bear, and I highly doubt that any of them did. 1- W.J. Jankowski report (1943) remains unconfirmed by biologists. 2- Batalov event (2017) remains unconfirmed by biologists. 3- Khabarovsk Territory event (2022) remains unconfirmed by biologists. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:10:08 GMT -5
About 'Ochkarik' killing Chlamid, the ridiculous Batalov event of 2017. Someone, with good intentions, stated that (quote) "was barely any evidence of the killing", (unquote). That is a joke. Actually there was no evidence of a killing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. First and foremost, no dead bear was found; not even a kill site. Absolutely nothing. There were traces of bear flesh in the tiger's droppings. But then, adult male Amur tigers occasionally kill and eat smaller bears. It was said that the tiger appeared to be well fed. Well, tigers do eat red deer and wild boar, either of which is a big meal for a tiger. The biggest argument they had was that Chlamid turned up missing. Well, there is nothing unusual about a bear relocating. Especially when human hunters move into the area; which just happens to have happened at this time. ________________________________________________________ If this were a court case, a murder trial, then Ochkarik would walk free. No dead body. No identification of the murder location. No murder weapon identified. No evidence whatsoever. It never happened.  Another fanboy fantasy. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:11:24 GMT -5
Quote, "There were traces of bear flesh in the tiger's droppings." Think about this. If Ochkarik had been gorging on the carcass of Chlamid for four or five days, his droppings would have been from 80% to 100% bear remains. Therefore, even that weak so-called evidence actually speaks out against the tiger killing the adult male bear. Actually, the tiger droppings is strong evidence that this so-called event is just a wild story - fake news. The fantasy... |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:12:39 GMT -5
I believe that if such incident took place, batalov would have reported that the tiger got injured which he never did. I mean , a tiger fighting a huge brown bear wouldn't just walk away unharmed. Good points here... |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:14:15 GMT -5
I believe that if such incident took place, batalov would have reported that the tiger got injured which he never did. I mean , a tiger fighting a huge brown bear wouldn't just walk away unharmed. Good point yz. In fact, the W.J. Jankowski tiger was not reported to have been injured by the "huge male brown bear" he had fought and killed. Neither was the Batalov tiger nor Odir of the Khabarovsk Territory. Strange that these tigers can fight a full-grown and very large male brown bear and walk away without a scratch. This alone should give people a reason to doubt the sincerity of those stories. The truth... |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:15:29 GMT -5
Good point yz. In fact, the W.J. Jankowski tiger was not reported to have been injured by the "huge male brown bear" he had fought and killed. Neither was the Batalov tiger nor Odir of the Khabarovsk Territory. Strange that these tigers can fight a full-grown and very large male brown bear and walk away without a scratch. This alone should give people a reason to doubt the sincerity of those stories. Yes exactly , It should give a reason to question them. Exactly... |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 9:46:27 GMT -5
Here is a prime example of how a fanboy creates a forum topic: Topic Title: Confirmed recent account of a huge male brown bear killed by a tiger First post starts with: Huge male brown bear killed and eaten by a tiger out of revenge This is the fanboy's version of the "Ochkarik the tiger and Chlamid the bear" story. Total bull-crap from beginning to end. TRUTH: No kill site was found. No dead bear was found. In fact, not one single shred of evidence to suggest that the bear was killed by the tiger. ______________________________________________________ We here at the Domain of the Bears never announce anything as confirmed until it has been properly confirmed. The Ochkarik and Chlamida story is total bull-crap from beginning to end. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 12:19:03 GMT -5
1943 - a hunter named W.J. Jankowski claims that he shot and killed a huge male tiger, the biggest he ever saw. He estimated the tiger at 700 pounds (317.51 kilo.). Obviously a huge over-estimation. He says that the tiger had killed a big male brown bear and that only the head and a paw was left of it. How then, would he know that the tiger had killed the bear. Obviously, the carcass had been there for a lengthy period of time. This incident was not confirmed for obvious reasons. ________________________________________________________________________ 2017 - This is a "he said-she said" report claiming that biologist Batalov said that the bear Mantle (Ochlamid) was killed by the tiger Ochlamid. Well, he never said that. There was no kill site found. There was no bear carcass found. And, a year later, in 2018, Mantle was seen again. Furthermore, a biologist will always file an official report, which Batalov did not do. ________________________________________________________________________ 2022 - Local newspapers reported a story claiming that a tiger had killed a huge male brown bear. As it turns out, nothing out of the ordinary happened. The tiger Odyr killed the usual tiger's brown bear prey, a three year old adolescent bear. The bear's name was Misha. Three big stories debunked. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 12:35:15 GMT -5
www.todaykhv.ru/news/incident/9372/This link is credited to Warsaw. If you guys look at the video comparison, Rachel is pretty small in comparison to Ockarik. Therefore, if Chamlid is 2 to 3 times the weight of Rachel, it is unlikely Chamlid is much bigger than the bespectacled male tiger. Quote; "And at the moment, the bear (we gave him the nickname Chlamyda, because he is incredibly huge) has moved away from her and is not chasing her, - Alexander Batalov, director of the Durminskoye forestry, told the correspondent of the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency ." Incredibly Huge! The "tiger who wears eye glasses" might be a big tiger; but they don't come this big.   (we gave him the nickname Chlamyda, because he is incredibly huge) |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 12:36:41 GMT -5
/\ The tiger in the picture above is Rachel, the tigress. True... |
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2023 12:37:31 GMT -5
That's a big bear over there. Chamlid's neck girth is probably as thick as that whole tigress body. No tiger comes close to that bear level of bulkiness. True |
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Post by brobear on Oct 10, 2023 5:00:25 GMT -5
A quote from "Elsewhere"... "Email from Alexander Batalov regarding the tiger 'Ochkarik' killing the huge male brown bear 'Chlamyda'. The poster 'Goodhope' received an email directly from biologist Alexander Batalov himself. In the email, Batalov confirms that the tiger Ochkarik did kill and eat the giant brown bear named Chlamyda who harassed the tigress Rashel back in 2017. ____________________________________________________________ First of all, where is this email? Why was it not shown? I will blatantly call this bullshit. How could Batalov possibly confirm that Ochkarik killed Chlamyda when there was not one single shred of evidence found and no eye witness. Not even a struggle heard off in the distance. NOTHING. FALSE INFORMATION. |
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Post by Everyday on Oct 12, 2023 4:56:38 GMT -5
And the tiger, according to the “story,” ate this big brown bear entirely, with all the large bones and skull, because there was nothing left at all that could be presented. Funny and aimed at uneducated readers of the local press. Seryodkin, of course, did not buy this “information.”
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Post by brobear on Oct 14, 2023 21:35:19 GMT -5
Again... A quote from "Elsewhere"... "Email from Alexander Batalov regarding the tiger 'Ochkarik' killing the huge male brown bear 'Chlamyda'.
The poster 'Goodhope' received an email directly from biologist Alexander Batalov himself. In the email, Batalov confirms that the tiger Ochkarik did kill and eat the giant brown bear named Chlamyda who harassed the tigress Rashel back in 2017.
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Batalov did not and could not confirm that the tiger "Ochkarik" killed the bear "Chlamyda".
My question; Why was the fanboy telling this lie not chastised by the Administration of that Big Cat forum?
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Post by Montezuma on Oct 16, 2023 2:02:10 GMT -5
Again... A quote from "Elsewhere"... "Email from Alexander Batalov regarding the tiger 'Ochkarik' killing the huge male brown bear 'Chlamyda'. The poster 'Goodhope' received an email directly from biologist Alexander Batalov himself. In the email, Batalov confirms that the tiger Ochkarik did kill and eat the giant brown bear named Chlamyda who harassed the tigress Rashel back in 2017. _______________________________________________________ Batalov did not and could not confirm that the tiger "Ochkarik" killed the bear "Chlamyda".
My question; Why was the fanboy telling this lie not chastised by the Administration of that Big Cat forum? Answer: Because that whole forum is based on big cat fantansy. You criticize cats or cat fans, you are ban; you rebuke bear or bear fans, you are acclaimed. The listlessness of admins and rumours of some member has irremediably spoiled that forum's reputation. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 18, 2023 4:54:23 GMT -5
Who to believe - two completely inexperienced, untrained, unqualified armchair "tiger experts", one a juvenile fanboy and the other a fake professor, or the real field experts/biologists who have dedicated their entire lives to studying and tracking wild Amur tigers in the Russian taiga?
The two armchair "tiger experts" claim each and every story they read of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear as a confirmed fact.
The field biologists say that there have yet to be even one single case of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear confirmed.
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Post by brobear on Oct 31, 2023 12:01:32 GMT -5
Who to believe - two completely inexperienced, untrained, unqualified armchair "tiger experts", one a juvenile fanboy and the other a fake professor, or the real field experts/biologists who have dedicated their entire lives to studying and tracking wild Amur tigers in the Russian taiga? The two armchair "tiger experts" claim each and every story they read of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear as a confirmed fact. The field biologists say that there have yet to be even one single case of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear confirmed. Just like I said; Listen to this armchair tiger fanboy.... ___________________________________________ Ochkarik, although obviously (being a male) larger than the tigress Rachel, was not a large tiger. Batalov estimated Ochkarik to weigh around 160 - 180 kg. So he was a medium-sized (below average) tiger. However, despite his moderate-size, he was a very powerful, confident and dominant male tiger and a known bear-killer. He successfully ruled and defended his territory for many years and was a great hunter. There's a video of Ochkarik climbing a tree hunting for black bears. Chlamida was a gigantic male brown bear of immense proportions. Although Batalov never estimated Chlamida's weight specifically, he did say he was "incredibly huge", hence his name - 'Chlamida'. If we consider the fact that the average adult male Ussuri brown bear weighs around 260 - 272 kg, its most likely Chlamida, being a giant bear, weighed 400+kg. Very large male Ussuri brown bears weigh up to 400 - 600 kg, especially if well-fed like Chlamida was. So Ochkarik killed a brown bear at least twice his own weight or likely more. The size difference (weight-wise) between Ochkarik and Chlamida was very significant. I found a picture of Ochkarik after he had killed and eaten Chlamida. Remember Batalov said that after killing and eating Chlamida, Ochkarik had fattened up a lot, his stomach was inflated. Here's the picture, notice how his stomach looks fat, he clearly ate a lot of bear: "The bespectacled tiger once killed and ate a brown bear that was chasing a tigress with a cub. After that, he was so inflated that Batalov could not at first understand what had happened. But then I found bear meat in tiger excrement." "(Photo No. 7 - the image was taken by a camera trap owned by Alexander Batalov. In the photo is a bespectacled tiger that ate a bear and therefore has a fat belly)."  |
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Post by brobear on Oct 31, 2023 12:17:45 GMT -5
Quotes for the juvenile tiger fanboy; " So Ochkarik killed a brown bear at least twice his own weight or likely more." / "Remember Batalov said that after killing and eating Chlamida, Ochkarik had fattened up a lot, his stomach was inflated."
*Fact; Over on WF they claim this scenario as an absolute fact even though there is zero evidence to back-up their claims.
*Question; Anyone here ever see this statement supposedly made by Batalov?
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By the way; tigers hunt and consume bear flesh - moon bears, adolescent brown bears, and sometimes even adult female brown bears; all taken from ambush. Bear material in his droppings and a fat belly is evidence that Ochkarik is a normal tiger that hunts and eats. Nothing more.
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