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Post by brobear on Jan 23, 2021 14:59:00 GMT -5
What predators might hunt and kill an ape?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 24, 2021 1:44:40 GMT -5
Crocs could be very dangerous to gorillas except for the simple fact that gorillas rarely have to drink water from lakes or streams. They get all their water and moisture from their food. The vegetation they eat is mostly composed of water.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2021 14:15:47 GMT -5
An African cheetah standing next to an eastern gorilla.
Cheetah - no threat - period.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2021 14:20:16 GMT -5
King Kodiak I adjusted your requested comparison between an African leopard and a western gorilla; both specimens had to be a little bigger. Will a leopard ambush a silverback gorilla? Rarely under particular conditions - such as the great ape being sound asleep when attacked.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 25, 2021 23:10:48 GMT -5
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Post by tom on Jan 26, 2021 10:37:49 GMT -5
This is my view-point of the leopard/gorilla relationship... The leopard is a full-time predator. Juvenile gorillas and adult females are subject to ambush if the opportunity presents itself. The silverback is basically unafraid of leopards. Every evening, he builds a fresh nest on the ground at the base of the trees where his mates and his young ones sleep in relative safety. The bull gorilla will defend his troop if a leopard happens upon them. Any ambush upon a silverback gorilla must assuredly be extremely rare. I would have to agree here. It would have to be an extreme circumstance for a male Leopard to even think about taking on a Silverback face to face. What about a single Lion? If for instance they co-existed the same habitat would a single Lion prey upon a Silverback? what about a hunting party of Lions? Opinions?
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Post by nocapakabl on Jan 27, 2021 3:25:28 GMT -5
Actually, they have killed silverback gorillas. Do they do it often? No. one of the best accounts of silverbacks and leopards fighting to the death was described by george schaller in his study 'Last Stand Counterattack and Chutzpah Living Primates‘ where he reported: some other accounts: A account Of a leopard killing three adult silverbacks in a period of 6 months: ^ was originally posted on world of animals theworldofanimals.proboards.com/thread/349/leopard-panthera-pardus
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Post by nocapakabl on Jan 27, 2021 3:29:11 GMT -5
“a silverback gorilla and a leopard were both found dead from mutually inflicted wounds”.
And this was my response:
it is automatically assumed that the leopard attacked a sleeping gorilla or by ambush. And even then, the leopard still died.
You sure the gorilla was sleeping? Unless the source points it out, it's a vague Assumption (IMO).
I Agree, a leopard killing a silverback gorilla is a rare occurrence; Most of the times Females or young gorillas are targetted.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 3:49:46 GMT -5
I agree with Reply #56. It is my personal opinion that under the right conditions, a determined leopard can and will ambush a big silverback gorilla. I found it interesting when I first learned that ( in theory - which I agree with ) the reason that the big cats of Africa and Asia often become man-eaters, while neither the jaguar nor the cougar ever becomes a habitual man-eater, is the fact that in both Africa and Asia, the big cats are hunters of large primates. But I have questions: The silverbacks killed by leopards; were they prime healthy bull apes or were they old or sickly? What percentage of a jungle leopard's diet consists of gorilla and chimpanzee? What percentage of gorilla deaths are caused by leopards? *Edit and add: according to the chart on Reply #40, gorillas are stalked, killed, and consumed by leopards more that any other primate.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 3:59:54 GMT -5
It says "probable". And the thing is they are going by the leopard's faeces, this is not a reliable method because they are just assumimg the leopard killed the gorilla because it eat it. Same thing happens with tigers and bears alot of times. So, this is not confirmed. Also, no description of a fight, this means ambush or sleeping gorilla.
It says, "adult mountain gorillas", not Silverback gorillas. Most likely females. Again, its hunting, ambush or sleeping gorillas.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 4:04:59 GMT -5
“a silverback gorilla and a leopard were both found dead from mutually inflicted wounds”.
And this was my response:
it is automatically assumed that the leopard attacked a sleeping gorilla or by ambush. And even then, the leopard still died.
You sure the gorilla was sleeping? Unless the source points it out, it's a vague Assumption (IMO).
I Agree, a leopard killing a silverback gorilla is a rare occurrence; Most of the times Females or young gorillas are targetted. If there is no description of a fight, if its just predation, or kill, or attacked, it is automatically assumed it was by ambush or a sleeping gorilla for the simple fact that leopards are strictly ambush predators and will basically never attack head on.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 4:12:17 GMT -5
But you saw the biomass of the gorillas killed? 78 kg (171 lbs). Obviously subadult and female gorillas.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 4:43:33 GMT -5
We know that when a tiger kills a bear, he always kills with a bite on the back of the bear's neck at the base of the skull. Not sometimes; not most of the time; but every time. I would assume when a leopard kills a large primate, his methods ( from tens-of-millions of years of evolution ) is precise; the same killing method every time. ( IMO ) if we observe a leopard killing a baboon, the same killing method is likely used.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 4:49:18 GMT -5
Only took a minute to find. A bite to the base of the neck ( as I suspected ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 4:55:29 GMT -5
Reply #63: and the leopard attacked the baboon on the floor, by the back.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 5:13:08 GMT -5
My thoughts, at this point, would be that it is unlikely that a leopard would choose to ambush a big healthy silverback who is wide awake and alert. Those big bull apes always appear so relaxed in their natural environment. Not like a deer or an antelope that perks up at every little noise or movement. A silverback gorilla does not live in fear of predators. If it does happen, then it must indeed be a very rare occurrence.
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Post by brobear on Jan 28, 2021 4:29:26 GMT -5
Reply #63: and the leopard attacked the baboon on the floor, by the back. I just watched this video again. First of all, it appears that a big cat will use the same killing method on a large primate as on a bear; a bite to the base of the neck. But I also noticed, in this particular incident, the baboon appears to be wounded and helpless before the leopard takes advantage. Perhaps badly injured from a fight with a fellow baboon.
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Post by tom on Jan 28, 2021 11:24:57 GMT -5
My thoughts, at this point, would be that it is unlikely that a leopard would choose to ambush a big healthy silverback who is wide awake and alert. Agreed. A silverback Gorilla is a far far cry from a Baboon. Young Gorillas or possibly a female maybe. I cannot bring myself to believe a Leopard in his own right mind would risk such an attempt on a Silverback.
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Post by nocapakabl on Jan 29, 2021 6:27:10 GMT -5
Here is a excellent chart on Predator interactions with primates; all the leopard predation attempts on gorillas are marked with a redline by myself: One account i find really interesting is the one where a Adult male gorilla was chased and attacked; not very common.
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