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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 1:10:57 GMT -5
Does this belong to this topic? Dimitri Pikunov, email to Big bonns, "Some male bears can be the most powerful and ferocious adverseries for any animal. I have lost friends.....the tiger is no match for him."
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 1:32:50 GMT -5
MontezumaOf course it belongs here. But where did you find that?
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 1:34:31 GMT -5
MontezumaOf course it belongs here. But where did you find that? On WAW, a long time ago. I posted it on quora. I have only this left. Not the whole image, 😕. How is it?
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 1:37:56 GMT -5
Montezuma Of course it belongs here. But where did you find that? On WAW, a long time ago. I posted it on quora. I have only this left. Not the whole image, 😕. How is it? Show me the link to that post at WAW, you remember?
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 1:41:19 GMT -5
On WAW, a long time ago. I posted it on quora. I have only this left. Not the whole image, 😕. How is it? Show me the link to that post at WAW, you remember?No, i found it mounths ago. I think its in the thread about peter. This is also present there, Email to Big bonns from Kay Whinshi, "Tigers dislike the freezing waters so taiga and large bears often attack and trap tigers towards the lakes." Attachments:
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 1:53:33 GMT -5
Oh no, thanks you corrected. I was using this as email.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 1:58:15 GMT -5
Oh no, thanks you corrected. I was using this as email. You were right, both statements, by Kay Wanishi and Dimitri Pikunov where emails to Big Bonns, i had forgotten, here is the original post by Peter, very good bro:
PETER
4 - Trainers and researchers.
There was only one trainer I interviewed who had some experience with both tigers and bears. Although he was impressed with tigers, he thought the outcome of a fight between a male (Amur) tiger and a male bear of similar size would be unpredictable. Researchers seem to have a different opinion. Kay Wanishi, in an email to Bonns (on the thread Ursus arctos lasiotus vs Panthera tigris altaica), stated
"... Large male Bears are not contested by Tigers ... ". She saw large males as "... fearful critters which pose real dangers to all animals and staff during the thicker foliage of the summer. Large male Bears are exceedingly dangerous animals and not something the tiger would contest. There is one case of a good sized male Bear killed by a Tiger in its den which was reported in 1951, but I am not aware of other cases. Tigers dislike the freezing waters of the Taiga, ..., and have been attacked by large Bears which have attempted to ttrap them at the waters edge. A Bear is reported to try to smother the deadly weapons of the Tiger by bringing his weight down ...with a large jolt from a standing position. This possibly could injury the Tigers back or legs. I think it is reasonable that a Tiger could assault a good Bear from the rear, however ... ".
Dimitri Pikunov, in his mail to Bonns, which was posted on the thread 'Mail from Dimitri Pikunov', stated
" ... some Brown Bear ... can be extremely fiersome animals and are not on the Tigers list for a prey animal. Such a Brown Bear which decides not to flee the angry report of a Tiger warning will indeed win a fight with a Tiger of similar size. There have been several events recorded of fights and several mauled or killed Tigers owing to savage attacks by some of these Bears which are even more concern to the human traveller and field researcher. Very simplified, the 2 ... can be quite well matched in tooth and claw but the Bear always wears the Tiger out. It is a similarly powerful animal but more durable and very difficult to kill. The biggest threat to the Tiger is exhaustion. It is concerned with a surprise killing ... but is stress induced during a fight with its own kind or Bear and may die more readily from this than from the wounds it directly receives. Tigers have a tendency to shut down from rapid exhaustion more so than the wounds it may receive and here the Bear will take advantage ... ".
" ... Some male Bears can be amongst the most powerful and ferocious adversaries for any animal. I have lost friends ... and the Tiger is no match for him ... ".
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalsversesanimals/male-brown-bears-are-not-out-of-of-the-predatory-r-t1991-s310.html#p34583
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 2:00:18 GMT -5
Well, thats great. More opinions from experts favouring the bears over tigers. Peter at the last said that according to these large bears dominate large tigers. Wow!
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 2:02:26 GMT -5
Well, thats great. More opinions from experts favouring the bears over tigers. Peter at the last said that according to these large bears dominate large tigers. Wow! Yeah, and i had already posted that in this forum see here:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/31423/thread
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 2:04:45 GMT -5
Well, thats great. More opinions from experts favouring the bears over tigers. Peter at the last said that according to these large bears dominate large tigers. Wow! Yeah, and i had already posted that in this forum see here:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/31423/threadBut, the email from experts favouring bears have came to their real place.😎
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 2:06:43 GMT -5
Well, thats great. More opinions from experts favouring the bears over tigers. Peter at the last said that according to these large bears dominate large tigers. Wow! And this coming from a tiger fan, but of course, a reliable and smart tiger fan, not a fanatic.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 10, 2021 2:09:54 GMT -5
Every smart tigerfan will always favour the bear like peter etc while a smart bearfan will never go for tiger. It shows knowledgeable people favour bears either from bear, tiger or lion side.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 2:13:27 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Apr 10, 2021 4:58:07 GMT -5
Not sure if we have this or not - from Boxingman: David was involved in the animal face of on discovery channel. He is a well known cat trainer and especially lions but he has worked with all-kinds of big cats. There is a program about him on national geographic at the moment were he meets wild lions from 5-6 meters. David clearly favoured the bear against the tiger and said that the power alone would crush any male tiger easy...He said big male bears has no equals among predators...This man is a cat man but he can see logic.
David is a educated zoology researcher and famous for his work on big cats....He said on animal face of that a big bear would smash any tiger easy and we all could see that the big bear crushed the tiger easy. David Salmoni has himself been attacked by a male lion he was training...
Talented zoologist and world-class big cat trainer, Dave Salmoni, spends three months completely unarmed with a pride of wild lions in Africa....
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Post by brobear on Apr 10, 2021 5:08:02 GMT -5
Posted by aussichick to BigBonns - A final possible answer to some of our questions before leaving for the final time. www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalsversesanimals/a-final-possible-answer-to-some-of-our-questions-b-t395.html All, No ill feelings at all but i have decided its time for me to wrap things up. I guess at 40 i am just getting a little too long in the toothy pegs for this stuff and need to spend more time with other things.....kids being one of them. This move over with the site has created the ideal time to break clean then, given i had been thinking of doing so for a while now. Its also cool that i have no major spats going off with goof balls or other unsavouries....strewth, i must be getting old! I also leave you with a small report which might just be about the best answer to our questions as we are going to get. (Ursus, i saved it for here buddy rather than in our last PM post!) This report comes from a famous Animal actors group working out of LA. They work with a pair of 500lb Tigers, a Big male Lion and a 600lb Grizzly at just shy of 7ft tall. Their lead hand Dan will often wrestle with all the animals to get them use to humans and grapple and release commands.....so i wrote in the obvious questions. Ursus....why in the hell did we not think of this before!? Heres the mail reply. Steve, when working with the 2 Tigers there is little to test the human with its sideways thrusting of the front legs but they will instinctively grapple you with the jaws and try to turn you or bare their weight down. A firm bite can be quite excruciating even with padding, and we need to call release if they get too enthusiastic. They are also sneaky and will take your down from behind without ever showing a mood for doing so. Lions are completely different and flick out with their paws constantly roaring and moaning. They only use the jaws when you go down. The Grizzly is alltogether a different proposition and will bare his weight down on you and flatten you down. He will grab you and toss you down. He his easily stronger and we always concern ourselves with his mauling. Grabbed in, is like being in a furnace such is the stiffling hair and his body heat and he will annoyingly drop his weight to put you where he wants. There is no way to wrestle a Grizzly of this size, you just aim to make it look good for as long as possible. In my opinion, a Lion or Tiger attacking from behind will result in a dead Grizzly but there is no way that the Cats can win if wrestling up front, especially the Lion with his hitting tactic. As Regard Lion and Tiger we would say Tiger simply because our own animals are slightly the larger and stronger. They tend to place both paws down on their adversary and bare their weight down similar to the Grizzly which may advantage them with a Lion. Equally, our Lion can keep a Tiger away from grappling by hitting out. Our Tigers lose interest and wander off but we always concern ourselves with their trickery that they may attack the Lion without warning. Lions tend to be wary of Grizzly bears for some unknown reason but will round on Tiger confrontation. It maybe because they simply protect prides against other similar pack hunters like other Lions but do not recognize Grizzly or maybe they fear them. Tigers may probe an attack at a Grizzly with their usual sneaky behaviour and kill one but would lose a wrestling match rather easily. We live in fear of generating anger in a Grizzly to the point at which a Bigcat normally behaves. Warm Regards Dan.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 10, 2021 8:07:30 GMT -5
Not sure if we have this or not - from Boxingman: David was involved in the animal face of on discovery channel. He is a well known cat trainer and especially lions but he has worked with all-kinds of big cats. There is a program about him on national geographic at the moment were he meets wild lions from 5-6 meters. David clearly favoured the bear against the tiger and said that the power alone would crush any male tiger easy...He said big male bears has no equals among predators...This man is a cat man but he can see logic. David is a educated zoology researcher and famous for his work on big cats....He said on animal face of that a big bear would smash any tiger easy and we all could see that the big bear crushed the tiger easy. David Salmoni has himself been attacked by a male lion he was training... Talented zoologist and world-class big cat trainer, Dave Salmoni, spends three months completely unarmed with a pride of wild lions in Africa.... Nope, never seen this before, i didn't even know Dave Salmoni participated in Animal face-off, he does not visibly appear on the bear vs tiger episode though. Here it says he appeared in the episodes of anaconda vs jaguar, leopard vs gorilla, and elephant vs rhino:
animalfaceoff.fandom.com/wiki/Dave_Salmoni
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Post by brobear on Apr 10, 2021 13:42:41 GMT -5
Reply #40 Dan says: "In my opinion, a Lion or Tiger attacking from behind will result in a dead Grizzly but there is no way that the Cats can win if wrestling up front, especially the Lion with his hitting tactic." *Another animal trainer ( Clyde Beatty ) once believed that a big cat would probably kill a bear face-to-face, until he witnessed his first big cat vs bear fight. This trainer is also wrong ( about attacking from behind), but has never actually witnessed a big cat ambushing a full-grown brown bear.
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Post by kesagake on Apr 13, 2021 3:25:50 GMT -5
How about Dale Miquelle account saying that Bears pose threat even to male Tigers?
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 13, 2021 3:51:30 GMT -5
How about Dale Miquelle account saying that Bears pose threat even to male Tigers? Lets see what king kodiak says. He will decide.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 13, 2021 4:52:46 GMT -5
See: Debate: "Male Amur Tiger vs Female Ussuri Brown Bear" and "Amur tiger vs polar bear sow" here at "Bear Predation and Face-Off Topics". I checked every poll on the domain of the bears, world of animals and Carnivora. We have won most people for our side by giving more reason and it resulted in the bears victory. Bears dominate big cats in wild, captivity and even in polls. Many cat enthusiast/fans will vote for a bear with a decent weight advantage.
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