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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 10:49:58 GMT -5
However, based on plenty of hard evidence I've seen and read about, there's absolutely no doubt that adult male brown bears, including large males, are certainly on the tigers menu. There are just too many reliable accounts and sources that indicate this. It doesn't matter which frequency adult male brown bears are killed at, the fact that sometimes they do get hunted, killed, and eaten by tigers, confirms that even large male brown bears are prey for tigers. __________________________________________________________
Wrong in so many ways. There is not one single confirmed account of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear. The W.J. Jankowski Story - 1943. The 1951 Tatibe River tigress - 1951. About M20/T-20/Dale/Dima/Misha killing a large bear - 1997. Ochkarik and Chlamida - 2017. Odyr and Misha - 2022. _________________________ W.J. Jankowski, a hunter, shot and killed a large male tiger which he claimed to have found feeding on a bear carcass (species not identified). 1943. No story here. We have the word of a hunter that the tiger had been feeding on a bear carcass. _________________________
8 years later, in 1951, a tigress killed a 5-year old sub-adult brown bear weighing an estimated 375 pounds. Only thing newsworthy about this event was that a tigress had ambushed and killed the oldest and heaviest male brown bear ever killed by a tiger - thus far confirmed - if the bear was a male. _________________________
46 years later, in 1997, a large male tiger had acquired a taste for bear flesh and a reputation as "The Bear Killer". He had killed numerous adolescent brown bears and several adult she-bears - all weighing well below his own weight. No real news here. _________________________
20 years later, in 2017, a large male brown bear was living within a particular location. As hunters began moving in, the bear was not seen again. Nothing unusual in this story, other than the reaction of tiger fanboys jumping to unrealistic conclusions. No evidence of a tiger killing a full-grown male brown bear. No bear carcass found. No kill site found. No battle scars seen on tiger. No news here. _________________________
5 years later, in 2022, an adult male tiger is claimed to have killed a male brown bear - frozen carcass of the 3-year-old juvenile bear on location. Footprints of a larger bear found nearby. While the frozen carcass is covered in ice and snow, the footprints appear fresh with no snowfall on them. No real story here.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 10:54:57 GMT -5
Vaillant also stated: "There is no creature in the taiga that is off limits to the tiger." He notes that Amur tigers eat everything from salmon, ducks, wolves to adult brown bears. ____________________________________________________________
True. The tiger even stalks, ambushes, and kills Ursus arctos - the brown bear. All except for the adult males.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 10:57:28 GMT -5
V.G. Yudin (biologist, tiger ecologist & senior researcher) reports that black and brown bears are regularly hunted by tigers in summer. And reported that LARGE bears are prey for adult male tigers.
DIET OF LARGE PREDATORS ( ON THE EXAMPLE OF THE TIGER ): METHODOLOGICAL ANALYSIS - 2008 V.G. Yudin
"The badger (a numerous, widespread and accessible species), the raccoon dog, hares (white hare and Manchurian), birds and other small animals, that in summer, along with roe deer and bears (Himalayan and Brown), take on the main pressure of tiger predation." ___________________________________________________________ No one here in the Domain has ever claimed that tigers do not ambush and kill brown bears. A large bear could be a 300 pound black bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 10:59:21 GMT -5
"An adult male (tiger) has physical access not only to bull deer, but even to large bears and billhooks (large, mature male wild boar)." ________________________________________________________________________ Obviously, the meaningless word "large" excites you. More adult male wild boars are killed by brown bears than by tigers.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:05:08 GMT -5
When Amur tigers hunt brown bears, they usually prefer to target adult female brown bears, than adult male brown bears. Why? because a female brown bear (150-200 kg) will provide the tiger with a good amount of meat for a week, but also poses less risk, and a higher chance of a quick kill. And even then, in some cases, large female brown bears can put up a tough, prolonged fight before being killed. _____________________________________
Fact; when a tiger goes hunting, he is hunting meat. Whichever he finds first; deer, boar, bear, or other. If he blunders upon an adult female brown bear, he will ambush her if the opportunity is there. He would also welcome a moon bear or an adolescent brown bear. If he happens upon a full-grown male brown bear, he will avoid the bear and continue hunting.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:08:22 GMT -5
Although male tigers are more than capable of killing even the largest male brown bears in a head-on fight, and by ambush, hunting adult male brown bears (265 - 280 kg average weight) on a regular basis significantly increases the chances of a fight taking place or injuries, which a tiger, as a solitary predator, cannot afford to do regularly. So hunting adult female brown bears more often makes more sense for a tiger, as they (adult female brown bears) are large animals, but easier to kill than an adult male brown bear who is significantly heavier than an average male tiger (200 kg). So that's why there's no proof of tigers hunting adult male brown bears on a "regular basis". __________________________________________________________________________
As of this day; 9/12/2024 - we have no confirmed account of a tiger ever ambushing a full-grown male brown bear. Stop writing fiction.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:09:54 GMT -5
In spite of the adult male brown bears weight advantage, they are, no doubt, sometimes hunted and killed by tigers, as there are several reliable cases documented by biologists, rangers, and hunters of Amur tigers killing mostly large male brown bears. _______________________________________________
No, there isn't.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:15:55 GMT -5
S.P. Kucherenko has, in several cases, personally found the remains of large brown bears (200-300 kg) killed and eaten by tigers: __________________________________________________________ *Again; a tiger will not pass-up a free meal if he discovers the carcass of a dead bear. Kucherenko never said that he witnessed the tiger killing the bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:19:04 GMT -5
"Our numerous observations have also shown that an adult tiger eats a piglet of average fatness (about 30 kilograms) or half a two-year-old sow in one sitting. A tiger usually eats a red deer or a wild boar weighing 150-200 kilograms in a week. The animal lives for 8-10 days near a crushed large bear (weighing 200-300 kg, 2-3 'centners')." ________________________________________________ So, this tiger was lucky enough to find a bear killed by a bigger bear.... or died from some other causes as mentioned above.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:28:01 GMT -5
"Of all animals, only a large brown bear can overcome it. And even then, the victims are usually young, not yet strong tigers or tiger cubs. Even a large bear will not take an adult tiger. On the contrary, I have encountered large bears killed and eaten by a tiger. An average tiger is always stronger than an average bear." _________________________________________________________ An tigress will sometimes foolishly attempt to defend her adolescent cubs, or she will foolishly try to defend a carcass when her cubs are at risk of starvation. A young adult tiger, like a teenage boy, can be very foolish. This is why young adult tigers are sometimes killed by brown bears. A full-grown male tiger is wise enough not to ambush an adult male brown bear or to accept a challenge from one over a carcass. Full grown male tigers have been chased, caught, and killed by full-grown male brown bears. "An average adult male tiger is always stronger than an average adult female bear." - not necessarily true, but the tiger is usually successful when ambushing her.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:29:40 GMT -5
According to Kucherenko's personal (and numerous) observations, adult male brown bears certainly fall prey to tigers from time to time. He's seen multiple cases. Note, 200-300 kg is in the weight range of fully-grown adult male brown bears. Also, just like biologists Aramilev and Dunishenko said, Kucherenko said even a large brown bear cannot defeat an adult male tiger. __________________________________________________
The only thing he *might have observed are dead bear remains.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:33:52 GMT -5
Here's another confirmed case from a scientific study on Amur tiger predation. This case strongly suggests that the tiger hunted and killed an adult male brown bear. Why? because the male bear was able to fend off the tigers initial attack, a young brown bear wouldn't have been able to. Young brown bears are easy pickings for a tiger.
"In winter 1982, L.V. Kirsta, chief forester of the Reserve, and A.D. Saiko observed a tiger chasing a male brown bear for more than 500 meters. Attacking the bear running away along the valley of the key from the terrace of the narrow end of the watershed and failing to kill it, the tiger jumped hundreds of meters to intercept the bear, from where it made a new ambush attack, trying to claw its neck. As a result, the tiger managed to capture the male bear." _________________________________________________________ Male Brown Bear / Male human equivalent:
0 until his first year - cub / from baby to toddler to young child. 1 year until he reaches 2 - yearling / child roughly 8 yrs. old. 2 years old until he reaches 4.5 years old - adolescent or juvenile. / from 9 to 12 yrs. old. 4.5 years old until he reaches 8 - subadult. / teenage boy from 13 to 15 yrs. old. 8 years old until he reaches 12 - young adult./ teenage boy from 16 to 19 yrs. old. 12 years old until he reaches 20 - full-grown male bear. / from 20 to 60 yr. old man. 20 years old and after - elderly (over the hill).
*Probably a sub-adult brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:36:04 GMT -5
This was a clear-cut case of a tiger persistently hunting down a male brown bear and killing him. Again, the fact that the bear was able to fend off the tigers initial attack, suggests that it was an adult male brown bear. ________________________________________
A sloth bear less than half the weight of a large male tiger can fend-off his attack more often than not.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:40:07 GMT -5
In his book, biologist Kucherenko recollects a factual account of a tigress that deliberately stalked and killed a large, adult male brown bear much larger than herself. Judging by the description, the tigress was clearly very skilled and experienced at killing bears. This is an eyewitness account from a very seasoned and hereditary hunter named Andrey Efremovich, who saw a tigress hunt and kill a big male brown bear in autumn. He personally told this incident to biologist Kucherenko. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Here we have yet another tiger tale told by a hunter. This is like asking a fisherman about the size of the one that got away. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Stories about the meetings with the ruler of the Ussuri taiga. Finally, stories about the great male brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 12, 2024 11:48:16 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2024 5:45:54 GMT -5
WF quote: "Amur tigers have been hunting bears for many thousands of years. And just in a century's worth of literature, we already have numerous accounts of tigers hunting and killing large brown bears, and interestingly, most of which were large male brown bears killed and eaten." __________________________________________________________________________ This is not a typo, nor is it a mistake. This is a bald-faced lie which myself and the other moderators here at the Domain would never allow. False information (lies) are repeatedly coming out of WF. Until there is a confirmed account of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear, you (and your mentor) should stop spreading your opinions and calling them facts.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2024 5:51:14 GMT -5
WF quote: "So imagine, throughout many millennia, there must have been hundreds, if not, thousands of adult male brown bears hunted, killed and eaten by tigers in the extremely vast and remote Amur-Ussuri taiga forests." ____________________________ Very unlikely (imo). There must have been a time period, within the beginning roughly one-million years ago, when tiger after tiger after tiger were crushed by adult male brown bears, and the tiger population was noticeably lowered, that tigers became aware that adult male brown bears are far too dangerous to be considered as prey animals.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2024 5:56:06 GMT -5
WF quote, "Modern scientific studies & research shows that Amur tigers mainly prey on adult bears. And some of the killed bears were large, similar in size to their killers (adult male tigers). And of course, we have the most recent case of a medium-sized male tiger 'Odyr' who hunted and killed a large 'impressive sized' adult male brown bear in a fight (November, 2022)." _____________________________________________________ Again.... when a tiger goes hunting, he is hunting meat. His top choices are deer and wild boar, but he might decide to ambush a bear if he blunders into one. He will just as quickly ambush a 3-year-old bear as he would an adult she-bear. The tiger will NOT ambush a full-grown male brown bear. About the tiger called Odyr - domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/1735/odyr-misha-2022?page=1
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2024 6:03:19 GMT -5
WF quote; "According to old and modern scientific literature and research (all biologists and researchers agree): "Amur tigers prey on adult brown bears"... not adult "female" brown bears, but biologists say: "adult brown bears". Biologists have never excluded adult male brown bears as prey for tigers. I've never seen anywhere (no book, no scientific study, no article, etc) where an actual biologist who studies wild Amur tigers and bears, has stated that adult males, including large males, brown bears are "immune" to tiger predation. Nowhere." _______________________________________________
A biologist says that a tiger will ambush even large adult brown bears because everyone "in the know" (biologists and other professionals) knows that tigers do not view adult male brown bears as prey animals. For the scientific community, its simply a well known fact - common knowledge.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2024 6:06:21 GMT -5
WF quote; "All biologists agree that "Amur tigers are the main natural enemy and predator of adult brown bears" in the south of the Far East (Amur-Ussuri taiga)." ________________________________________________
Are you certain that you asked every single one of them? Not enough brown bears are killed by tigers to noticeably effect their numbers.
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