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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 28, 2020 12:24:16 GMT -5
Exactly. Difference is the tiger is expected to kill a female sloth bear easily basically 100% of the time. A bengal tiger more than double the weight killing a small female sloth bear is not an accomplishment. The female sloth bear that made the male tiger retreat is an accomplishment and deserves a trophy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 5:13:28 GMT -5
Which opinion brother? You mean that lion, bear and tiger, who Is better hunter. Is that one? Which is the better fighter between bears and big cats? That is the question. Currently, my phone battery is going to be dead. I will paste my response here that I wrote in the 'Bears general' thread. A proof that why is bear better hunter (killer):- This is a well-known statement that a "Lion and tiger is a better hunter than bear." --But I tend to disagree with that. Because:- When it comes to hunting so there are two types:- 1. Ambush hunting 2. Head-on hunting Ambush hunting In this hunting, big cats are designed the perfect. The have agility, soft paws, good sight and flexible body. Both tigers and lion are masters in this tactic especially the tiger. As we all know that tiger is classified as a strict ambush hunter and will never attack in head on attack. Bears are poor in this tactic and are not designed for this type of hunting. Head-on hunting Interestingly, bears are superior in this type of hunting. As big cats are ambusher so they are bad in this. For example, tiger kill sloth bears in ambush but back off when the hunt becomes head on with the bear beacuse the tiger is not designed for this hunting. Tigers are also known to be beaten by many animals in face off but have killed gaurs in ambush. So in the face-off topic the tiger loses and is whipped out. Tiger is only the winner in ambush fight. Face-off, tiger out. Now there remains only the lion and the bear. Bears as are known to kill large mammals in face-off fights. In face-off hunting the bear is matchless but the lion is also known to kill buffaloes in head on hunt. Note lion's ambush and pride advantage is excluded. To clarify this situation, we have further two more types of head-on hunting:- 1. Fleeing-prey hunt 2. Attacking-prey hunt (A) Fleeing-prey hunt This is a well know fact that anything that flees becomes vulnerable. It is often said that 'Jo dar gia wo maar gia' ( one who fears will die). In wild, every prey who feared from the predator will be teared by the predator. Suze does not matter when fear is making the prey flee. Lion take the buffalo's fleeing opportunity in face-off hunting. We have seen that lions sometimes kill a buffaloes bravely in the head on attack but note that what is the situation of the buffalo. If the buffalo is running then absolutely the lion will attack it from behind, approach to the neck and strangulte it to death. Bears can also do that by first catching and then breaking the spine or neck. (B) Attacking-prey hunt So both the lion and bear passed the fleeing-prey hunt topic and got full numbers in that exam! (Lol) But now that who will prevail in this scenario where the fleeing prey becomes attacking prey. First see the lion, In many videos you have seen that lions are killed by attack of buffaloes. Fleeing buffaloes completely become invincible if they stand their ground. In this stage the lions faces the horns of the bovid instead of the buffalo's back if the bovid is fleeing. Lion are always killed by attacking buffaoes. In this the lion fails. Now come to the bears. Bears have been known to perform better than lions in this prey attack hunt. The vest example could be found in spanish bull vs grizzly bears. Although that was not hunt yet that proved that a bear can kill an attacking bull which a lion cannot. Hunting an attacking thing is more dangerous than anyother type of hunt. Bear has prevailed in this hunt. Conclusion:- We see the better and more risky hunter topic members were a single lion, tiger and a bear. The tiger won from the stealth hunting which was the least risky hunting. The tiger only scored in the ambush once but further failed in head-on hunt. So both the lion and bear surpassed the tiger. Lion and bear came into the head-on hunt topic. Here both these beast qualified in the fleeing-prey hunt and went further to the attacking-prey hunt. In this the bear won and the lion lost. (All reason given above).So finally we see that:- 1#...Tiger is only an ambush hunter. This predator hunt with least risk, least danger and attack unfairly. 2#...Lion is risky and hunt dangerously the fleeing prey but is defeated by attacking bovid which shows that lions lose hunt if bovid attack. 3#...Bear are not ambush hunters. They hunt and kill both fleeing and attacking bovids. This proves that a bear is a better hunter than a lion or tiger when the prey in taken in a fair attack (non-ambush condition).
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2021 7:46:37 GMT -5
1#...Tiger is only an ambush hunter. This predator hunt with least risk, least danger and attack unfairly.
2#...Lion is risky and hunt dangerously the fleeing prey but is defeated by attacking bovid which shows that lions lose hunt if bovid attack.
3#...Bear are not ambush hunters. They hunt and kill both fleeing and attacking bovids. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *1- All cats are ambush predators. This includes even the cheetah who uses his cat stealth to get as close as possible without being detected. Then he chases his prey which he must catch within a very short run. Lions are ambush predators. However, the male lion's mane gives him away. He will boldly go after large prey such as buffalo; but he attacks a buffalo from the rear or from one side "ambush style". *2- The other hunting style, other than ambush, is chase and catch. The wolf is prime example of a chase and catch predator. His greatest strengths are incredible stamina and strong jaws. *The brown bear is both, with no hard-driven instinctive hunting style. He will chase animals such as elk ( like a wolf ) or he will ambush animals such as moose. A prey animal will seldom stand still for a predator to indulge him in a face-to-face combat. The prey must be caught. I read of a grizzly who preyed heavily upon mustangs, which he ambushed regularly at a "water hole". Sometimes, a grizzly will walk boldly into a bison herd and kill a calf. I believe the difference is in the method of killing once the prey animal is caught. The lion or tiger will attack the buffalo from the rear or from one side. A brown bear will often fight his prey face-to-face. Polar bears are skilled at ambushing seals; but will openly attack a walrus ( which must first be caught ).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 13:31:24 GMT -5
Agree with you brobear. No doubt, you are right.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 13:37:12 GMT -5
I this answer, I also classified hunting.
Hunting has two types:-
1.Ambush hunt
The prey is ambushed and does not know the presence of predator.
2.Head-on hunt
The predator attacks the prey without ambush to hunt. Two more this types are:-
(a) Fleeing-prey hunt
The prey see the predator see start running with fear which makes it vulnerable.
(b) Attacking-prey hunt
In this the prey stands it ground and also attack the predator. It is the most difficult situation for big cats but not for bears.
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2021 14:12:33 GMT -5
OK; we have it clearly narrowed down to three categories of killings which take place among the wild beasts of the natural world:
category 1- Face-Off - like two boxers who step into the ring and look each other in the eye. category 2- Ambush - like a Ninja who appears unexpectedly out of the darkness and attacks his victim without warning.( not a face-off ). category 3- Kill by Chase - like a wolf who chases the caribou. The caribou knows he is there. The wolf attacks from behind.( not a face-off ).
Every predator on earth falls within either category #2 or category #3 ...or am I missing anything? One thing for certain. Category #1 is uncommon in the natural world. But here is an example; a tiger is stalking a sloth bear but is found out. The bear spots the tiger who is stalking him. The bear has two choices, run or stand your ground. Over the course of about one-million years, the sloth bear has learned that his best chance of survival is to "stand your ground". Usually the tiger will walk away rather than risk injury in a fight. But the bear who panics and runs is almost always killed by the tiger. Sometimes a big bull bovine will stand his ground against a lion or a tiger. When this happens, and if the big cat accepts the challenge, then we have a category #1 face-off event - very uncommon.
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2021 14:21:59 GMT -5
Quote: 2.Head-on hunt The predator attacks the prey without ambush to hunt. Two more this types are:-
(a) Fleeing-prey hunt The prey see the predator see start running with fear which makes it vulnerable.
(b) Attacking-prey hunt In this the prey stands it ground and also attack the predator. It is the most difficult situation for big cats but not for bears. *There are times when a brown bear might end up in a face-off with ( we will say ) a wild boar who is defending his sounder of pigs. But, this happens by chance. This is not a hunting strategy. *Fleeing-prey hunt is "chase and catch" - a hunting strategy. The running prey is trying to escape. If killed on the run, this is not a face-off. However, should ( we will say ) a bull elk decides to stop running and face his enemy, then it can become a face-off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 23:03:57 GMT -5
In head-on hunt type, fleeing prey, I just want to describe that the animal knows the presence of predator (unlike ambush) but flees which makes him vulnerable. If the prey stands its ground and attacks the predator like lion so I call it attacking prey hunt although both had to fight but the lion will fight head-in with prey to hunt it down although it is a fight more than hunt. The lion will lose but I think not a bear.
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 3:31:00 GMT -5
In head-on hunt type, fleeing prey, I just want to describe that the animal knows the presence of predator (unlike ambush) but flees which makes him vulnerable. If the prey stands its ground and attacks the predator like lion so I call it attacking prey hunt although both had to fight but the lion will fight head-in with prey to hunt it down although it is a fight more than hunt. The lion will lose but I think not a bear. I agree with this. In a "chase and catch" hunt, if the prey stops running and turns to face the predator, then this chase becomes a face-off. From my perspective, if the predator catches the prey "on the run" and then a fight follows, this is not a face-off but remains a chase and catch scenario. I will add; in an ambush hunt, once the predator makes physical contact with his prey, the ambush is complete. Should the prey manage to dislodge his adversary and a fight follows, this is not a face-off. It remains an ambush event. *I also agree; in a face-off against large prey such as a bull bison or a bull moose, the brown bear stands a better chance than a big cat.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 15, 2021 5:27:43 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 6:13:06 GMT -5
Reply #109 - Yes; that was a very good find.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 15, 2021 8:01:35 GMT -5
Reply #109 - Yes; that was a very good find. Felines do fight head on but when they do, they generally dodge using their agility. Bears use more brute strength. Although the lion attacks head on more than any other cats.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 5:16:40 GMT -5
I have a question that in which category of hunting the wolf is? Is a wolf braver than a tiger?
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Post by brobear on Feb 16, 2021 5:52:30 GMT -5
I have a question that in which category of hunting the wolf is? Is a wolf braver than a tiger? The method of hunting has nothing whatsoever to do with courage. To consume meat, a predator must first catch his prey. Some predators hunt by ambush. These predators might use stealth like a cat or perhaps camouflage as is used by a huge assortment of insects, reptiles, etc. The wolf is a chase-and-catch predator who depends on the combination of speed and stamina. Either predator might find himself in a face-to-face confrontation scenario on occasion. *Bear: see Bears in General - Jack-of-all-Trades vs Specialist
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 17:08:06 GMT -5
Big cats do hunt large prey head on occasionally.
Like this lion killing a cape buffalo bull head on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 20:00:03 GMT -5
Big cats do hunt large prey head on occasionally. Like this lion killing a cape buffalo bull head on. I am not sure because:- A lion is no doubt a brave animal. I accept it that although its an ambush predator yet it may attack from front. If a buffalo is trying to flee then lion will kill it if the buffalo fights back then you may find the lion as dead. Tigers donot go head-on. All kind of dangerous animals taken by tigers are ambush which can be even smaller than itself, best example is the sloth bear. Tiger can inly attack head on when the prey is harmless and very feeble like a deer calf. Cheetahs also ambush and I remember that 5 months go I saw a male impala defeated 1 mother cheetah when the fight on and the cheetah was wounded. Conclusion:- With the exception of lion, all cats are strict ambush predators and will attack only harmless prey head-on maybe. If the fight goes headon with a dangerous animal like bear ir buffalo then all cats, from black-toed cat to Siberian tiger, would be defeated.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 17, 2021 20:17:29 GMT -5
Reply #114: yes, a lion is by far the most face to face fighter out of all cats, that is a well known fact. But as to that video is concerned, we cant see how the hunt started, it could had been started by ambush which is most likely the case. The buffalo was strong enough to dislodge the lion, the lion being the bravest of cats continued the hunt and a head on fight started. But the buffalo was most likely already injured from the most likely initial ambush attack. To know if it was by ambush or not we have to see how the hunt started, otherwise this being a cat, it is automatically assumed it started by ambush. But all in all, that was a good kill for the lion.
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Post by brobear on Feb 18, 2021 3:44:29 GMT -5
I'm no "lion history" expert, but sometime during ( I'm guessing ) the Pleistocene, the forest where the lions were living became more wide-open grassland. This changed everything. The lions had to learn new skills. But, lions are still ambush predators. I have read numerous conflicting theories as to why a male lion has that shaggy mane. But one point is clear; that mane makes stalking prey very difficult. It is not uncommon for a lone male lion to starve to death, even where prey animals are abundant. Both the lion and the brown bear evolved into fighters due to living out in wide-open spaces. Perhaps this is why lions started living in "gangs" - but then pride is a much prettier word.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 14:29:07 GMT -5
Makes a lot of difference and you will never know the real outcome if it was fully fair 1v1.
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Post by brobear on Feb 27, 2021 20:28:03 GMT -5
Makes a lot of difference and you will never know the real outcome if it was fully fair 1v1. This depends on what you mean by "fully fair". If you are referring to "weight-parity", then I would give it a 50/50. In my personal opinion, a "weight-parity" fight between a bear and a big cat is NOT a fair fight. A bear has greater girth which gives him a natural weight and strength advantage. What I would refer to as "size-parity" is both the lion and the brown bear at equal head-and-body-length. This is ( IMO ) a "fully fair" face-off, with each of them retaining all of his personal advantages. However... better than either weight-parity or size-parity would be each predator at his own typical size. Typically, the brown bear is going to have a weight advantage of anywhere from 100 to 200 pounds. Boom! Brown Bear kills Lion... ( one-on-one ).
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