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Post by tom on Jun 22, 2020 15:37:20 GMT -5
Again let's look beyond just hunting alone. Lions fight other Lions all the time, so stating big cats never use catagory 1 is incorrect. Tigers the same. Both are highly territorial. I would go so far as to say most if not all big predators have used all 3 catagories at one time or another. Just that cats probably engage in 2 & 3 more commonly than other predators.
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Post by brobear on Jun 22, 2020 15:39:11 GMT -5
Canids aka wolves here also exhaust and face-off after herbivore exhaustion most times with Bison, Elk, Moose IF the prey decides to turn and face his enemy before any physical contact is made; then ( IMO ) the chase becomes a face-off.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 22, 2020 15:42:11 GMT -5
Again let's look beyond just hunting alone. Lions fight other Lions all the time, so stating big cats never use catagory 1 is incorrect. Tigers the same. Both are highly territorial. I would go so far as to say most if not all big predators have used all 3 catagories at one time or another. Just that cats probably engage in 2 & 3 more commonly than other predators. I wasn't really talking about lions. I know lions hunt and fight face to face all the time. I meant all other big cats. Tigers might have territorial battles, but barely fight other animals head on.
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Post by brobear on Jun 22, 2020 15:48:05 GMT -5
Again let's look beyond just hunting alone. Lions fight other Lions all the time, so stating big cats never use catagory 1 is incorrect. Tigers the same. Both are highly territorial. I would go so far as to say most if not all big predators have used all 3 catagories at one time or another. Just that cats probably engage in 2 & 3 more commonly than other predators. BigBonns once stated that the grizzly fights as often as the lion or the tiger ( speaking of fighting with his own kind ). All three have considerable face-off experience with his own kind. Grizzlies fight less often to the death; but then a grizzly is more durable than a big cat. An old boar grizzlies can easily be recognized by his battle scars. Also note that, not being a full-time predator, when a grizzly fights, he just flat-out don't give a damn whether his opponent is left alive or dead. As long as he takes the fight out of his adversary, all is good. This is why we have more survivors to bear attacks than from big cat attacks.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 22, 2020 15:48:45 GMT -5
If you analize my posts, i never said "never" use category 1, i said "almost never". In my opinion its like this for big cats (excluding lions).
Category 1-10% face to face Category 2-60% ambush-not a face-off Category 3-30% chase from behind-not a face-off
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Post by brobear on Jun 22, 2020 15:51:52 GMT -5
Quote: Tigers might have territorial battles, but barely fight other animals head on. *Ahhh; now we are agreeing. A lion is more apt to fight face-to-face with a species not his own. What the hell is wrong with Africa? Spotted hyenas - gang warfare. African buffalo - gang warfare. Chimpanzee - gang warfare. Nile crocodile - why in the hell can't he be as easy-going as an alligator?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 22, 2020 15:58:19 GMT -5
Wow, finally we agree today, i though we would end the day in disagreement, ha ha ha.
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Post by tom on Jun 22, 2020 16:06:44 GMT -5
Again let's look beyond just hunting alone. Lions fight other Lions all the time, so stating big cats never use catagory 1 is incorrect. Tigers the same. Both are highly territorial. I would go so far as to say most if not all big predators have used all 3 catagories at one time or another. Just that cats probably engage in 2 & 3 more commonly than other predators. I wasn't really talking about lions. I know lions hunt and fight face to face all the time. I meant all other big cats. Tigers might have territorial battles, but barely fight other animals head on.I kind of know what you meant so no harm Kodiak. I would agree that Tigers much less so than Lions would take on large prey head on. This to me would be a category 1. Not saying this would be the norm but rather the exception. Male Lion decides to take on a bull buffalo. Bull buffalo has no intentions of running away and turns to fight or even charge the Lion. Now most Lions may be somewhat reluctant to engage a Buffalo like that head on but lets just say this Lion is extremely aggressive and bold (think Mr. T). They engage. Would you also agree this is a category 1?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 22, 2020 16:14:02 GMT -5
Definitely Tom. That sounds like category 1 to me.
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Post by brobear on Jun 22, 2020 17:07:29 GMT -5
Definitely Tom. That sounds like category 1 to me. Absolutely. A category #1 is only possible when the prey or adversary decides to stand his ground and fight. Lion and Grizzly are the two large predators willing to accept such a challenge. I might be wrong ( not a big cat expert ) but after the lion, I'm thinking jaguar possibly runner-up. Not many large animals in S. America, but this cat is aggressive with caimans and anacondas.
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 5:23:20 GMT -5
It starts off as a Chase and Catch, but in the last moment becomes a face-off kill...
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 8:26:26 GMT -5
King Kodiak; Reply #92... please make attempts at being a little more subtle with your biased comments. What predator doesn't kill?
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 8:50:14 GMT -5
The face-event on the reply #91 video is ( IMO ) just barely a face-off - certainly not your classic face-off event where both animals are standing, looking each other in the eye, and ready to fight. But it is a face-off. The mother sloth bear is trying to escape from the tiger. It starts out as a ( previously I had stated a chase ) but in watching again... it started off as a typical ambush attempt. But the tiger was found out and the bear met the tiger's attack head-on. Extreme courage shown here as she willingly fights the *much larger tiger in defense of her cub. Perhaps what we are seeing here ( with our now two tiger/sloth bear fight videos ), is that ( perhaps ) a full-grown male tiger is willing to fight with a female sloth bear face-to-face. In those videos where the tiger backs down are ( maybe ) either sub-adult tigers or females. Now; what are we missing? Where are the tiger meets sloth bear boar videos? *Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. / Average female sloth bear - 200 pounds.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 28, 2020 9:11:03 GMT -5
Exceptionally large male sloth bears can reach 420 pounds. Male sloth bears seldom exceed 350 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 9:14:52 GMT -5
Exceptionally large male sloth bears can reach 420 pounds. Male sloth bears seldom exceed 350 pounds. Male sloth bear vs Bengal tigress in a face-off, My money would be on the bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 28, 2020 10:11:02 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 10:20:24 GMT -5
Thank you. Weight Collection: Reply #3 needs to be completed. 150 x 3 = 450 pounds. ( think about it ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 28, 2020 10:29:09 GMT -5
Thank you. Weight Collection: Reply #3 needs to be completed. 150 x 3 = 450 pounds. ( think about it ). I have seen some biased tiger fans claim the tiger won that fight because he mauled the bear. But guess what? In the UFC if you maul someone during the whole fight, but at end of the fight that guy loses statima and submits, he loses that fight officially. The tiger ran away at the end, therefore he lost the fight. Not to mention that his objective failed.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 28, 2020 10:36:32 GMT -5
Suppose i fight in the UFC, and i destroy my opponent all 3 rounds, i wreck him, and of course if i dont finish him off, the judges will give me the win 100%. But if somehow at the end of the fight, my opponent gets a submission hold on me and i submit, this means i lose the fight. If i jump the fence and run away at the end, i lose the fight also even though i dominated the whole fight.
The tiger mauled the little female sloth bear yes, he would had won, but guess what? At the end, he lost stamina and ran away, therefore he submitted, this means the bear won officially.
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Post by brobear on Jun 28, 2020 12:08:18 GMT -5
We now have a total of 2 male tiger vs female sloth bear events caught on camera. In Reply #91 the tiger kills the bear rather quickly. As shown on previous page, the tiger is double the weight of the bear, if not triple the weight. So, with a huge size advantage in both fights, the tiger managed to kill the bear in one-out-of-two / 50%.
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