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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 4, 2021 5:58:07 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2021 11:19:14 GMT -5
Anyone who has witnessed ( at least on video ) the aggression of a mother grizzly, should agree that in a face-to-face confrontation, a face-off between a hungry male Amur tiger and an angry female Ussuri brown bear is not going to be a pleasant slow-dance for the big cat. In fact, while I probably can't give an accurate estimate, I'm sure that the tiger will not win this fight every time.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Aug 27, 2021 11:38:47 GMT -5
/\ I doubt it will be a 10/10 for either party.
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Post by tom on Aug 27, 2021 13:51:18 GMT -5
Anyone who has witnessed ( at least on video ) the aggression of a mother grizzly, should agree that in a face-to-face confrontation, a face-off between a hungry male Amur tiger and an angry female Ussuri brown bear is not going to be a pleasant slow-dance for the big cat. In fact, while I probably can't give an accurate estimate, I'm sure that the tiger will not win this fight every time. If in fact this sow had cubs with her. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" We'll all we have to do is replace the word "woman" with Mother Grizzly" Yes, we've seen too many videos of female Grizzlies with cubs turn back MUCH larger males with an almost demon like state of being. She cares not about herself, but she will die defending her cubs if need be. A big male Tiger is no different. He's likely looking at those cubs (if they're with her) as a meal just like the big male Bear. Now a lone female Bear (no cubs) poses a different scenario altogether. But I would guess she could still hold her own if her life depends on it.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 12, 2021 20:44:11 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2021 0:29:03 GMT -5
There is a small amount of good information to be filtered out of the spam presented there, at what was once a highly respected forum, by that particular fanboy. A very small amount within that big mound of garbage. But, what you filtered out is good. It shows that even after a big male tiger ambushed a she-bear, the wounded bear will sometimes be able to dislodge the bear and put-up a good fight.
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Post by kesagake on Sept 13, 2021 2:58:05 GMT -5
OldGreenGrolar this account was actually posted by you know what and once again without realizing he debunked himself again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 4:16:08 GMT -5
So is that four female bears text recycled again in wildfact as it would be something new? It is truly odd to see that wildfact changed policy so much, that now fanboys are free to post rubbish as much as they want, when it is about Siberian/Amur tigers. I think, that other moderators won´t allow similar rubbish in threads concerning other animals. I haven´t read any threads in there anymore, but sad if credibility of that forum is going down, even though hopefully just partially. Too obsessed fanboys do it to any forum if they are free to post anything they like to.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 13, 2021 4:36:11 GMT -5
OldGreenGrolar this account was actually posted by you know what and once again without realizing he debunked himself again. Yeah this account debunks the myth that Dale ‘killed’ male Ussuri brown bears twice his weight. The largest that tiger killed was a female brown bear almost his own weight.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 13, 2021 5:25:49 GMT -5
I'd have a question; who actually said that Dale killed male brown bears twice his weight? In reality he killed adult female brown bears, so the person claiming he took on large male brown bears obviously is a stupid tiger fan who wants to sell a few good stories making his "Chosen One" look good. We've seen the same with the Batalov case; some third-party source talking about a regular male tiger slaying one of the biggest brown bears in the area but Batalov not knowing anything about this incident when being confronted with the newspaper's citations as seen via Shadow's email to him.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2021 5:50:57 GMT -5
Back in the old AVA forum, early 2000's, that story was running rampant after some fanboy created the fake story on Youtube. But, this was soon proven false by some knowledgeable posters who had access to the real story of Dale and the bears. However, for a long time, we were led to believe that the biggest of the two adult she-bears killed by Dale weighed 440 pounds. We now know that this was just one estimate given to the bear, which actually weighed somewhere between 330 to 440 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Sept 14, 2021 15:51:27 GMT -5
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalsversesanimals/siberian-tiger-misha-the-adult-brown-bear-killer-t1707.html?sid=2b97ef6ec30aecef3ab85036b72df12f Siberian Tiger - the brown bear killer. Dale, also known as Misha or M20 killed numerous bears. He was a big 445-pound male tiger who had acquired a unique taste for bear flesh. Among the bears he ambushed and killed, all but two adult she-bears were juvenile bears. Dale, as with all recorded tiger killing bear cases, never killed a bear as large as himself. In both incidents, involving the ambush of adult brown bear sows by Dale, the she-bear managed to dislodge the tiger and put-up a fight. These bloody struggles prove that a full-grown female brown bear is not easy prey for a big male tiger. Sometimes, a tiger ambushes the she-bear and the bear is killed quickly with a bite to the base of the neck. But, when the bear is not killed quickly, the ambush can become a fight between a wounded she-bear and tiger. I have no doubts that in some cases, the she-bear kills the tiger.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 17, 2021 5:51:06 GMT -5
/\ Could there possibly be unrecorded accounts of female Ussuri brown bears killing tigers?
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Post by brobear on Sept 17, 2021 6:09:45 GMT -5
/\ Could there possibly be unrecorded accounts of female Ussuri brown bears killing tigers? Certainly. These two impressive mammals have ruled over the R.F.E. for roughly one-million years. I have no doubts that in some cases, the she-bear kills the tiger. But more often, the big powerful ambush predator quickly kills the she-bear. Even in a fair face-off, the big male tiger will most often be the victor. But, not every time. A Mama grizzly is no pushover; even for a tiger. ( Note: if I could change my vote; I would move it from draw to tiger ).
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 17, 2021 6:18:45 GMT -5
In remember we once discussed and agreed that female Ussuri brown bears raise cubs where Siberian tigers are absent and male Ussuri brown bears prefer to be where females are abundant. Do you have a source of link for that?
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Post by brobear on Sept 17, 2021 6:31:19 GMT -5
In remember we once discussed and agreed that female Ussuri brown bears raise cubs where Siberian tigers are absent and male Ussuri brown bears prefer to be where females are abundant. Do you have a source of link for that? No; it is either here: Debate: Male Amur Tiger vs Female Ussuri Brown Bear or here: Amur Tiger vs Ussuri Brown Bear Lost within 196 pages of conversations.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 19, 2021 10:43:49 GMT -5
In remember we once discussed and agreed that female Ussuri brown bears raise cubs where Siberian tigers are absent and male Ussuri brown bears prefer to be where females are abundant. Do you have a source of link for that? No; it is either here: Debate: Male Amur Tiger vs Female Ussuri Brown Bear or here: Amur Tiger vs Ussuri Brown Bear Lost within 196 pages of conversations. Looks like we are right: Hence, males dispersing west from the population core may prefer to settle in the periphery where competition is low and sheep are available , but relatively close to the core areas where they can get access to females during the mating season (H7). journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202653
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Post by brobear on Sept 25, 2021 1:50:33 GMT -5
All in all, tidbits of this can be found throughout the Amur tiger/Ussuri brown bear topics. In reality, its simply basic common sense. Why would a female brown bear with cubs choose to remain in an area where she must remain on constant alert for a tiger which she knows is there. She and her cubs would be in constant danger. So, the she-bears venture out to other safer locations. This, in turn, leaves the male brown bears in a location devoid of females. What healthy young man would choose to remain in a town with no women? So, how is this natural occurrence explained by tiger fanboys? Their version; "bears, including full-grown male brown bears, retreat from locations where a tiger chooses to live because bears fear tigers." -We just look the other way and allow them their ignorance.
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Post by brobear on Oct 13, 2021 22:20:28 GMT -5
More to do about Reply #236; We know that a mother brown bear will often vacate an area where she knows there lurks a tiger. A tiger is a constant threat to her cubs. However, this may not hold true for an adult she-bear without cubs. Bear flesh makes up a very small percentage of the meat consumed by a tiger; averaging roughly 3%. Of this 3% of the animal flesh eaten by a tiger, maybe half of that is brown bear. Of this 1.5% of brown bear flesh consumed by a tiger, the vast majority of this comes from juvenile bears ( mostly 3 and 4 year olds ). So, the percentage of adult female brown bear flesh consumed by a tiger would be .0 ( something ) percent. It is unlikely that these lone she-bears would bother to move from her location because of the presence of tigers. Another point; most people agree that in a face-off, a male Amur tiger could kill a female Ussuri brown bear. However, what a tiger can do and what a tiger will do are entirely two different matters. When we figure that a full-grown male tiger will most often back away from a female sloth bear half his size, then it is almost a sure bet that he is not going to relish a face-to-face fight against a full-grown grizzly she-bear. I will also add; if a mother brown bear, in defense of her cubs, charges full-speed towards a big male tiger, I will wager my bank account that the tiger will retreat.
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Post by brobear on Oct 21, 2021 5:05:43 GMT -5
link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S1062359018080149 Abstract During the years 1992–2013, we studied the relationship between Amur tigers and brown and Asiatic black bears in the Sikhote-Alin Nature Reserve and surrounding areas in the southern part of the Russian Far East. To determine the importance of bears in the diet of tigers, 763 kills were located and identified, and 430 tiger scat samples were collected and analyzed. To detect kills and scat samples, we used radio telemetry and satellite tracking, as well as snow-tracking. Relying on evidence revealed by tracks, as well as radio telemetry, we determined whether bears exploited tiger kills as a food resource and how the two may have interacted at kill sites. Thirty-two Asiatic black bear and 12 brown bear den sites were measured to define properties that might assist in protection from the threat of a tiger attack. We identified 641 instances of marking on trees by both tigers and bears, an indication of the complexity of their relationship. Bears are an important part of the tigers’ diet, representing 2.2% of all kills found. Bear remains were found in 8.4% of examined tiger scat. Bears exploited tiger kills after a tiger had left, by usurping a kill, or by “sharing” a kill at alternate times. The occurrence of den properties that provided some protection from tigers was dependent on the den type and location. Evidence of both tiger and bear marking was detected at 50.1% of marked trees. A review of the literature on the relationship of tigers and bears is provided. Quote from reply above: We identified 641 instances of marking on trees by both tigers and bears, an indication of the complexity of their relationship. Evidence of both tiger and bear marking was detected at 50.1% of marked trees. Conclusion: The fact that both bears and tiger are marking the same trees dispels the claim that brown bears vacate locations where tigers live. As I mention a few posts up, perhaps she-bears with cubs will vacate the realm of a male tiger, and maybe an adult male brown bear will also leave if there are no she-bears within his domain. But otherwise, tigers and brown bears coexist.
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