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Post by King Kodiak on May 25, 2021 21:20:29 GMT -5
Guys: i know that in our "weight collection" thread, we have the adult female Ussuri brown bear listed at 415 lbs:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/24139/thread
But i respectfully dont agree with this because TheUndertaker added specimens from Kucherenko which is before 1970, so these would be "historical" data, not contemporary data. So in my opinion, we have to go with the latest data available, which is from Seryodkin from December 2019, (at least i am going with this):
Reply #68:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/43911/thread
Average body weight for adult female โฅ 7-9 year old 163.75 kg (361 lbs), 181.17 cm in length. (4 specimens)
So in reality, the Amur tiger has a 60 lb weight advantage, plus add to the fact that this is a female brown bear, so even at a weight parity fight, i would favour the tiger here. I think the tiger wins 6/7 out of 10 times. (I have to favour the tiger sometimes, call me biased now, ha ha ha).
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Post by Montezuma on May 25, 2021 21:24:15 GMT -5
I think that you are more accurate.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 26, 2021 17:51:15 GMT -5
Reply 199. So the Amur tiger seems to have a weight adavntage over the female Ussuri brown bear. I guess that means it is the same weight as a tigress.
If you look at the op in the Carnivora threads: Grizzly bear vs African lion and grizzly sow vs lioness, you will find that the weights of the latter two overlap while the male grizzly in general exceeds the weight of the African lion.
Male Ussuri brown bear =Male Amur tiger>Female Ussuri brown bear> (slightly) Female Amur tiger, in my opinion.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 26, 2021 18:17:37 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 27, 2021 4:35:05 GMT -5
/\ I stand corrected. I thought the average tigress would be above 300 pounds. A lot of poaching has been done.
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Post by brobear on May 27, 2021 5:16:39 GMT -5
Average fully-grown male Ussuri brown bear ( 10 years+) - 657 pounds. Average fully-grown female Ussuri brown bear (7 years+) - 415 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 418.9 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (contemporary) - 266.8 pounds. *A face-off between a typical male Amur tiger and a typical Ussuri female brown bear is pretty-much a weight-parity match-up. I gave it a 50/50. I also view this as a win-win for the bear. It's a male tiger against a female bear. Therefore, even if the majority vote pro-tiger, this does not put a feather into the tiger enthusiast's hat. It's male vs male or female vs female that counts.
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Post by Montezuma on May 27, 2021 14:32:05 GMT -5
Is that true, i read on wikipedia of bear hunting that when wounded, bear slow down their heart pump action as a defence process against blood loss."
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Post by brobear on May 27, 2021 14:37:11 GMT -5
Is that true, i read on wikipedia of bear hunting that when wounded, bear slow down their heart pump action as a defence process against blood loss." I've never heard this told before. Interesting thought though. I have my doubts; but cannot give a positive answer. Normally, with excitement comes faster heart pumping.
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Post by Montezuma on May 27, 2021 14:51:56 GMT -5
Is that true, i read on wikipedia of bear hunting that when wounded, bear slow down their heart pump action as a defence process against blood loss." I've never heard this told before. Interesting thought though. I have my doubts; but cannot give a positive answer. Normally, with excitement comes faster heart pumping.ย I think that during a fight, the bears heart beat and metabolism will be fast to supply energy quickly to every body part in heavy and fast work. While after the fight, the heart beat may become slower than normal so the blood pumping speed would also become slow and would not go out of body to decrease blood loss. Just my though that i read, but i believe that it can be a fact. Bears are masters of survivors.๐
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Post by brobear on May 28, 2021 6:20:39 GMT -5
Debate: Male Amur Tiger vs Female Ussuri Brown Bear I have conceded in my original 50/50 guesswork. I will give it to the tiger ( my estimation ) 7 out of 10... if the weight difference is minimal. I make this change of opinion based on the opinions of two very reliable members, each of good common sense, highly educated, and quite knowledgeable - 'Taker and Shadow; each of whom favor the male tiger over the brown she-bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 28, 2021 9:23:00 GMT -5
Oh i thought you changed because of me! (Just kidding), I favour the tiger 6/7 out of 10 times. Its obvious it will defeat an adult female brown bear more often than not. Did you chage your vote in the poll?
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Post by brobear on May 28, 2021 9:29:16 GMT -5
Oh i thought you changed because of me! (Just kidding), I favour the tiger 6/7 out of 10 times. Its obvious it will defeat an adult female brown bear more often than not. Kodiak; you and I have bumped heads so many times, we could compete with bighorn sheep. But yeah, I did consider your going with the male tiger, which is totally out of character for you. That further heaped the probable winner being the tiger further up the ladder.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 28, 2021 9:45:55 GMT -5
Oh i thought you changed because of me! (Just kidding), I favour the tiger 6/7 out of 10 times. Its obvious it will defeat an adult female brown bear more often than not. Kodiak; you and I have bumped heads so many times, we could compete with bighorn sheep. But yeah, I did consider your going with the male tiger, which is totally out of character for you. That further heaped the probable winner being the tiger further up the ladder. I think we bumped heads on some minor issues though, i think we usually agree on 90% + of all threads.
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Post by Montezuma on May 29, 2021 17:37:27 GMT -5
I can say that the female brown bear can win 55%. However, i like to debate the female brown bear vs male tiger as it is fair match. The male grizzly vs male tiger is mismatch and why we should discuss a topic which is surely in the favour of bear.๐
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Post by brobear on May 29, 2021 18:46:20 GMT -5
I can say that the female brown bear can win 55%. However, i like to debate the female brown bear vs male tiger as it is fair match. The male grizzly vs male tiger is mismatch and why we should discuss a topic which is surely in the favour of bear.๐ I agree that male Amur tiger vs Ussuri brown she-bear is highly debatable. But, its still a win win for the bear. Most, even here in the "Domain of the Bears" vote for the tiger. But, this is not a loss for the bear enthusiasts. This does not place a feather into the hats of the fanboys. No trophy for a male defeating a female.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 3:04:32 GMT -5
I would give edge to tiger because the bear is female.
less experience and less testosterone.
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Post by brobear on Jun 6, 2021 5:55:49 GMT -5
When two animals of different species clash: Category 1- face to face confrontation- is a face-off. Category 2- ambush- not a face-off Category 3- chase and catch- not a face-off The strategy of an ambush: 1- Choose your intended victim. 2- Stalk your intended victim - stealth. 3- Attack - the high-speed rush between hiding place and the intended victim. 4- The Ambush - Once the predator makes physical contact with the victim - the ambush is complete - a successful ambush. 5- The Kill - Once the ambush is complete, then the victim must be killed. *Note: Should the predator fail to kill his victim, this does not mean that the ambush was a failed ambush. It was instead a failed kill. *Should the victim break free after the successful ambush and fight against the predator before being killed, the victim is still killed by ambush. What starts off as an ambush remains an ambush. No one really knows exactly how the fight between Dale and the big she-bear went down, but the common belief is that Dale ambushed the brown bear, failed to make a quick kill ( possibly because she had a thickly muscled neck ), and so the she-bear managed to dislodge the tiger and then they fought for an estimated 20 minutes. If this scenario is correct, then the ambush was ( IMO ) not a failed ambush but rather a failed kill which led to a fight. If there was indeed an initial ambush, then the big she-bear was killed by ambush.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 12, 2021 15:07:45 GMT -5
I would give edge to tiger because the bear is female. less experience and less testosterone. The female bear may get as fierce as male if she has to defend her cubs.
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Post by brobear on Jun 14, 2021 7:39:17 GMT -5
The confirmed accounts of tigers killing brown bears all pertain to events of a tiger ( nearly always a big male ) ambushing and killing either a juvenile bear or a she-bear. The tiger fanboys are persistent in posting and reposting and reposting those same confirmed accounts over and over and over again. In the "End Game" a tiger killing a full grown she-bear by ambush does not earn a feather for the fanboy's hat. It's nothing at all to brag about. In those very rare cases of a tigress ambushing and kill a juvenile or subadult bear; also a waste of time and space on any blogsite. *Edit and add: Food for thought; There is more bear remains found within the droppings of the Amur tiger than any other tiger subspecies, even though the Amur tiger lives among the largest bear subspecies of any other tiger.
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Post by kesagake on Jun 30, 2021 5:01:14 GMT -5
At least we do admit that a female brown bear get killed by a male tiger unlike Pig Pork Lord who says โeven a tigress can kill a adult male brown bearโ when there are only two cases of tigresses killing brown bears from russian literature. And all these bears were juvenile individuals.
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