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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 15, 2021 15:22:18 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 2:10:51 GMT -5
Tigers: A fresh look at the size of tigers.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 2:12:13 GMT -5
Lions: A fresh look at the size of lions.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 2:30:53 GMT -5
Average weight of male tigers: Javan tiger - 110 kg or 242 pounds. Sumatran tiger - 118 kg or 260 pounds. Malayan tiger - 120.6 kg or 266 pounds. South Chinese tiger - 152 kg or 335 pounds. Indochinese tiger - 191 kg or 421 pounds. Caspian tiger - 197 kg or 434 pounds. Bengal tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds. Amur tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 2:39:51 GMT -5
Average weight of male lions: Ethiopian lion - 137.2 kg or 302 pounds. West African lion - 158 kg or 348 pounds. Asian lion - 163.4 kg or 360 pounds. East African lion - 174 kg or 384 pounds. Botswana lion - 184 kg or 406 pounds. Zimbabwe lion - 192 kg or 423 pounds. South African lion - 192 kg or 423 pounds. Nambia lion - 197 kg or 434 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 3:07:31 GMT -5
Considering all subspecies of lions and tigers, the average weight of adult males: Tiger - 355 pounds. Lion - 385 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 0:54:25 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 0:55:11 GMT -5
Continued:
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Post by brobear on Mar 30, 2022 9:23:04 GMT -5
According to GuateGojira - average adult males: Average lion - Panthera leo: 194 kg (South Africa, by me) Average tiger - Panthera tigris: 201 kg (Indian subcontinent, by me) Average Panthera atrox: 256 kg (Christiansen & Harris, 2009) Average Smilodon populator: 304 kg (Prevosti & Vizcaino, 2006) Note ( I'm American ) 194 kg = 427.70 pounds. 201 kg = 443.13 pounds. 256 kg = 564.38 pounds. 304 kg = 670.21 pounds. ( We still have no clue as to the average brown bear ( Ursus arctos ). *Note: Average weights of both lion and tiger given here does not represent these big cats as a species, but rather for the particular regions stated. Both the average lion and the average tiger ( as a species ) falls well below the 400 pound mark. See Reply #165
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Post by brobear on Jul 1, 2022 17:13:25 GMT -5
Reliable confirmed Amur tiger weights ( credits to Guate Gojira ) 1. 254 kg - ( 560 pounds ) Trans-Amur region. 2. 250 kg "evicerated" (could be c.270 kg "intact") - No location specified. 3. 249.5 kg - ( 550 pounds ) Bikin, Ussuri region. 4. 227 kg - ( 500 pounds ) North Kirin, Manchuria. 5. 224 kg - ( 494 pounds ) Manchuria. *Note: There are no confirmed 300 kg Amur tigers.
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Post by brobear on Jul 22, 2022 15:14:42 GMT -5
Reliable confirmed Amur tiger weights ( credits to Guate Gojira ) 1. 254 kg - ( 560 pounds ) Trans-Amur region. 2. 250 kg "evicerated" (could be c.270 kg "intact") - No location specified. 3. 249.5 kg - ( 550 pounds ) Bikin, Ussuri region. 4. 227 kg - ( 500 pounds ) North Kirin, Manchuria. 5. 224 kg - ( 494 pounds ) Manchuria. *Note: There are no confirmed 300 kg Amur tigers. *Note: there is no confirmed report of a tiger weighing a full 600 pounds ( 272.16 kilograms ) and yet tiger enthusiasts continue to talk about 300 kg tigers ( 660 pounds ). Truth: the heaviest brown bear is well above double the weight of the heaviest tiger ( Spring or Summer weight ).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 17:41:03 GMT -5
Reliable confirmed Amur tiger weights ( credits to Guate Gojira ) 1. 254 kg - ( 560 pounds ) Trans-Amur region. 2. 250 kg "evicerated" (could be c.270 kg "intact") - No location specified. 3. 249.5 kg - ( 550 pounds ) Bikin, Ussuri region. 4. 227 kg - ( 500 pounds ) North Kirin, Manchuria. 5. 224 kg - ( 494 pounds ) Manchuria. *Note: There are no confirmed 300 kg Amur tigers. *Note: there is no confirmed report of a tiger weighing a full 600 pounds ( 272.16 kilograms ) and yet tiger enthusiasts continue to talk about 300 kg tigers ( 660 pounds ). Truth: the heaviest brown bear is well above double the weight of the heaviest tiger ( Spring or Summer weight ). Tiger enthusiasts are the most fanatic and ridiculous debaters i have read on different forums. Yes a tiger is a beautiful animal, i love tigers. Yes a tiger is a powerful animal, like all large cats. Yes tigers can be ferocious and impressive when they fight. But they are not killing machines, they can't kill a full grown healthy elephant (if a guy claim that, my advice is to stop the discussion, no time to talk with idiots. What's the next step? A tiger killing a Tyrannosaur?). And sometimes tigers are killed by other animals in confrontation, and so? No animal can be totally safe in wild world. Lion enthusiasts are a bit more serious. It's just my opinion. I have seen a lot of videos about lions. They are really at the top of the food chain. But i have never seen a entire pride of lions succeed in killing a healthy adult male elephant. So if a pride of lions can't do that, how can some guys can believe that just one tiger can do it, it is pathetic. I have a lot of respect for tigers, lions, bears and many others, but come on, they are not killing machines.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 18:41:54 GMT -5
King Kodiak Yes but instead of the humerus it was more reasonable to compare it based on the femur as we don't have any comparative humerus figures for UVP 015. I also exaggerated the shoulder height of that bear due to a miscalculation, it probably was ~193cm tall instead of 206cm; still an enormous individual. So here we have him; "The Behemoth of Kansas River":
It is not against you undertaker but i am really tired of these pictures presenting Arctodus as an anorexic bear. He was more massive than depicted but it is not the problem here. I would be really happy if you could explain how you have evaluated a shoulder height of 193cm for this gigantic specimen please. I know this humerus since a lot of years. It is a humerus which is the size of a small elephant, it's really impressive for a carnivore. Here you have a comparison with a proboscidean from Asier Larramendi with a humerus of 651 mm: Attachments:
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Post by yz on Aug 23, 2022 13:09:12 GMT -5
*Note: there is no confirmed report of a tiger weighing a full 600 pounds ( 272.16 kilograms ) and yet tiger enthusiasts continue to talk about 300 kg tigers ( 660 pounds ). Truth: the heaviest brown bear is well above double the weight of the heaviest tiger ( Spring or Summer weight ). Tiger enthusiasts are the most fanatic and ridiculous debaters i have read on different forums. Yes a tiger is a beautiful animal, i love tigers. Yes a tiger is a powerful animal, like all large cats. Yes tigers can be ferocious and impressive when they fight. But they are not killing machines, they can't kill a full grown healthy elephant (if a guy claim that, my advice is to stop the discussion, no time to talk with idiots. What's the next step? A tiger killing a Tyrannosaur?). And sometimes tigers are killed by other animals in confrontation, and so? No animal can be totally safe in wild world. Lion enthusiasts are a bit more serious. It's just my opinion. I have seen a lot of videos about lions. They are really at the top of the food chain. But i have never seen a entire pride of lions succeed in killing a healthy adult male elephant. So if a pride of lions can't do that, how can some guys can believe that just one tiger can do it, it is pathetic. I have a lot of respect for tigers, lions, bears and many others, but come on, they are not killing machines. Yeah exactly even I support a tiger against a lion but if a whole pride can hardly handle an adult elephant surely a single tiger can't do any better 😂.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 23, 2022 15:24:56 GMT -5
Even a Smilodon and an American lion can't kill an adult elephant in 1v1.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Aug 25, 2022 1:41:29 GMT -5
@hibernours
The giant bear from Kansas River actually is the 2nd largest short-faced bear uncovered so far; the biggest one is UVP-015 with a humongous femur bone. On all 4s it would have probably been a full 2m tall considering it must have weighed around 1200kg or a bit more. The humerus pictured next to that of an elephant by Mr. Solbezon was by an Arctotherium specimen who was smaller than either of those two dimensionally.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 6:28:34 GMT -5
@hibernours The giant bear from Kansas River actually is the 2nd largest short-faced bear uncovered so far; the biggest one is UVP-015 with a humongous femur bone. On all 4s it would have probably been a full 2m tall considering it must have weighed around 1200kg or a bit more. The humerus pictured next to that of an elephant by Mr. Solbezon was by an Arctotherium specimen who was smaller than either of those two dimensionally. Well i note that you didn't answer to my question: how do you get a size of 193cm at the shoulders for the giant specimen of Kansas River. Another thing: i think we can't tell that UVP-015 is larger than the one with a humerus about 646mm because i don't think we have a humerus for the specimen UVP-015 and we don't have a femur for the giant specimen of Kansas river. I have never posted the humerus studied by Mr Soilbelzon, just a picture from Asier Larramendi to show you that a 193cm at the shoulder deserves clarification beacause it is incredibly big for a carnivor. UVP-015 has been estimated at 957kg, so it is less than your evaluation at 1200kg for the giant specimen of Kansas river. A weight of 957kg for a carnivor who is not fat is monstruous, do you realize that? The mean mass of Panthera atrox is around 250kg, it is almost 5 times heavier!I totally agree with you that largest short faced bears weighted around 1200kg and even more for the world record specimens. And for the moment the official largest weight is for Arctotherium angustidens. It is not because a guy on a forum claims that Arctotherium is 1100kg that this bear was 1100kg. In reality nobody knows for sure. Now i am waiting for your answer: can you show me how did you get a shoulder height of 193cm??? Imagine if this bear got fat how heavy he would have be...
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Post by theundertaker45 on Aug 25, 2022 6:52:30 GMT -5
I held a conversation with a poster called "tigerluver" in my DMs and he explained to me what it's all bout, I'll share a few excerpts here:
Hello tigerluver, I hope you are doing alright, it's me again and I wanted to hear your opinion on a few things. Take all the time you need for answering this, I am not in a hurry and would appreciate your detailed input on the following question. How big would you estimate UVP 015 (Arctodus Simus) in terms of HB-length (straight line), shoulder height (neutral position) and body weight?
And his reply:
Thanks! I quickly mounted the forelimb elements digitally and get a shoulder height of around 160-170 cm for the Richards and Turnbull specimen. When scientists measure on field they use tape along the contours to some degree so the height in that method would probably be around 180 cm. The aforementioned specimen is 11% smaller than perhaps the largest A. simus UVP 015. As such, the shoulder height on that giant would be around 200 cm; should be closer to the real life height.
... Unfortunately UVP015 only has a femur and some fragmentary posterior elements (lumbar vertebrae, ischia). However, if we extrapolate from the complete skeleton of Richards and Turnbull, the estimated humerus length would be ~660 mm (1.111 * 594 mm)... ... UVP C-2427 is very large. While longer than the A. angustidens giant, it’s a bit less robust. This could indicate the animals would’ve weighed similarly with UVP C-2427 being taller. Nonetheless, UVP 015 clearly has the potential to beat out both...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 7:46:06 GMT -5
Ok, i am absolutely not convinced by the answer made by tigerluver unless he shows its digital reconstruction. Anyway we are agree on a body mass greater than 1000kg, so this is the most important data. In fact, a shoulder height around 193cm tells us that when standing up this bear is approching 4 meters, that's too high in my opinion. It is possible for some giant specimens to have been more than 3.6 meters tall. I remember a guy who talked about a bone fragment about Arctotherium angustidens which would imply a skull around 56cm and a size of 3.9 meters high when standing up, but it was just a personal approximation.
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Post by brobear on Aug 25, 2022 8:03:35 GMT -5
Tigerluver, who happens to be a biologist by the way, does not make-up numbers or data. I am certain that any measurements given come from research and are well thought out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that I remember that a very large impressive male polar bear can stand as high as 11 feet (bipedal). Would it not be possible for the largest male Arctodus simus to reach a bipedal height approaching close to 13 feet?
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