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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 14, 2020 7:14:55 GMT -5
Brown bears are one of the most adaptable animals in the world. If a gobi bear can live with minimal water, I am sure brown bears can coexist with hippos.
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Post by brobear on Nov 16, 2020 7:53:15 GMT -5
The legend of Sabi Sands' lions, who teamed up to dominate 70,000 hectares of land. ( I've never even seen a hectare of land ).
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Post by tom on Nov 16, 2020 9:40:49 GMT -5
Mopogos?
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Post by tom on Nov 16, 2020 9:41:59 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Nov 16, 2020 9:56:14 GMT -5
Yes; bad news for a wandering bear.
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Post by brobear on Feb 8, 2021 5:13:11 GMT -5
Here are some conclusions we all seem to agree on: 1- The typically hot dry climate would be difficult for most brown bear subspecies. To transport a grizzly from Yellowstone to South Africa would be a drastic change. 2- The best candidates of brown bears for South Africa ( considering the climate ) would be Syrian brown bear and Gobi bear. 3- The lions would remain as the top terrestrial predators. 4- The African brown bear would feed on termites, small animals, carrion, and perhaps crocodile eggs. The wart hog would likely be a major prey animal. 5- The African brown bear ( probably averaging about 400 pounds ) would avoid lions, hyenas, crocodiles, buffalo, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, and elephants. 6- The African grizzly would likely displace leopards, cheetahs, and wild dogs from their kills, when there are no lions or hyenas nearby. 7- Contrary to typical brown bear habit, the African grizzly would probably avoid rivers because of the crocodiles and hippos. 8- Bears surviving in Africa - Questionable.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 8, 2021 7:50:28 GMT -5
Brown bears from Syria used to live with lions before the extinction of the latter in that country.
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Post by brobear on Apr 28, 2021 7:30:26 GMT -5
*Point to be made. If brown bears were to be introduced into South Africa, even though the lion would remain at the top of the food chain among land-based animals ( due to them living and hunting in numbers ), the brown bear would become the greatest of Africa's land-based Carnivorans due to the fact that in any one-on-one confrontation, the lion would come out as second best. ( IMO ) whether or not the adult male brown bear would be on the lion's menu would depend on just how big or how small brown bears living in S. Africa might be. This would depend on food availability. In favor of the bears, they would have no need for hibernation.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 28, 2021 8:50:05 GMT -5
Bears in hotter regions do not actually hibernate. Most bears in the colder regions do except for the polar bear (unless they are pregnant females with cubs).
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Post by Montezuma on May 11, 2021 17:30:21 GMT -5
Mostly the animals in hot climate tend to be smaller in size But why was the atlas brown bear and barbary lion so large despite of the presence of low food amount present over there?
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Post by Montezuma on May 11, 2021 17:41:13 GMT -5
*Point to be made. If brown bears were to be introduced into South Africa, even though the lion would remain at the top of the food chain among land-based animals ( due to them living and hunting in numbers ), the brown bear would become the greatest of Africa's land-based Carnivorans due to the fact that in any one-on-one confrontation, the lion would come out as second best. ( IMO ) whether or not the adult male brown bear would be on the lion's menu would depend on just how big or how small brown bears living in S. Africa might be. This would depend on food availability. In favor of the bears, they would have no need for hibernation. The bear might tend to be more carnivorous than many other herbivorous brown bear species as in africa, there is a variety of many animals. We may also see some accounts or videos of bears killing buffaloes, zebras, wild boar and big slow antelopes. Hyenas, jackals, foxes, wild dogs, leopards, cheetahs or caracals may face more prey usurption threat from bear more than lion as bears are mostly kleptoparasites. I think that the bear and lion inteareact may go vicious as both are true fighters. Even against a lone male lion, a bear mostly had to fight for stealing food as unlike tigers, lions mostly donot give up easily. There are plenty of videos showing a lion being badly killed by buffaloes but the cat does not turn away. Lion are brave and fearless. If a bear is large like Atlas bear so in one to one confortation, the bear would absolutely win and have a vicious fight with a pride which would result in some pride loss and a dead bear. If the bear is smaller or not so big so it will avoid the lions and may be easily killed by a vicious pride of lions. In wild, size and numbers matters too much.
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Post by Montezuma on May 11, 2021 17:42:49 GMT -5
Brown bears are one of the most adaptable animals in the world. If a gobi bear can live with minimal water, I am sure brown bears can coexist with hippos. Near water areas, bear may face problems with nile crocodiles or hippoes. Both these are aggressive and donot like other animals in the water kingdom.
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Post by brobear on May 12, 2021 2:01:05 GMT -5
To start with, the size-range of the Atlas bear is completely unknown. Some claim him to be no bigger than the average American black bear. Others have him at coastal brown bear size. Truth is; we don't know. But, if some living brown bears were introduced into Africa; how would this work out for the bears? A great many knowledgeable posters believe that a big brown bear could kill a lion quicker than it could a tiger. Their reasoning; the lion is more likely to go head-to-head against the bear, which is a bad idea. As for the rivers in S. Africa - I agree wholeheartedly. Brown bears love water. Hippopotamus and Nile crocodiles would kill lots of bears.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 16:27:53 GMT -5
brobearSince you asked, I participate a bit. I haven´t thought this issue before. But with brief thinking tricky thing. For some reason in past bears didn´t spread to southern parts of Africa. But I think that if they would have time to adapt, they might be able to survive, but Savannah is very harsh environment with hyena clans, wild dogs, leopards and on the top lions. Being a mother bear with cubs there, when male bears, frankly saying don´t give a ****, what comes to protecting cubs would be very challenging. I think that adult bears could handle the challenges and would learn to pick their fights, but real challenge would be reproducing and having sufficient survival rates for cubs. But what comes to carcasses, competition would be harsh, I´m not sure that a bear could displace male lion coalition or lion pride with pride male(s) present from carcass. If in size comparable to big Kodiak bears, it might happen. But usual inland brown bears might have there more than they can handle, when multiple big cats. Then again if picking up fights wisely they could have enough meat too to eat. Also ability to climb to the trees easily would help female bears and cubs against some threats. Still Savannah might be too difficult environment to mothers and cubs.
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Post by brobear on Aug 15, 2021 20:46:23 GMT -5
From looking at maps, I'm thinking that the obstacle that kept the Atlas bear confined to North Africa was the Sahara Desert. Yes, a she-bear would have a rough time raising cubs among lions and spotted hyenas. But then, how did they manage during the Pleistocene? Brown bears have a love for water. Crocodiles and hippos would be a major problem for brown bears. South Africa would pose a harsh challenge, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 3:57:37 GMT -5
From looking at maps, I'm thinking that the obstacle that kept the Atlas bear confined to North Africa was the Sahara Desert. Yes, a she-bear would have a rough time raising cubs among lions and spotted hyenas. But then, how did they manage during the Pleistocene? Brown bears have a love for water. Crocodiles and hippos would be a major problem for brown bears. South Africa would pose a harsh challenge, I think. Yeah, Sahara is an obstacle without any doubt. But there is that gateway, Nile river. After all in past lions, leopards, hyenas and so many others have spread across Africa and Asia. Same time tigers have lived in smaller area and then bears, even though spreading to larger area, not going to south in Africa. There can be many reasons, maybe jungle at the time hasn´t been what bears like or something else. But what comes to Savannah, it was just a thought that when not so much safe places for cubs it might be very challenging environment for mother bears. Up north there are only wolves who can give real trouble for mother bears, when counting out male bears in mating times. African Savannah has way more threats and it can be one reason that no bears there. When I think different parts of the world and competition between predators/carnivores I think, that African Savannah is on the top, it´s very harsh environment with toughest competition and for brown bears in our times it would be, imo, a living nightmare. Not for adult male bears or female bears without cubs, but when I think a mother bear with cub or cubs, I can´t think any other place which would be more difficult to raise a cub for an animal like bear. Lone lionesses manage to raise cubs sometimes, but it´s always very demanding for such lionesses. Often they lose cubs if alone. Could bears adapt enough in time, if introduced there is a good question. I haven´t been so interested about pleistocene, but I assume that in those times there have been also forests where bears have been living and maybe in some other way covered terrains for mother bears to raise cubs so, that safe places to rest could have been found. Naturally some cubs are lost always because there are no such places that no risks, but in Savannah it seems to be, that animal has to be very elusive like a leopard if alone and if bigger one, but not big enough like lioness, then they need to form prides/packs. When big enough like rhinos, elephants, giraffes and hippos, it is again a bit different thing. Bears are quite big, but I think, that not big enough to rise cubs alone with such competition which southern Africa offers, when considering environment too. I can be wrong too. I see this as pretty complicated matter with many possibilities, but also with many possible problems.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 4:56:29 GMT -5
I have to add, that bears are smart animals. Maybe they could do it. Learning how to move from one place to another in safe way with cubs and so on. Bear cubs grow to reasonable size quite fast helping a lot against wild dogs and hyenas, also leopards leaving mainly lions as major threat after a few months. Here video footage from same female bear cub, which was rescued in Finland (mother had abandoned it) and is now taken care by "bearman" Sulo Karjalainen. Early May 2021: Early July 2021: Late July 2021, listen how upset bear sounds, when not getting coffee 0:30 forward, she even turns her back to Sulo and walks away when so angry to him :
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Post by brobear on Nov 16, 2021 0:23:08 GMT -5
AFRICA; south of the Sahara Desert. IF grizzly bears were introduced into this harsh environment, could they survive? As Shadow pointed out, life would be especially challenging for a mother bear. But then, mother brown bears somehow managed in Pleistocene Eurasia and North America, where predators were even greater in numbers and species variety. Bears simply seem to be great survivors. Three food choices that I believe the grizzly would discover in Africa are ( 1 ) Termites, in those tall concrete-like termite mounds. ( 2 ) Warthogs. A grizzly could catch a warthog on the run, or dig him out of the Aardvark burrow. ( 3 ) Crocodile eggs. I have no fantasies of a grizzly choosing to tackle a full-grown crocodile, but baby crocs and eggs would provide a temptation. Of course, there are many other food choices to be found, such the local vegetation, honey bees, burrowing rodents, herbivores such as zebra and wildebeest, and the kills of leopards, cheetahs, or wild dogs. There are numerous animals that the grizzly would learn to avoid, such as elephants, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, large crocodiles, and lions. I'm really unsure if the grizzly would treat the spotted hyena as he does the wolf or the Cape buffalo as he does the bison. But, such encounters would be interesting.
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Post by brobear on Dec 1, 2021 6:02:13 GMT -5
First posted by: arctozilla.
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Post by brobear on Dec 1, 2021 6:05:45 GMT -5
Reply #598 strengthens my theory that our hypothetical African grizzly would routinely dine on crocodile eggs.
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