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Post by brobear on Apr 4, 2020 4:26:14 GMT -5
I am not sure how well established that is, but some sites do state it:
"Due to the relative scarcity of food (compared to the herds roaming the savanna), Barbary lions were loners, though they would occasionally live in same-sex pairs."
beinglion.com/barbary-lions.php Strange that these really big lions lived in a location where prey animals were scarce. I'm completely unfamiliar with what lives in North Africa. Edit and add: from the site you posted, the Barbary lion was every inch and pound as big as a Bengal tiger.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 4, 2020 4:37:10 GMT -5
ANIMALS FROM NORTH AFRICA
North Africa has a plethora of wild animals including the leopard, the dama gazelle and the striped hyena. Whether you go to Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria or Western Sahara, you are likely to encounter any of these animals at the local zoo or on a safari. Guide books such as Lonely Planet and the Rough Guide will give you more information on the different kinds of elephants and gazelles. Although the "big seven" African animals--such as the rhino, elephant and lion--tend to congregate in eastern and southern Africa, the impressive animals of the northern part of the continent are worth a visit.sciencing.com/animals-north-africa-6700788.html
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Post by brobear on Apr 4, 2020 4:46:22 GMT -5
ANIMALS FROM NORTH AFRICA
North Africa has a plethora of wild animals including the leopard, the dama gazelle and the striped hyena. Whether you go to Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria or Western Sahara, you are likely to encounter any of these animals at the local zoo or on a safari. Guide books such as Lonely Planet and the Rough Guide will give you more information on the different kinds of elephants and gazelles. Although the "big seven" African animals--such as the rhino, elephant and lion--tend to congregate in eastern and southern Africa, the impressive animals of the northern part of the continent are worth a visit.sciencing.com/animals-north-africa-6700788.html What would have been the prey choices of the Barbary lion?
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 4, 2020 11:09:15 GMT -5
Well, definitely Gazelles, and leopards. But as we can see, the large herds of buffaloes are not in North Africa, hence, this is one reason why the Barbary lion was solitary.
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Post by brobear on Apr 6, 2020 5:18:35 GMT -5
It would be awesome if we knew at least a little of the interactions between the Atlas bear and the Barbary lion in North Africa. The Barbary lion was solitary, so there we would know how a single lion would react to a bear in the wild.
This would depend on so many unanswered questions. Before the Atlas bear became a rare endangered species ( long before these terms were heard of ) what size were they? I really doubt that those who were defeating lions in Rome were the size of small black bears. So; in supposing that these bears were basically the size of a Rocky Mountain grizzly, then there would have been little difference in size between the Atlas bear and the Barbary lion. IMHO, the relationship between lion and bear was basically the same as between tiger and bear in Russia. Lions were hunting and killing juvenile bears and less commonly adult sows. Large male bears were displacing lions at kill sites. If they were always smaller bears as commonly believed, then even the largest boars were lion prey.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 6, 2020 8:45:09 GMT -5
Thats true, i agree. Remember that centuries had gone by between the Roman Blood games and when the Atlas bear went extinct and his weight and size went down. The Atlas bear was most likely larger than those Barbary lions at the Games.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 11:45:31 GMT -5
Similar to lions surviving in Alaska I think a grizzly would quickly overheat in most parts of Africa, however assuming temperature doesn’t make a difference, it would be interesting.
I remember I saw a video of two tigers being released into Africa, for whatever reason, and it was later proven to be a very stupid idea since tigers don’t hunt in packs and rely on the forest to make their kills. I would say the same would be a big problem for a grizzly bear, assuming of course that he would be released into a savannah. If it’s a jungle then it would be very different.
I assume the bear would make most of his own kills, however I can also imagine a grizzly stealing the kills from hyenas, wild dogs, leopards and cheetahs as male lions often do the same. Wildebeest, being weaker than buffalo would likely be a massive food source for the bear as well.
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Post by brobear on Apr 7, 2020 11:30:52 GMT -5
Grizzlies once roamed all over the American prairie, often following bison herds. American grizzlies actually prefer open country to wooded country. Or, open forests where the trees are not so dense. As for temperatures, check out the Gobi bears info. But you are right that S. Africa would be a tremendous challenge for a grizzly. The dry heat, crocodiles, hippopotamus, lions, African buffalo, and poisonous snakes that he would be unfamiliar with. The list of dangers just keeps climbing for the water-loving bear. Even the honey bees are more fierce!
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Post by brobear on Apr 7, 2020 11:32:38 GMT -5
By Taipan: The Barbary lion was a Panthera leo leo population in North Africa that is regionally extinct today. This population occurred in Barbary Coastal regions of Maghreb from the Atlas Mountains to Egypt and was eradicated following the spreading of firearms and bounties for shooting lions. A comprehensive review of hunting and sighting records revealed that small groups of lions may have survived in Algeria until the early 1960s, and in Morocco until the mid-1960s. Until 2017, the Barbary lion was considered a distinct lion subspecies. Results of morphological and genetic analyses of lion samples from North Africa showed that the Barbary lion does not differ significantly from lion samples collected in West and northern parts of Central Africa. It falls into the same phylogeographic group as the Asiatic lion. Barbary lion zoological specimens range in colour from light to dark tawny. Male lion skins have short manes, light manes, dark manes or long manes. Head-to-tail length of stuffed males in zoological collections varies from 2.35 to 2.8 m (7 ft 9 in to 9 ft 2 in), and of females around 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in). Skull size varied from 30.85 to 37.23 cm (12.15 to 14.66 in). Some manes extended over the shoulder and under the belly to the elbows. The mane hair was 8 to 22 cm (3.1 to 8.7 in) long. In historical accounts, the weight of wild males was indicated as 270 to 300 kg (600 to 660 lb). Yet, the accuracy of such data is questionable; the sample size of captive Barbary lions was too small to conclude whether it was the largest lion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 9:44:05 GMT -5
I imagine bears after a while losing a good amount of their fur and fat due to the excessive heat. Probably would be smaller bears ultimately.
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Post by tom on Apr 9, 2020 13:10:17 GMT -5
I agree malikc, It may take many generations but eventually that fat layer and fur would have change to be more adaptable to the hot climate. In the meantime I think the Bears would be very prone to overheating and thus may have to conduct much of their hunting during the evening or night hours much the same as many of Africa's predators.
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Post by brobear on Apr 10, 2020 6:15:42 GMT -5
I agree malikc, It may take many generations but eventually that fat layer and fur would have change to be more adaptable to the hot climate. In the meantime I think the Bears would be very prone to overheating and thus may have to conduct much of their hunting during the evening or night hours much the same as many of Africa's predators. I haven't thought of this. You are right though. Without a doubt our African grizzly would become more nocturnal. By biggest worries would be the fact that brown bears are water-lovers. With the African heat, a grizzly is going to want to invade the space of crocodiles and hippopotamus. Things would become serious - ugly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2020 8:58:50 GMT -5
You know, I wonder about the same thing with polar bears. Because they are semi-aquatic, being able to catch and kill seals underwater.
One might be able to dominate a pond/small lake filled with crocodiles, assuming the crocodiles aren’t absolutely massive.
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Post by brobear on Apr 11, 2020 6:39:27 GMT -5
You know, I wonder about the same thing with polar bears. Because they are semi-aquatic, being able to catch and kill seals underwater. One might be able to dominate a pond/small lake filled with crocodiles, assuming the crocodiles aren’t absolutely massive. American black bears seem to deal with alligators pretty well, but no bear would be safe in the water with Nile crocodiles or salties.
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Post by brobear on May 10, 2020 13:58:09 GMT -5
After watching reply #15 over on "Other large predator videos" where 20 hyenas were very close to killing a big male lion ( who was saved when his brother showed up ) I now have to rethink that ( probably ) a dozen or more spotted hyenas just might pose a danger to a big boar grizzly. The more hyenas; the greater the danger. A grizzly has no brothers to watch his back. But where there are less than a dozen; I believe that a boar grizzly could and would displace a clan from a carcass.
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Post by tom on May 11, 2020 12:18:14 GMT -5
That's an interesting thought. If the Grizzly was of typical Yellowstone size then that's a good hypothesis that a large clan would likely be able to do the same.
But what about a 1000 lb Coastal Brown Bear? Would the odds a still be stacked against him if we're talking 15+ Hyenas?
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2020 12:24:25 GMT -5
That's an interesting thought. If the Grizzly was of typical Yellowstone size then that's a good hypothesis that a large clan would likely be able to do the same. But what about a 1000 lb Coastal Brown Bear? Would the odds a still be stacked against him if we're talking 15+ Hyenas? My thoughts ( mere speculation ) an African grizzly should be roughly the size of an Ussuri brown bear with a mature ( 10+ year old ) male averaging somewhere between 600 and 700 pounds. So, about half-way is size between a Montana grizzly and an Alaskan peninsula grizzly. A clan of spotted hyenas are ( lets face it ) a bigger threat than a wolf-pack. Just exactly how many it would take to discourage an African grizzly... I can only guess.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 25, 2020 9:21:32 GMT -5
How would the aggressive barren ground grizzly do in Africa ? I know it is outgun by the African lion in terms of weight and would lose in a fight to death. However, it chases off polar bears which are larger and stronger than African lions.
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Post by brobear on May 25, 2020 18:55:11 GMT -5
How would the aggressive barren ground grizzly do in Africa ? I know it is outgun by the African lion in terms of weight and would lose in a fight to death. However, it chases off polar bears which are larger and stronger than African lions. Bad Idea.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 25, 2020 19:24:18 GMT -5
/\ Against a larger male lion but I think the barren ground grizzly can at least usurp kills from hyenas.
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