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Post by tom on Sept 15, 2018 9:24:35 GMT -5
Per Brobear's request.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 9:36:23 GMT -5
There is a meager stretch of forest in the far north of North Africa. Separating N. Africa from S. Africa is thousands of square miles of hot sand. Sure, depending on the activities of the human-factor, either black bear or grizzly could live where the Atlas bear once lived. But South Africa would be even better for a grizzly. Again; depending on the human-factor. The Sahara Desert is what kept bears from migrating into S. Africa. I think grizzlies would thrive well in Africa.
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Post by brobear on Sept 15, 2018 9:37:58 GMT -5
I believe that grizzlies would thrive in S. Africa. I have seen pictures of open country where you could see huge termite mounds stretching far out into the horizon; bear food. Lots of small burrowing mammals; bear food. African honey bees plentiful; bear food. Wart hogs, zebra, wildebeest, and eland; bear food. Hyena kills to be robbed. Crocodile eggs and baby crocodiles; bear food. ~Tom; thank you for downloading the map.
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Post by tom on Sept 15, 2018 9:56:56 GMT -5
Interesting theory and one that I happen to agree with also. I think a Grizzly in So Africa would be predominately a scavenger as there are many predators with which he could steal kills from along with the easy meals you just mentioned. But I have to wonder and this would be open for discussion, who would then be the top predator? Lions as a pride would be a formidable foe as a unit and I think a Grizzly, even a boar would not want to mess with a pride of lions over a kill. What do y'all think?
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Post by brobear on Sept 15, 2018 10:09:29 GMT -5
No grizzly in his right mind would dare to challenge a pride of lions. Neither would the great bear challenge more than one lion over a carcass. This is pure speculation of course, but I also doubt that lions would consider a big boar grizzly as potential prey. Lions will avoid adult elephants, hippos, rhinos, and big crocodiles. I believe that they would give a large boar grizzly the same respect. Prey animals that the grizzly would avoid ( IMO ) are the same pachyderms mentioned above as well as the giraffe.
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Post by tom on Sept 15, 2018 10:22:24 GMT -5
Another question brobear, what would a Grizzly living in South Africa be like physically. Would he be similar to the Yellowstone Grizzly or the Grizzly of interior Alaska or would he be more akin to the Coastal Brown Bears of Alaska? My guess would be the Yellowstone or interior Grizzly... thoughts?
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Post by brobear on Sept 15, 2018 10:37:35 GMT -5
I believe you're right Tom. Africa cannot be considered as a lush environment; so no big coastal bear size. Neither is Africa as desolate as on the Canadian tundra or high Himalayan Mountains; so no undersized bears. Yellowstone-sized grizzly sounds right; mature male averaging roughly 500 pounds. If we are right; the average boar grizzly would outweigh the average male lion by a solid hundred pounds.
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Post by Polar on Sept 15, 2018 14:23:00 GMT -5
There is a meager stretch of forest in the far north of North Africa. Separating N. Africa from S. Africa is thousands of square miles of hot sand. Sure, depending on the activities of the human-factor, either black bear or grizzly could live where the Atlas bear once lived. But South Africa would be even better for a grizzly. Again; depending on the human-factor. The Sahara Desert is what kept bears from migrating into S. Africa. I think grizzlies would thrive well in Africa. I concur!
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Post by brobear on Sept 15, 2018 16:56:20 GMT -5
They could indeed in my humble opinion. Yes, the Atlas bear once lived in N.Africa where he, along with the Barbary lion and the Barbary leopard were hunted into extinction. Too bad that these animal were separated from the rest of Africa by the Sahara Desert. Could you just imagine seeing grizzlies on an African wildlife documentary or while on safari?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 8:43:55 GMT -5
How well do you think the atlas bear did in Africa compared to to other bears?
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2018 9:13:43 GMT -5
How well do you think the atlas bear did in Africa compared to to other bears? I believe it is obvious that they were doing quite well ( regardless of the lions ) until the human-factor brought about disaster.
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2018 9:15:54 GMT -5
I believe that, if people would not ruin it again, the gobi bear would be the best choice of a replacement bear in N.Africa. In S.Africa, the grizzly ( horribilis ). Rethinking this... Any inland species of the grizzly ( Ursus arctos ) could be reintroduced into S. Africa. A great place for endangered bears. The various subspecies would blend and adapt and, since few animals are as adaptable as a grizzly, these bears would be right at home in Africa in no-time. www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/in-south-africa-chinese-tigers-claw-their-way-back-to-life/article12594753/
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Post by brobear on Sept 28, 2018 3:45:49 GMT -5
South Africa ( not North Africa ) would be the place to introduce the grizzly. It will never happen, but its fun to imagine. For those who think that a grizzly could not survive South Africa, take a few hours to learn about the mega-fauna of Pleistocene North America. The omnivorous grizzly could obtain meat as a scavenger and kleptoparasite. As a predator, I would bet on the wart hog acquiring a new worst enemy.
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Post by brobear on Sept 29, 2018 6:37:29 GMT -5
www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-role-do-termites-play-in-a-savanna-biome.html What Role Do Termites Play In A Savanna Biome? Termites are some of the most populous animals on earth and usually exceed mammals in biomass in most ecosystems. While the insects inhabit all of the earth’s continents except Antarctica, termites are found in huge numbers in the savanna where weather conditions are ideal for the establishment of their colonies. The effects termites have on the environment are arguably most profound in the savanna biome. Some flowering plants rely on termites for pollination. An example is the Rhizanthella gardneri, which is possibly the only flower whose pollination is only done by termites. Termites are one of the few animals which can break down cellulose from dead wood. Therefore, these insects play an integral role in the reintroduction of nutrients from the dead plants into the soil. Many termite species live in underground burrows which are great in aerating the soils. Termite Mounds Offer Shelter To Many Organisms Many termite species live in subterranean colonies while others build the nest which is perched on trees. Other species such as those of the Macrotermes genus build towering earth structures known as mounds where the colony resides. These earth structures vary in size with some exceptionally large mounds being over a dozen feet in height. One mound found in the Democratic Republic of Congo stands 42 feet in height making it the tallest mound on record. Many species of ants inhabit termite mounds and nests for protection against adverse weather conditions and predators. Some ant species even co-exist with resident termites in inhabited mounds, but most species prefer abandoned mounds. These nests and mounds also offer shelter to other organisms such as scorpions, lizards, snakes, millipedes, and beetles. Termites Act As A Source Of Food Termites are a popular food item for a range of different animal species. The savanna is home to specialist termite feeders such as the aardvark which consumes huge numbers of termites in one sitting. This insectivorous animal uses its long sticky tongue to penetrate inside termite mounds and fish out the termites. Termites are also fed on by other savanna vertebrates including frogs, lizards, bats, and many bird species. Some ant species subsist purely on termites including all species in the Megaponera genus. These ants raid termite colonies and carry dead termites back to their homes. Other ant species inhabit termite mounds where they frequently make predator attacks on the resident termites. Other insects which prey on termites include wasps, crickets, and cockroaches. Tribal People Also Consume Termites Termites are a popular food item for many tribes who reside in the savanna. The insects are an important protein source and can be eaten raw or when cooked. The alates are particularly popular in many Sub-Saharan Africa countries and are collected in their thousands for consumption. Research has established that termites are packed with proteins and fats which aid in improving the diets of people in malnutrition-prone areas. Termites are also believed to have medicinal benefits by savanna inhabitants. Some tribes believe the insects can heal a variety of health ailments including sinusitis, asthma, whooping cough, influenza, and treating wounds. Such claims are yet to be supported by scientific research.
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Post by brobear on Sept 29, 2018 6:48:29 GMT -5
So, why did I post about termites here at the Domain? Because in South Africa, a grizzly would never ever starve to death. With wild honey bees, ants, and termite mounds in huge supply year-round, a grizzly in South Africa would likely not hibernate. I can envision a grizzly devouring crocodile eggs, ostrich eggs, and scavenging after wild dogs, hyenas, and leopards. The predator hierarchy would from top to bottom ( IMO ) be Nile crocodile - lion - grizzly - spotted hyena - leopard - wild dog - cheetah. These African grizzlies just might turn out to be very large bears because without hibernating, they are feeding year-round without the constant weight-change. We might would see an African grizzly with an average weight for full-grown boars at roughly 800 pounds or so ... about 450 pounds for she-bears.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 20:37:59 GMT -5
So, why did I post about termites here at the Domain? Because in South Africa, a grizzly would never ever starve to death. With wild honey bees, ants, and termite mounds in huge supply year-round, a grizzly in South Africa would likely not hibernate. I can envision a grizzly devouring crocodile eggs, ostrich eggs, and scavenging after wild dogs, hyenas, and leopards. The predator hierarchy would from top to bottom ( IMO ) be Nile crocodile - lion - grizzly - spotted hyena - leopard - wild dog - cheetah. These African grizzlies just might turn out to be very large bears because without hibernating, they are feeding year-round without the constant weight-change. We might would see an African grizzly with an average weight for full-grown boars at roughly 800 pounds or so ... about 450 pounds for she-bears. It's a good thing that a grizzly isn't a picky eater. They can eat a abundant amount of things. I got a question. Why do you put the bear beneath the lion? Is it because the lions have numbers on their side?
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Post by tom on Sept 29, 2018 22:21:00 GMT -5
So, why did I post about termites here at the Domain? Because in South Africa, a grizzly would never ever starve to death. With wild honey bees, ants, and termite mounds in huge supply year-round, a grizzly in South Africa would likely not hibernate. I can envision a grizzly devouring crocodile eggs, ostrich eggs, and scavenging after wild dogs, hyenas, and leopards. The predator hierarchy would from top to bottom ( IMO ) be Nile crocodile - lion - grizzly - spotted hyena - leopard - wild dog - cheetah. These African grizzlies just might turn out to be very large bears because without hibernating, they are feeding year-round without the constant weight-change. We might would see an African grizzly with an average weight for full-grown boars at roughly 800 pounds or so ... about 450 pounds for she-bears. It's a good thing that a grizzly isn't a picky eater. They can eat a abundant amount of things. I got a question. Why do you put the bear beneath the lion? Is it because the lions have numbers on their side? This could be true on the other hand in my opinion an African Grizzly would be more of a scavenger and steal kills from other predators or what's left of them and likely travel much greater distances in a much warmer climate between meals. Bears from Kodiak and the SW coast of Alaska as you know gorge themselves with protein and fat rich Salmon for a good chunk of the summer expending much less energy to grow to enormous sizes. An Alaskan coastal Bear likely wouldn't travel nearly as far as an African Plains Grizzly. Thus I believe they would not be as large. However, your hypothesis on not hibernating thus maintaining a consistent bodyweight year round makes sense. I would guess a fully grown boar Grizzly living on the African plains would average 600 pounds with 800 being a monster. Brute, I would have to agree that because Lions are part of prides and hunt as such that they would be too much for any Grizzly to handle. One on one is a different matter.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 3:59:19 GMT -5
Tom says: I would guess a fully grown boar Grizzly living on the African plains would average 600 pounds with 800 being a monster. *Yes, that does sound logical. Not just seasonal weight but year-round.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 7:01:48 GMT -5
DANGER's for a grizzly in South Africa ( Africa south of the Sahara Desert ). Grizzlies love water. They catch fish and they love to swim. The hippopotamus and the Nile crocodile would pose a terrible danger to the great bear. But the grizzly is a highly intelligent bear. in time, after some horrible experiences, grizzlies will learn about "water safety" in Africa. Lions! Unlike the tiger, lions are group hunters. Again, relying on intelligence, even a big boar grizzly is not going to challenge a group of lions for a carcass. But, would lions choose a big boar 600+ pound grizzly as potential prey. In my opinion, and only an opinion, I don't think so. Lions, even a coalition of big males, will not look upon a bull hippopotamus, a bull rhinoceros, or a bull elephant as potential prey. They might ( a big maybe here ) look upon a big boar grizzly the same way. If a group of lions attack a big boar grizzly - probably - at least one lion is going to end up injured or killed. Elephants and rhinoceros! The great bear would have to learn how to avoid them. Probably, small-to-medium sized crocodiles ( perhaps 6 feet long ( 1.83 m ) and under would be prey for a grizzly.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 15:16:19 GMT -5
Just try to imagine it! How popular would a documentary be catching the life of the African grizzly on film? His new lifestyle, feeding habits, and his relationship with other species. Like nothing ever seen before.
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