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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 9:45:16 GMT -5
I probably should just change the title to "Bears in Africa" since now we've moved on from Atlas bears, and there's not much information on them...
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Post by brobear on Apr 8, 2018 10:40:36 GMT -5
I probably should just change the title to "Bears in Africa" since now we've moved on from Atlas bears, and there's not much information on them... Not a problem. To replace the Atlas bear, we would have to choose something living. It would be great if some good fossil remains were found of the Atlas bear containing D.N.A. so that his species status would be confirmed and solid. The way I see it, why not replace an animal that is only missing due to human irresponsibility. But, they should go to North Africa and the bear chosen as the replacement should be some sub-species of Ursus arctos ( grizzly ).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 1:50:40 GMT -5
If grizzly bears were placed into the congo, could you see them preying on gorillas and chimps? Or similar to the Sun bears and Sloth bears, just avoiding them for the most part?
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Post by brobear on Apr 9, 2018 3:30:13 GMT -5
If grizzly bears were placed into the congo, could you see them preying on gorillas and chimps? Or similar to the Sun bears and Sloth bears, just avoiding them for the most part? The grizzly is simply not a jungle dweller. They would be living in more open country where lions and hyenas dwell. However, should a group of grizzlies adapt to the tropical environment on their own accord ( they would not purposely be placed there ), they would dominate the great apes for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 5:17:49 GMT -5
Do you guys think that these bears can survive potential snake bites? Like from cobras for example. And on that topic, what about the potential pathogens in the area? Could they adapt or potentially be wiped out by disease?
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Post by brobear on Apr 9, 2018 7:54:21 GMT -5
All through the ages animals have periodically roamed from one continent to another without dying off from diseases. As for snake bites, I assume that bears are no more immune than any other large mammal to snake poisons. Through the years I have been on a constant lookout for even a mention of bears and snakes, as where one lives there is the other. Thus far I've come up empty.
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Post by Polar on Apr 11, 2018 16:06:00 GMT -5
I think the brown bears would fare much better around Congo plains rather than in the forest. As brobear said, they are more adapted for more open areas.
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Post by brobear on Apr 12, 2018 8:57:05 GMT -5
On the African veldt and bush country are termite mounds which the grizzly would take full advantage of. Aardvarks and warthogs would likely become prey choices. African honey bees would have a new predator. Buffalo calves might be targeted, but this could prove to be a dangerous game. Displacing hyenas, wild dogs, and leopards from their kills would likely become common-place. The grizzly would of course feast on vegetation as all grizzlies do. Most dangerous to the grizzly ( outside of pouchers ) IMO would be hippos and crocodiles.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 12:01:08 GMT -5
On the African veldt and bush country are termite mounds which the grizzly would take full advantage of. Aardvarks and warthogs would likely become prey choices. African honey bees would have a new predator. Buffalo calves might be targeted, but this could prove to be a dangerous game. Displacing hyenas, wild dogs, and leopards from their kills would likely become common-place. The grizzly would of course feast on vegetation as all grizzlies do. Most dangerous to the grizzly ( outside of pouchers ) IMO would be hippos and crocodiles. I agree with you on the hippo being a threat (although I can see some determined bears trying and quickly realizing not to), but I disagree with the crocodiles being a threat unless the bear is ambushed while drinking from the water, and that goes without saying for most creatures. A determined bear very much like a determined lion or tiger could kill a crocodile while the reptile is on land. In my opinion since bears can reach much heavier weights and sizes than big cats, I can see a big bear preying on a big crocodile on land. I don't agree with animal face off battles (Animal Planet) all that much, but can any of you see a bear attempting to go after the crocodile's underbelly? Or at least eventually learning the reptiles soft spot?
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Post by brobear on Apr 12, 2018 15:45:45 GMT -5
Bears, especially grizzlies and polar bears spend a great deal of time in the water. How many bears would become crocodile food before they learn the dangers. Also, a big bull crocodile is a dangerous foe even on dry land. I watched a video once where a big bull crocodile ( probably a full-ton ) took a carcass from a whole pride of lions. I lived a lot of years in North Florida and South Georgia ( alligator country ). They are very fast and very dangerous with both jaws and tail. A grizzly prefers an easy meal if possible. The Disney Jungle Book song "Bare Necessities" really fits the bear's personality perfectly. No, a grizzly would carefully avoid a big crocodile, although he would probably feast on crocodile eggs, baby crocodiles, and Nile monitor lizards. He would also ambush herbivores coming down for a drink. *Edit and add: This does not mean that a grizzly lacks the ability to kill a crocodile ( maybe ), but it just doesn't fit into his character.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 23:58:40 GMT -5
I can see the bears falling prey if in the water. Most definitely. However I feel like a determined bear could most definitely pull it off if on land. I look at videos like the following...
Look at the size of that thing along with those massive antlers! That was pretty risky for the bear to do. Obviously it would be different since crocodiles are different than reindeer, but I can see a bear playing essentially a game of tag against the reptile. Monitor lizards and rock pythons have been killed by honey badgers. They exhaust them, and reptiles don't do well when exhausted compared to mammals.
I can easily picture a large determined grizzly harassing the reptile and avoiding their bites until the crocodile essentially burns out. From there, the bear could utilize its advantage. Don't get me wrong, after a lot of bears getting killed and eaten in the water would likely cause the bears to simply avoid them, but another possibility is that the bear would know that the crocodile dominates while in the water, but not so much on land.
As for the video of a pride of lions getting their kill stolen, my logic still applies to them as well. A decent amount of lions should be able to take down even a large crocodile if they really wanted to. Now obviously they didn't want to risk a dangerous fight, but I think if it came down to it, the reptile ends up being food.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 0:02:35 GMT -5
This was a pretty impressive feat. I don't see why a bear couldn't do the same.
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 7:02:54 GMT -5
The grizzly would have to be extremely hungry ( famished ) to launch an attack on a large 1000 to 2000 pound crocodile. Remember that lions and tigers sometimes purposely ambush huge bull buffalo. No grizzly would ever purposely choose a bull bison; they hunt bison calves. No matter how I envision this showdown, a Bull Nile crocodile is a primeval monster from a Godzilla movie. Sure, it is possible for a big 700+ pound grizzly boar to kill such a reptilian monstrosity, but at great risk. The croc is fast, quick as lightening. His massive muscular tail could easily break bones or crack ribs. Remember that we are looking at the most powerful jaws since the passing of T-rex. I'm not saying that a grizzly could not kill a big crocodile. I'm just saying that it is not in the great bear's nature to take unnecessary chances. There are many less-risky meals to be found in Africa than bull crocodiles.
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 7:11:48 GMT -5
Eland, wildebeest, and zebra might be on the grizzly's prey list. But for the most part, the bear would forage for vegetation, rodents and other small animals, warthogs and aardvarks, fish, crocodile eggs, ostrich eggs, termites and honeybees, mussels and clams, etc. To say the least; watching a "Grizzly in Africa" documentary would be a most interesting time spent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 11:05:48 GMT -5
Quick question for the bees. I know that bears eat them along with their honey, but don't they often take horrible stings to the nose in the process?
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 11:10:12 GMT -5
Quick question for the bees. I know that bears eat them along with their honey, but don't they often take horrible stings to the nose in the process? Sure; but bears have been devouring honey, bee larvae, and live bees probably as long as there has been bears. Evidently, the feast is worth a little pain.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 11:35:22 GMT -5
I'd imagine the bears no longer needing to hibernate. In fact I watched a documentary about bears and wolves. Some bears are coming out of hibernation early just to get more food from wolves through usurping. No need for it. Do you think the bears would get to bigger weights and sizes due to the amount of food in Africa, or for the most part stay the same sizes and weights?
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 13:44:02 GMT -5
I'd imagine the bears no longer needing to hibernate. In fact I watched a documentary about bears and wolves. Some bears are coming out of hibernation early just to get more food from wolves through usurping. No need for it. Do you think the bears would get to bigger weights and sizes due to the amount of food in Africa, or for the most part stay the same sizes and weights? I have read that there were several reasons for the great size of the California grizzly of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. One reason was the lush vegetation and plentiful wildlife. A well-fed grizzly is a big grizzly. Secondly, these bears had a much shorter hibernation schedule which meant more time feeding. Third, and unclear, possible genetic differences between subspecies. I know nothing about the climate of North Africa nor just how lush his environment would be. Out on the African veldt or in the bush country, these grizzlies would very likely be more in a size-range with Yellowstone grizzlies; a full-grown boar weighing roughly from 450 to 500 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 14:31:07 GMT -5
I can't remember now where I fairly recently read that in Pleistocene Europe, there were more cave hyenas than there were grey wolves. Also, same science article: the cave hyena and the African spotted hyena are/were one-and-the-same animal. This would suggest that the hyena dominated the wolf. Never-the-less, I believe that a grizzly would have no more trouble from hyenas than from wolves. Lions are entirely a different matter. Being group hunters, lions in Africa would pose a bigger threat to grizzlies than do tigers in Russia. Even a big 1000 pound grizzly would avoid a pride of lions ( IMO ).
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Post by brobear on Sept 15, 2018 6:54:41 GMT -5
There is a meager stretch of forest in the far north of North Africa. Separating N. Africa from S. Africa is thousands of square miles of hot sand. Sure, depending on the activities of the human-factor, either black bear or grizzly could live where the Atlas bear once lived. But South Africa would be even better for a grizzly. Again; depending on the human-factor. The Sahara Desert is what kept bears from migrating into S. Africa.
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