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Post by caninecat on Oct 30, 2022 5:02:50 GMT -5
hello, stumbled upon a 2019 article about the 2019 Borenean tiger. You yourself think this article is amazing that he was given a weight of 478 kg, with a mandible measurement of 206 cm, although with such a structure of the mandible, his GSL should be only 312 cm. I do not imagine that a tiger with a long skull of 312 cm would weigh 478 kg. I would like to ask you - is such a large weight estimate correct, or is the Mosbach lion still larger than this tiger?
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Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2022 5:20:44 GMT -5
Interesting post caninecat, and welcome to the Domain. I'm far from being an expert on big cats, but I'm hoping that someone here can answer your question.
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Post by brobear on Dec 26, 2022 3:32:54 GMT -5
I have listened to lion fans, for roughly 22 years now, claim the lion's main as acting like a shield protecting his neck area from the teeth and claws of an adversary. This is, according to them, a major advantage. The moon bear has a main which is probably thicker than the main of a lion. Moon bears fall prey to tigers in ambush attacks.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 26, 2022 5:12:17 GMT -5
/\ Personally I doubt the lion’s mane brings full proof protection from the tiger. For now it is still 50/50. A larger tiger would win depending on the weight difference.
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 26, 2022 5:34:45 GMT -5
My argument for the lion was never that the mane will be a supremely effective shield, so the tiger will be biting the lion's neck and the lion is all "hahaha, do your worst, you'll never penetrate my mane". No it's of course possible to overcome, as lions killing each other frequently proves. But it is some semblance of protection, and that would apply equally to the moon bear. It would actually have that scruff and thickness around the neck BECAUSE it is targetted by tigers in ambushes and that protection just makes it somewhat less vulnerable and occasionally would aid in making the tiger's ambush miss, landing it a mouthful of fur and perhaps giving the bear a split second of opportunity to take action and thwart the attack. The sun bear has loose skin in the same area for the same reason, and the sloth bear also has some scruff and thickness in that area. It's not impenetrable and doesn't make them impervious, neither did chain mail make medieval soldiers impervious, it just made SOME would-be lethal strikes glance away.
The bigger picture, for me, with the lion, is that it has the luxury to evolve protection. Even if it's mediocre protection, that's not really the point for me. Just the fact it has been allowed to specialise somewhat for combat, due to having the support of a social unit IF it can succeed in combat. That's a significant clue to the fight focus in it's evolution, and makes me confident in a fight it will be the one more comfortable and composed. If you want to argue a tiger can bite straight through a mane and it offers zero protection, I could possibly be swayed, doesn't change the bigger point of what the mane indicates, which is the lion has evolved to fight. That's always been my curiosity with the mane, not it's protective properties, but the sacrifices implied which point to specialisation for combat.
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Post by brobear on Dec 26, 2022 6:21:31 GMT -5
Good answer hardcastle.
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Post by brobear on Jan 19, 2023 4:13:33 GMT -5
The last documentary on lions that I watched stated that the lions' mane evolved to attract females; like the tail feathers of a turkey or a peacock. The fact that they might be somewhat helpful in a fight being an added bonus. But then, that's all theory. I remember well the numerous face-off sites during the heyday of face-off forums during the early 2000s. In each and every animal face-off forum, the most popular was always the lion vs tiger topic. This was the only face-off event that drew more attention than lion or tiger vs bear. Unlike bear fans, both lion and tiger fans openly post false information, fake data, and bald-face lies. But, when you weasel your way through all the crap (knee-deep), and look at the actual facts, for every advantage that a lion has in this fight, the tiger also has an advantage. Both the lion fans and the tiger fans strongly believe that his chosen big cat is the better of the two. For me; it's a cat-fight that solely depends on the individuals of each contest. I hold to my vote of this being a 50/50 contest. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ I really wish that there were not so much false information spread all over the internet by juvenile radical fanboys and equally radical fake professors (forum admins). Those sites, filled with false information as well as truthful but misleading information (which is equally devious and wrong), are read by school children and adults alike; leaving them with false ideas. This is why so much of the 'Domain Of The Bears' is dedicated to big cat vs bear themes. I would much rather dedicate this forum to the knowledge and better understanding of bears without the nerdish fan-wars. However, if every bear fan were to remained silent, then the whole world's population would believe that tigers routinely go face-to-face with huge male brown bears and kill them easily without receiving so much as a scratch to themselves. And that is exactly what the tiger fans are teaching. Professional biologists are also to blame. Yes; even though they speak truthfully, by leaving out the details, they are feeding into peoples' minds false images. When Professor Tigerman says, "Amur tigers hunt and kill both black bears and brown bears" with no more detail than that, they are spreading false ideas. *Note: I don't know of a single bear fan who purposely spreads false information. Sure, a bear fan might get some things wrong from time-to-time, but we never hide the truth nor post false information purposely. We do not post half-truths to mislead our readers. We do not post bare-faced lies.
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Post by hardcastle on Jan 19, 2023 18:31:01 GMT -5
It can definitely be both. In fact it usually kind of goes hand in hand that sexual selection supplements natural selection. Like in humans when women like muscular long strong arms, that's not like random peacock feathers, it's because those arms are useful and will build her a home and fight off lepards or whatever. Lionesses are attracted to manes, but that doesn't mean they are useless, it means they're trying not to waste their time selecting a mate who will then be destroyed in 6 months and have his babies massacred. All sub-consciously of course, they are just like "heyyyy... nice mane", but that's the reason their sexual selection is governed that way. They actually prefer dark manes, and that's because dark maned lions typically, not always, have higher testosterone levels than light maned lions. So they are just kind of hedging their bets that a dark maned lion will PROBABLY hopefully kick ass, and they only do this if there is no real fight to decide properly. So ultimately the natural selection of winning fights will be the true decider. Lionesses just want to try not to waste time.
Even peacock feathers might not be totally frivolous. They are kind of a boast by the male, that "hey I can have these insane lavish over the top tail feathers and STILL evade leopards, I must be really something". Similarly camels actually "brag" to females that they are boss camels by recklessly wasting their water supplies. Anti-survival behaviour, but it's a flex to show how good they are at desert survival. The females are attracted to this stupidity.
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Post by brobear on Jan 19, 2023 20:20:36 GMT -5
hardcastle, you have convinced me. great explanations.
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Post by Granolah on Jan 19, 2023 21:53:52 GMT -5
I favor the tiger, I used to be a hardcore tiger fan (argued on YT with BoldChamp and counter strike) some of my friends can confirm that too, and I still am somewhat. But bears are on a whole nother level.
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Post by brobear on Jan 20, 2023 2:10:19 GMT -5
hardcastle, you have convinced me. great explanations. I'm still in the middle, although hardcastle has convinced me that the mane adds some amount of protection. This also makes since considering that both the sloth bear and the moon bear have a type of mane. The sun bear lacks this, but he is an arboreal bear. The brown bear simply has a thick neck. Bold Champ was among my first adversaries in these animal forums roughly 22 years ago. I could bad-mouth him, but I choose not to. Besides, I would be breaking my own rules again if I did. One good thing I can say for the bold one, he could post without ever "loosing his cool". Oh, and btw, bears are definitely on a whole 'nuther level. Tigers rarely hunt even the little sun bear.
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Post by hardcastle on Jan 20, 2023 7:13:45 GMT -5
I'd say the sun bear has a "mane" of loose skin. It's environment is possibly too humid for a regular mane, or it's just a randomly alternative approach to the same problem. Either way the bite of a would-be predator doesn't quite target the vitals they intend to target with the accuracy they normally would if nothing was there.
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Post by brobear on Nov 2, 2023 2:30:03 GMT -5
Lion vs Tiger
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Post by Montezuma on Jan 5, 2024 16:22:11 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Jan 6, 2024 5:24:33 GMT -5
@ausar, if you want to disrespect someone then go home and learn education.
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Post by Montezuma on Jan 7, 2024 15:17:52 GMT -5
@ausar, if you want to disrespect someone then go home and learn education. Its ok bro. He is deleted. Wonder what he wanted here and what was he saying?
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