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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2021 15:34:28 GMT -5
The "Lion vs Tiger" debate is ( I feel certain ) thousands of years old. What if a lone lion were to come face-to-face with a lone tiger of similar size and from there they must struggle for supremacy? Of course, some tiger subspecies are larger than others. The same holds true with the lion. But, let's say we have a large lion face-to-face against a tiger of similar size. The lion stands slightly taller due to his longer legs. The Bengal tiger likely has a slight weight advantage.
According to our collected data: Average Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. Average Bengal tigress - 304.2 pounds. Average Asian lion - 360.2 pounds. (n=9) Average Asian lioness - 256.4 pounds. (n=14) So, if we look at the most likely place for a lion to meet a tiger, the tiger will ( in most cases ) have roughly a 100 pound weight advantage. But, if we look at the African lions, then we can produce a more fair comparison. Average Namibian/Zimbabwe lion - 434.3/423.3 pounds. (n=23/59) Average Namibian/Zimbabwe lioness - 313.1/313.1 pounds. (n=37/33)
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Post by tom on Jul 16, 2021 15:52:15 GMT -5
I will just start off by saying that Lions are born fighters. Cubs from a Lion pride are constantly play fighting even the younger cubs get picked on by the slightly older ones. Pride males fight to protect the pride and ward off rogue males until one day their reign is done and they themselves are cast out by the younger, stronger challengers. So in essence Lions fight their entire lives and are generally good at it. They take part in hunting large African Plains game although most large plains game is hunted and killed by the Lioness the males do chip in when dangerous game is the intended target.
Now... whether that gives the Lion some advantages over the Tiger in a head on fight I guess that is open for debate. My boots are off and feet are up and popcorn in hand. ready for the action.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 16, 2021 16:08:39 GMT -5
I voted draw. The tiger is heavier and stronger but the lion engages in more territorial fights and has the mane. If the tiger had a decent weight advantage, it will win. Otherwise it is about 50/50.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2021 16:09:16 GMT -5
Some will argue that tigers are bigger and stronger than lions. However, tigers have a far greater size range than do lions. Therefore, when considering all subspecies, then the average lion is heavier than the average tiger. However, the two "big boys" of the tiger tribe are indeed the largest of the big cats. I agree that pure aggression is a powerful force; as is fighting experience. But a tiger often has his own harem of females, although they each live alone and hunt alone. So, perhaps a tiger acquires some fighting experience as well. I view the lion vs tiger debate as being similar to American black bear vs Asiatic black bear. They are too similar for me ( personally ) to claim one above the other. I would wager on the biggest individual in any particular fight.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 16, 2021 16:50:30 GMT -5
It depends if the subspecies I guess. I know there is an animal trainer that says the lion wins 9/10. However, it is probably because lions are better at gang fighting too. I doubt one can beat the other 9/10 of the time.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2021 18:01:51 GMT -5
At this point; after so many years of talk-talk-talk, I doubt that Asiatic lions will ever be allowed to live in the wild outside of Gir National Park. Therefore, a meeting between lion and tiger in the wild is highly unlikely to ever happen. *Clash of the Indian big cats: An Asiatic lion taking on a Bengal tiger:
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 16, 2021 21:57:29 GMT -5
/\ The clash probably happen when the animals were more numerous back in these days.
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Post by brobear on Jul 17, 2021 5:10:16 GMT -5
/\ The clash probably happen when the animals were more numerous back in these days. You would think that such incidences would have been written about. But, probably less encounters than one might think. Lions prefer open country while tigers prefer forests. Also, a lion is seldom a loner; although perhaps more so in Asia than in Africa.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 14:19:50 GMT -5
I give tiger the edge at same weight because of the agility, better grappling (one study suggesting so and also they look to be better as well) and I prefer tigers fighting method which is more on 2 legs than lions. Tigers fight more like bears than lions in that way I believe.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 17, 2021 21:50:37 GMT -5
It looks like the vote for tiger and draw have a tie at the moment.
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Post by tom on Jul 18, 2021 18:15:36 GMT -5
It looks like the vote for tiger and draw have a tie at the moment. I really thought starting this thread would draw some more members out of hiding and even entice visitors to join. Been kind of dead around here.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 18, 2021 18:23:49 GMT -5
It looks like the vote for tiger and draw have a tie at the moment. I really thought starting this thread would draw some more members out of hiding and even entice visitors to join. Been kind of dead around here. Eventually it will happen. It always does. In the meantime, feel free to quote my posts. I promise to keep things civil 🙂. How aggressive do you think a lion is compared to a tiger?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 18, 2021 18:24:53 GMT -5
Looks like to votes a equal now 🙀.
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Post by tom on Jul 18, 2021 18:32:39 GMT -5
I really thought starting this thread would draw some more members out of hiding and even entice visitors to join. Been kind of dead around here. Eventually it will happen. It always does. In the meantime, feel free to quote my posts. I promise to keep things civil 🙂. How aggressive do you think a lion is compared to a tiger? Both can be aggressive. However, Lions as I stated in my original post are born fighters. Play fighting as cubs to real fighting as adults. Being more aggressive isn't always the precursor to victory however. www.scienceabc.com/nature/animals/lion-vs-tiger-who-do-you-think-wins-if-they-get-in-a-fight.htmlQuoted from the link. I found highlighted statement interesting after just stating Lions are born fighters.
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Post by brobear on Jul 18, 2021 19:01:13 GMT -5
Even though they are so similar, a long list of advantages can be made for each of the two. According to historical fights, recorded in age-old newspapers, both have defeated the other many times. But, we all know how unreliable such sources are. I have read accounts of a lion defeating one tiger after another while also reading similar tales of the tiger doing the same over the lion. In any face-off between a lion and a tiger of same sex, I would wager on the heavier individual. While weight does not provide a guaranteed win, it is an advantage. At similar weight, I would not wager one way or the other. Also, I would keep a good distance from them. The big cats are no joke. I will edit and add: There is no confirmed account of a lion vs tiger fight in the wild. Therefore, we have nothing solid to give us an answer.
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Post by tom on Jul 19, 2021 6:35:35 GMT -5
Another quote from the link I posted which in of itself is probably closest to the best opinion.
Truth is all Lions are not equal just as not all Tigers are equal. Meaning good fighters. Not all men are good fighters either so it likely is an individual thing. Even opinions from experts are really just educated guesses unless they have witnessed countless fights between the two cats.
I voted for the Lion purely on his fighting experience from cub to adult. No other large Cat has been born and raised to do just that more than the Lion.
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Post by tom on Jul 19, 2021 6:36:27 GMT -5
Let it not end here fellas, I still want to hear your compelling reasons why you think one would defeat the other.
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Post by brobear on Jul 19, 2021 6:47:34 GMT -5
Let it not end here fellas, I still want to hear your compelling reasons why you think one would defeat the other. Quote, "I voted for the Lion purely on his fighting experience from cub to adult. No other large Cat has been born and raised to do just that more than the Lion." I agree. While male tigers are often found living well past their prime, old male lions seem to be a rarity. During my early years of animal face-off forums, I was strictly for the tiger in this particular topic. Basically ( IMO ) it is weight and strength vs aggression and experience. Some lion fans will argue that the tiger is not the stronger of the two. I'm no expert on the big cats; I don't know.
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Post by brobear on Jul 19, 2021 6:51:26 GMT -5
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/773/weight-collection?page=1 Average mature Amur tiger (historical) - 477.3 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (historical) - 303.1 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 418.9 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (contemporary) - 266.8 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (general) - 447.5 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (general) - 284.4 pounds. Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. Average mature Bengal tigress - 304.2 pounds. Average mature Caspian tiger: 434.3 pounds. Average mature Caspian tigress: 266.8 pounds. Average mature Indochinese tiger: 425.5 pounds. Average mature Indochinese tigress: 253.5 pounds Average mature South China tiger: 335.1 pounds. Average mature South China tigress: 228 pounds. Average mature Malayan tiger: 265.9 pounds. Average mature Malayan tigress: 217.2 pounds. Average mature Sumatran tiger: 271.2 pounds. Average mature Sumatran tigress: 216.1 pounds. Average mature Javan tiger: 276.7 pounds. Average mature Javan tigress: 209.4 pounds. Average mature Bali tiger: 209.4 pounds. Average mature Bali tigress: 159.8 pounds. Average Panthera tigris tigris (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all former subspecies) - 387.4 pounds for males and 257.5 pounds for females. Average Panthera tigris sondaica (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all former subspecies) - 271.2 for males and 216.1 pounds for females. Average Panthera tigris (species, extant, concluded out of the two present subspecies) - 329.3 pounds for males and 236.8 pounds for females.
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Post by brobear on Jul 19, 2021 6:52:55 GMT -5
Average mature South African lion - 421 pounds. (n=80) Average mature South African lioness - 284.4 pounds. (n=111)
Average mature Namibian/Zimbabwe lion - 434.3/423.3 pounds. (n=23/59) Average mature Namibian/Zimbabwe lioness - 313.1/313.1 pounds. (n=37/33)
Average mature East African lion - 383.6 pounds. (n=71) Average mature East African lioness - 266.8 pounds. (n=42)
Average mature Botswana lion - 405.6 pounds. (n=22) Average mature Botswana lioness - 310.9 pounds. (n=14)
Average mature Ethiopian lion - 302.5 pounds. (n=9) Average mature Ethiopian lioness - 285.7 pounds. (n=9)
Average mature West African lion - 348.3 pounds. (n=8) Average mature West African lioness - 211.6 pounds. (n=7)
Average Asian lion - 360.2 pounds. (n=9) Average Asian lioness - 256.4 pounds. (n=14)
Average Panthera leo melanochaita (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all the former subspecies inhabiting East/South Africa) - 388.3 pounds for males and 291.1 pounds for females (n=264 and n=246) Average Panthera leo leo (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all the former subspecies inhabiting Asia/West Africa) - 354.3 pounds for males and 234 pounds for females (n=17 and n=21)
Average Panthera leo (species, extant, concluded out of the two present subspecies) - 371.3 pounds for males and 262.6 pounds for females (n=282 and n=267)
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