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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2022 11:55:03 GMT -5
I don't view the sloth bear as a co-predator/competitor to the tiger. The sloth bear feeds almost entirely upon insects and fruit. Meat, usually carrion, only on rare occasion.
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Post by brobear on Feb 2, 2022 3:03:56 GMT -5
About the topic "Lion vs Tiger"... as I have mentioned a few times. This face-off topic is overwhelmingly the most popular face-off topic in animal face-off history. This amazes me. There must be millions of undying big cat fanboys out there, as many lion fans as there are tiger fans. If we put them all on a battle field with guns, it would play-out like the Battle of Gettysburg - a bloody mess! And these lion and tiger fanboys get just that angry. They post the same meaningless animal fight events which are taken from old newspapers of the 19th and early 20th centuries over and over and over. Not one such post carries any weight. They also attempt to compare these big cats bone for bone and muscle for muscle; still proving nothing. And, of course, they compare tooth to tooth and claw to claw. If they can't find any science to defend their chosen big cat, they simply create some. ( IMO ) Lion vs Tiger is a cat-fight, plain and simple. Us bear fans could go on-and-on about Asiatic black bear vs American black bear or Kodiak bear vs polar bear or Andean bear vs giant panda - but we don't. For me, some interesting animal vs animal topics are grey wolf vs spotted hyena - saltwater crocodile vs tiger shark - great one-horned rhinoceros vs hippopotamus - Eastern silverback gorilla vs American black bear - Kodiak bear vs Sumatran rhinoceros. In reality ( a concept bear fans understand ) Amur tiger vs Ussuri brown bear is a total mismatch highly in favor of the bear. Even though this face-off ( coincidentally ) is a completely fair fight as each adversary has, on average, equal HB length. However, when we compare them at equal HB length, we clearly see that the brown bear has a weight advantage of roughly 200 pounds. This is because when compared fairly, the far greater girth of the bear becomes unmistakable. A bear is simply more robust than a cat. In reality, ( IMO ) lion and tiger are simply too evenly matched for a sensible debate. When a big male tiger comes face-to-face with a big male lion, anything can happen. I wouldn't wager on either as this fight could easily go either way. No shoe-in to be found here.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 5, 2022 0:49:51 GMT -5
According to the pole votes. It seems like ‘draw’ and ‘lion’ are taking the lead in terms of votes.
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Post by brobear on Mar 10, 2022 1:09:11 GMT -5
Two major events we have been patiently waiting for: 1- We have had rumors and rumors of rumors that Asiatic lions would be granted more wild land in Asia to roam and hunt. This would be wonderful for the lions, as their population would advance and they would have less inbreeding. For us here at home, regardless of where home is, more lions in Asia could bring about some interesting events, such as lion meets tiger and lion meets bear. 2- We are now aware of the tigers who dwell high up in the Himalayan Mountains. Thus far, we have no news of a tiger meets brown bear event. Both the Himalayan brown bear and the Tibetan brown bear are diminutive in size ( as compared with most other brown bear subspecies ). Therefore, we could possibly be granted our first-ever account of a tiger killing a full-grown male brown bear.
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Post by Montezuma on Mar 11, 2022 21:30:56 GMT -5
I think that a tiger will still avoid a bear because the bear is a bear. Especially, a frontal attack.
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Post by brobear on Mar 12, 2022 1:18:20 GMT -5
I think that a tiger will still avoid a bear because the bear is a bear. Especially, a frontal attack. I agree about "frontal attack". If a tiger kills a brown bear in the Himalayan Mountains, juvenile, female, or male, it will be from ambush.
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Post by brobear on Mar 15, 2022 0:38:15 GMT -5
Tigers: A fresh look at the size of tigers. Average weight of male tigers: Javan tiger - 110 kg or 242 pounds. Sumatran tiger - 118 kg or 260 pounds. Malayan tiger - 120.6 kg or 266 pounds. South Chinese tiger - 152 kg or 335 pounds. Indochinese tiger - 191 kg or 421 pounds. Caspian tiger - 197 kg or 434 pounds. Bengal tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds. Amur tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Mar 15, 2022 0:41:33 GMT -5
Lions: A fresh look at the size of lions. Average weight of male lions: Ethiopian lion - 137.2 kg or 302 pounds. West African lion - 158 kg or 348 pounds. Asian lion - 163.4 kg or 360 pounds. East African lion - 174 kg or 384 pounds. Botswana lion - 184 kg or 406 pounds. Zimbabwe lion - 192 kg or 423 pounds. South African lion - 192 kg or 423 pounds. Nambia lion - 197 kg or 434 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Mar 15, 2022 0:47:07 GMT -5
Which big cat is the biggest big cat? The two largest tigers are the biggest of the big cats. However, if we were to average-out every subspecies of each of these two species, then we find that the average lion is bigger than the average tiger. So, the answer to "who is bigger, the lion or the tiger?" is a matter of your point of view.
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Post by brobear on Apr 17, 2022 11:43:46 GMT -5
Montezuma Lion is more robust and a better grappler? May be your opinion but none of this is true; when looking at scientific studies it is indicated that jaguars/tigers are the best technicians among modern pantherines and it's the Bengal tiger who carries more mass per length as well as more mass per shoulder height than the African lion. I'd recommend you to look up information by addressing reasonable sources and not some Tapatalk forum managed by lion/tiger fanatics. Lions fight more often but does that indicate they are the better fighter? No, it's not about quantity. ( IMO ) 'Taker is right on the money here. At equal HB length, the average tiger will outweigh the average lion. Also, simply from observation, with the lion being adapted to open country as opposed to the tiger being a forest predator, the lion appears to be evolving towards being more "dog-like" while the tiger remains totally cat-like. The lion; longer legs per HB length. Longer muzzle. Spends more time giving chase. Consider how the grassland-living cheetah even has dog-like feet. *This does not mean that I would change my vote from a 50/50 as there are many advantages on both sides to be put onto the table.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 23, 2022 2:41:32 GMT -5
Ignoring the endless paragraphs by the fanatics wanting to discredit the other cat's advantages, I'll post a picture of a prime male Bengal tiger below and it should explain by itself why I'd go for the tiger in a fight; to me they look more impressive in terms of physicality and I like the cats who are more "bearish" than the other with comparatively extremely bulky forelimbs which serve as the main apparatus during grappling. In my opinion the jaguar and the tiger could beat any other extant cat at the same weight assuming some hypothetical scaling scenario (between the two my heart belongs to the jaguar).
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Post by brobear on Apr 23, 2022 2:53:18 GMT -5
I see this clearly, that a picture is worth a thousand words, not to mention seeing them in the flesh at zoos ( although healthy wild specimens would be even more impressive ). When I look at a jaguar or a tiger, I clearly see a stronger big cat. Comparing a tiger to a lion or a jaguar to a leopard is just this side of being ridiculous. The main thing a lion has going for him is aggression and more of a willingness to fight face-to-face ( unless this point is more hype and factual ).
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 23, 2022 3:02:38 GMT -5
The thing is that jaguars and tigers are living in a dense jungle and their forelimbs are rather short in relation to their overall body length to improve acceleration in order to quickly move through the tricky vegetation; African leopards, cheetahs and lions are out there in the open plains (very few exceptions with lions except for Ethiopia and the wet season of the Okavango delta, more exceptions for the leopard due to his widespread distribution) and thus their forelimbs are adapted to covering longer distances; hence thickening on the midshafts of the bones and longer forearms in relation to the upperarms to cope with the running stresses (the same can be observed in the prehistoric short-faced bears; it's always "form follows function" in terms of morphology). In terms of cranial morphology, jaguars and tigers have proportionally short but very wide skulls and leopards/lions have proportionally longer skulls, also interesting to observe. Lions may be more confrontational due to their lifestyle but that doesn't mean a tiger won't be able to cope with the adrenalin of a fight; I mean there was a tiger called "Umarpani" who killed about every rival male invading his territory, even the mighty "Kingfisher" who was much bigger than him and probably one of the biggest tigers to ever live. All this "hype" you mentioned comes from certain people basing their opinions on pathetic early 20th century circus clowns training captive animals having nothing to do with the real deal roaming the wilderness.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 23, 2022 8:24:56 GMT -5
I made two quick comparison pictures between the two scaled to the same SH in identical posture; it's clueless to compare their forelimb robusticity as one of them has a clear and huge advantage over the other. The lion would need to be a whole head taller to reach the same level of thickness in the arms:
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Post by brobear on Apr 25, 2022 3:06:09 GMT -5
IF scaled at equal HB length, I believe that the lion would be taller while the tiger would be heavier. ( typically )
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horribilis
Parictis
“You have no idea how powerful the truth can be.” - Oliver Queen
Posts: 47
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Post by horribilis on Apr 27, 2022 8:13:21 GMT -5
In a hypothetical fight to death scenario between an average mainland bengal tiger and southern african lion where both the opponents are equally motivated to kill each other , I'd say the tiger wins since it's comparatively bigger on average . When it comes to a pound for pound matchup , it's more or less 50:50 but I'd slightly favor the tiger here too, due to it being more agile and possessing more robust forelimbs on a pound per pound basis (very important factor in grappling) . Tigers also seem to be more muscular and thick at similar dimensions since they've got the physical attributes of a typical forest dwelling cat rather than a cursorial animal like the lion. When it comes to fighting styles , lions adopt a quadruped stance and use one of their paws to strike whereas tigers adopt a bipedal stance and use both of their paws simultaneously to strike . However , lions too adopt a bipedal stance when fighting with other lions or similar sized cats(tigers in captivity) , but they tend to lose their balance quickly in such fights . So , I quite deem the tiger's fighting style to be more efficient since it can deliver more blows and can make the lion lose it's balance more often than not . The areas where lions hold the advantage will be fighting experience and paw swipes . Lions , being in social groups , are known to engage in fights more frequently compared to tigers , which is a solitary animal . Although tigers use both of their paws simultaneously , their swipes don't carry as much force as that of the maned cat and can be compared to the 'jabs' in boxing whereas the maned cat uses only one of it's paws but seem to carry considerable amount of force behind that swipe and can be quite compared to the 'overhands' in boxing. Now , another fact to consider here is stamina and cats in general have poor stamina but in my opinion , lions hold the slight edge here due to them engaging in more of these long drawn out conflicts and they're comparatively less muscular than tigers and we all know muscle mass is inversely proportional to stamina . In short , you can't have the best of both worlds. So overall , both of them have got their own advantages and disadvantages but the striped feline has it over the maned cat in most of the areas that matter.
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horribilis
Parictis
“You have no idea how powerful the truth can be.” - Oliver Queen
Posts: 47
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Post by horribilis on May 6, 2022 14:33:59 GMT -5
Brilliant stuff , yz . Keep up the good work !
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Post by yz on May 6, 2022 16:26:22 GMT -5
Brilliant stuff , yz . Keep up the good work ! Thank you for the feedback.
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Post by brobear on Aug 8, 2022 22:53:02 GMT -5
Bengal Tiger - South African (Kruger Lion)
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Post by brobear on Aug 9, 2022 0:00:22 GMT -5
Tiger vs Lion who wins: I voted draw. I have been reading those heated debates or (very often) verbal fights for over 20 years and I know that either side of this debate has their good reasons to believe that their chosen champion would win this fight. IMO - and it's just an opinion - the Amur or Bengal tiger is typically heavier and stronger than the typical African lion while the lion is typically more aggressive and normally has more fighting experience. The biggest tiger subspecies is bigger than the biggest lion subspecies. But, it is also true that the smallest tiger subspecies is smaller than the smallest lion subspecies. I simply see two evenly matched big cats. But, I will not argue with anyone who views things differently.
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