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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 10:18:33 GMT -5
By WOLVERINE ( a big cat enthusiast ).
Probably not only big male bears but any adult male brown bear. If the adult male tiger Matkasur weighting 200-220 kg from the famous video didn't succeed to overwhelm a smallish female Sloth bear weighting only 90-100 kg (that's the average mass of the female) and actually lost the battle how come a tiger can be stronger than adult male Ussuri brown bear with average weight of 270 kg... ?. That's unthinkable.
Its time for us - tiger lovers and lion lovers to open our eyes in the front of the truth and admit that the brown bear is way stronger than any cat. Sadly.
Nevertheless the obligatory predators as the big cats somehow are much more charismatic and excite human imagination much more than the omnivorus animals. ___________________________________________________________________________ *In my own words: Average mature Amur tiger (historical) - 477.3 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (historical) - 303.1 pounds.
Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 418.9 pounds. Average mature Amur tigress (contemporary) - 266.8 pounds.
Average mature male Ussuri brown bear (5+ years) - 595 pounds. Average full-grown Ussuri brown bear ( 9+ years ) - from 650 to 700 pounds. Average mature female Ussuri brown bear (5 years+) - 416.7 pounds.
*Fact: Realistically, a full-grown male Ussuri brown bear has a weight advantage of 200+ pounds.
*Fact: A tiger has a difficult struggle in a face-to-face fight even with a female sloth bear half his own weight.
*Fact: Pound-for-pound, no living bear species is as strong as a brown bear.
*Fact: A tiger cannot make a quick kill with a bite to the base of the neck on a full-grown brown bear.
( IMO ): my estimation of Ussuri brown bear vs tiger in a face-off - bear 19 out of 20 is not unrealistic. But, because I give this estimation, which is based on facts, I am labeled a fanboy - this and the fact that I state the *fact that tigers are ambush predators. ( which the fanboys deny ).
*Note: that one out of twenty where the tiger kills the bear - a fluke ( a quirk ). But the amazing can and does happen. In truth: Ussuri brown bear vs tiger is a mismatch in favor of the bear.
*Note: moderators will be keeping a sharp eye open for any false information or inaccuracies. . . A bear enthusiast has no reason to lie, cheat, or to post fake data.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 14:22:22 GMT -5
How big is a black grizzly?
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 14:28:27 GMT -5
According to above chart... ( Russian black grizzly ). Males: head and body length from 164 cm to 252 cm ( 5 feet 5 inches to 8 feet 3 inches ) - average 196 cm ( 6 feet 5 inches ). shoulder height from 100 cm to 128 cm ( 3 feet 3 inches to 4 feet 2 inches ) - average 115 cm ( 3 feet 9 inches ). chest circumference from 121 cm to 154 cm ( 3 feet 11 inches to 5 feet 7 inches ) - average 137 cm ( 4 feet 6 inches ). weight from 260 kg to 321 kg ( 573 pounds to 708 pounds ) - average 264 kg ( 582 pounds ). Females: head and body length from 137 cm to 230 cm ( 4 feet 6 inches to 7 feet 7 inches ) - average 160 cm ( 5 feet 3 inches ). shoulder height from 82 cm to 126 cm ( 2 feet 8 inches to 4 feet 2 inches ) - average 96 cm ( 3 feet 2 inches ). chest circumference from 120 cm to 149 cm ( 3 feet 11 inches to 4 feet 11 inches ) - average 132 cm ( 4 feet 4 inches ). weight from 120 kg to 280 kg ( 265 pounds to 617 pounds ) - average 189 kg ( 417 pounds ).
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 14:41:15 GMT -5
Black grizzly compared with an Asiatic black bear.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 14:44:26 GMT -5
It is believed by biologists that the American grizzly is a direct descendant of the Russian black grizzly.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:36:38 GMT -5
Sikhote Alin - www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/sikhote.htmlSikhote Alin Biosphere Sanctuary was established in 1935 and is the largest of the Ussuriland reserves. It is particularly notable for being home to both the Amur tiger and the equally endangered Amur leopard. A tiger census in the 1980s estimated a minimum of 250 and a maximum of 430 tigers over the total area of Russia and 25 of these were located in this important reserve. The census was good news in that it confirmed a gradual increase in numbers from an all-time low of 20-30 Amur tigers in the 1930s. But in other ways it's becoming increasingly obvious that conservation and protection of this subspecies is extremely limited. For instance, the late 1980s saw the Russians seriously considering a suggestion to reduce tiger numbers by allowing sport hunting. One of the big problems with this subspecies is that Amur tigers generally reside outside of reserves like Sikhote Alin. They travel through them rather than living mostly within their confines. Only about 20% of the Amur tiger population is thought to actually remain within park boundaries. Once the big cat departs there is no protection from poachers or commercial logging, they have a very limited prey base and no friends in the local communities. It is quite important to realise that the native people are firmly on the side of the poachers. They will shelter, aid and assist them. It's not too surprisingly really; after all, the tigers attack their stock and family members. When prey is short tigers even appear in the streets of Vladivostok, with the usual result being they have to be shot and killed. Sikhote Alin is home for 20-25 tigers. Other important species in the area include Asiatic black bears, brown bears, wolves, leopards, musk and sika deer, elk, moose, wild boar and an unusual species of goat-antelope known as the Amur goral. This animal is covered under the Lazovskiy Reserve information; due to the predation of man it is an endangered species. In total the sanctuary contains 63 species of mammal and 1100 species of plant, 38 of these being very rare or disappearing species (Japanese yew, Wild Amur grape, rhododendron Fauri, Amur phellodendron). There are 375 known species of bird. The main dangers to wildlife with Sikhote Alin come from illegal hunting (poaching), forest fires, and the growing of hay fields within the sanctuary boundaries. Although it is known the tiger population is being adversely affected by these factors to what degree this is happening has yet to be established. On top of this, approximately one third of this sanctuary is unsuitable as tiger habitat. It either lacks the required prey base, or the vegetation is not appropriate.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:37:17 GMT -5
Lazovskiy Lazovskiy (formerly Sudzukhinskiy) Reserve is now considered one of the most important reserves in Russia. Once home to many tigers, numbers gradually reduced until by the mid-1930s there were none to be found in the area. 15 years were to pass before another Amur tiger was sighted and it took until the mid-1960s before an established and permanent population had once again developed.
The most recent survey of Lazovskiy zapovednik was carried out in early 1993; it located 22 cats (14 adults and eight juveniles). Another 10 tigers were found on the periphery of the reserve, but these would not be permanent residents and through leaving the reserve become prone to the effects of poaching, lack of prey, and logging. There are plans to enlarge the territory of this reserve to 310,000 ha.
Lazovskiy is also a valuable area for the conservation of the Amur goral, a type of goat-antelope. Both sexes carry a set of short, sharp, backwards-curving horns, with scent glands at the base. Their heavy winter coat means they're ideally designed for cold wintry areas. They spend most of their time high in the mountains among freezing temperatures and heavy snowfall. With little food around they can survive on just snow-covered twigs and spend much of their time lying curled up on snowy outcrops which their brown woolly coat lends them the appearance of a rock. This also provides camouflage from predators like the tiger, leopard and lynx, who will attempt to attack goral if the opportunity arises. Fortunately for the goral, they are extremely agile and usually make an escape by taking to the nearest inaccessible rock ledges.
During the warmer parts of the year they'll come lower to graze on evergreen foliage and acorns. They'll also drink seawater or lick seaweed if this is available. It provides necessary minerals for their wellbeing.
Goral live in groups of 15 to 30 animals and females give birth to one or two kids each year. They retire to a cave for the birth and tend to use the same caves year after year as there are not that many sheltered areas to be found.
Not much is known about the goral and there are very, very few in captivity (only 5 zoos in the United States hold goral). The unfavourable conditions make studying this animal very difficult, but it is known that the goral's biggest predator, and the reason they are now endangered, is man. Warm fur, tasty meat, and use in Eastern folk medicines means this animal is hunted extensively. Blood, heart, and even embryos are all used in medicines which provide no benefit to the people who consume them. On top of this, logging, grazing of domestic stock and fires all threaten the reserve as a whole.
Another 57 species of mammal are located here including Sika deer, lynx, leopard, Manchurian deer, wild boar, Asiatic black bear, brown bear, otter, sable, musk deer, yellow-throated marten, and the squirrel. There are 18 fish species, 17 amphibians and 292 bird species.
60 of 1,300 plants growing in Lazovskiy zapovednik are considered to be endemic, 135 are valuable medicinal plants. The small Petrov Island, where the flora are most abundant is called a Natural Arboretum.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:37:49 GMT -5
Huangnihe Huangnihe Nature Reserve is northeast of Mount Changbai and researchers have confirmed there are four to six Amur tigers living here. As a direct result of these findings the area will soon be upgraded from Nature Reserve to the more important National Park designation. This will result in increased funding, more protection for the wildlife, conservation planning, research and extra facilities.
At least, that is the theory. Such a small handful of tigers cannot avoid issues like inbreeding and the potential for total eradication through illness or poaching. Unfortunately, it is also obvious these tigers aren't making many friends. More than 60 domestic cattle have been attacked, 20 of these completely eaten, the rest being bitten or chewed. One farm reports a local loss of one cattle beast every two days and this increases during the lean winter months. It seems that two males and one female have made the local farms a routine hunting area, quite a common occurrence when prey is in short supply. It is also a very difficult habitat to break, with translocation being the most successful, and expensive, cure. Other evidence of tigers in the area are pug marks. These have been recorded in varying diameters of 21cm, 18cm and 14.5cm.
Huangnihe Nature Reserve covers 23,476 hectares, with the forest coverage hitting 96.4 percent. It provides sanctuary for several species which totter on the verge of extinction in China. These include sable otters and mergansers, along with various important flora like ginseng, sargent junipers, and Indian azaleas.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:38:20 GMT -5
Changbai Mountain Some reports have been made of Amur tiger sightings in the Mount Changbai Nature Reserve area. The greatest step towards tiger conservation in the reserve was five years ago when the Jilin Provincial Government imposed a hunting ban; this has resulted in a steady increase of large prey animals, particularly wild boar and roe deer. Chinese, Russian and American researchers conducted a survey two ago and from this they formed the opinion that less than 20 Amur tigers a still living in northeast China. Mount Changbai and the nearby Huangnihe Nature Reserve make up their main habitat.
Sadly, on Changbai Mountain much of the damage has already been done and this is a prime example of massive deforestation within China. Between 1870 and 1980 forest cover reduced from 14,185 square kilometres to only 573 square kilometres. On top of loss of habitat and obvious threats like poaching, Mount Changbai is a live volcano which is presently rated "dormant active with a potential eruption danger". The last eruption on this, China's largest volcano, was in 1903. For wildlife an eruption is one of the most serious natural disasters, and the best which can be said about Mount Changbai is it has never had a really disastrous blow out.
Most villages around the park still hold tight to ancient beliefs. Rocks still stand in the centre of many and these symbolize the tiger or mountain god. By worshipping at these shrines people feel safer from tiger attack when out hunting and this is one of the very few cases where an old superstition provides an element of protection for tigers from hunters and hounds. Shooting a tiger is forbidden. The shrines also contain rocks to protect from disasters like accidents when wood cutting. Pine torches and mountain grass incense are lit around them and the heart and liver of the first prey caught in the year are cooked and offered to the tiger god as a mark of respect.
Poachers have no such worries or superstitions. Bears, boars, lynxes, sika deer, sables and other animals and medicinal plants fall under state protection, but all suffer from lack of protection, finance, low incomes for local people and poor education. Though Mount Changbai is still an area of important bio-diversity, it is also in grave danger of being lost in the near future.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:39:25 GMT -5
russia.wcs.org/en-us/About-Us/News-Archive/ID/98/OUR-LOSS.aspx admin_knikolaeva posted on March 09, 2010 02:51 In the course of our ongoing scientific study of tigers in Sikhote-Alin Biosphere Reserve, on November 7, 2009 we captured two 1.5-year old tiger cubs, a brother and a sister, whom we named Anya and Valera. Anya received a GPS collar, the newest in radio-collar technology, which would provide us vast amount of important information about her movements, her daily habits, and her life as a whole as she grew up. At this time, Valera still lives in the same region of the Reserve where he was captured. Apparently, he still follows his mother from time to time, and has not yet dispersed to seek out his own territory. As for Anya… on February 11, 2010 during a regularly scheduled flight to obtain locations for our tigers, we discovered that Anya’s collar had switched to mortality mode. At that time her location was in the very center of the Reserve, on the Kolumbe river. In search of her own home range, Anya had migrated surprisingly far from her mother. The Kolumbe River basin is perhaps the least accessible area of the reserve, with no trails or cabins. For this reason, on February 17th, Siberian Tiger Project specialists took a helicopter out to the place where Anya’s last location was taken, to determine what went wrong. We had all been hoping that Anya simply lost her collar. However, when our specialists reached the ground, they discovered that Anya had been killed and eaten by a bear. It is very disappointing to lose a beautiful, healthy young tigress, who had just begun to live on her own, and could have had many litters of cubs in her lifetime. Our only consolation is that hers at least was a natural death…
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:40:19 GMT -5
sixote-alin.ru/articles/nickl_e.html It is commonly believed that those animals who come into settlements and attack domestic animals are usually young dispersing animals aged 2-3 years, or old or physically disabled. In our study we did not find such a correlation: young tigers (2-4 years old) attacked domestic animals almost as often as adults (5 years and more). In general, of the tigers attacking domestic animals, females were on average older. There is also no difference in number of visits to settlements and attacks on domestic animals between visually healthy tigers and those starving or somehow injured. Only in winters of especially unfavorable conditions, such as lack of food and deep snow (for example 1984-85 and 1985-86), mostly disabled tigers come to settlements and are killed. Among tigers killed by poachers there are two times as many males as females and almost no injured or weak animals. Additionally, their average age was almost two years more than that of tigers killed in conflicts. Of the 21 tigers that died from non human causes, we were able to investigate 8 (5 males and 3 females) in greater detail. The circumstances of their deaths varied: 3 tigers died from wounds received in fights, one each with a bear, another tiger and a wild boar. Two died of diseases and one each died from poisoning and starvation. Cause of death for one animal was unknown. Most cubs (63%) died of starvation after losing their mother, or were killed by adult males.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:44:24 GMT -5
Amur tiger size:
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:46:05 GMT -5
According to the study.... a comparison of the average mature male Amur tiger and mature male black grizzly:
Tiger: head and body length - 195 cm ( 6 feet 5 inches ) - Grizzly: head and body length 196 cm ( 6 feet 5 inches ). Tiger: shoulder height - 93 cm ( 3 feet ) - Grizzly: shoulder height - 115 cm ( 3 feet 9 inches ). Tiger: chest girth - 119 cm ( 3 feet 11 inches ) - Grizzly: 137 cm ( 4 feet 6 inches ). Tiger: weight - 189 kg ( 417 pounds ) - Grizzly: 264 kg ( 582 pounds ).
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:47:37 GMT -5
Amur Tiger Measurements:
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:50:16 GMT -5
A comparison of the Amur tigress and the Amur ( black grizzly ) she-bear - Average Sized Animals:
Tiger: head and body length - 172 cm ( 5 feet 8 inches ) - Grizzly: head and body length - 160 cm ( 5 feet 3 inches ). Tiger: shoulder height - 78 cm ( 2 feet 8 inches ) - Grizzly: shoulder height - 96 cm ( 3 feet 2 inches ). Tiger: weight - 137.5 kg ( 303 pounds ) - Grizzly: weight - 189 kg ( 417 pounds ). *Average mature male Amur tiger and average mature female Amur grizzly = 189 kg ( 417 pounds ) each - the bear is 35.56 cm ( 14 inches ) shorter in head and body length.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:53:03 GMT -5
From "Mammals of the Soviet Union By Vladimir Georgievich Geptner, A. A. Nasimovich, Andreĭ Grigorʹevich" "Early in May, 1951 on the bank of Tatibe River (Iman tributary), a bear was found(body lengh 158 cm, weight 170kg), which had obviously been mauled by tigress" Presuming tigress weigh anywhere between 130-150Kg, It managed to kill 170 Kg Bear. This tells Tigers are capable of killing bears larger than itself. a 140 kg ( 310 pounds ) tigress kills a 170 kg ( 375 pounds ) grizzly in an ambush attack. According to the normal habits of the tigress, the bear was most likely a fat juvenile grizzly - male or female. However, there is also the possibility that the bear was a mature female grizzly. If so, the tigress was larger than average while the she-bear was smaller than average. The tigress would have had at least a foot ( 31 cm ) over the bear in head and body length. Sometimes an adult she-bear is ambushed and killed by a tiger.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 15:59:08 GMT -5
SIZE PARITY. We have numerous ideas about exactly what constitutes size parity. For some, it means weight parity. Example: 500 pound tiger vs 500 pound grizzly. However, in such a face-off, the tiger will measure at least a foot ( 31 cm ) longer in head-and-body length and in bipedal height. Another method is height-and-length parity. Example: A tiger and a grizzly each standing 7 feet tall bipedal in a face-off. The bear has at least a 100 pound weight advantage. Therefore, a true size parity face-off should be a lion or tiger with a slight advantage in length and height vs a grizzly with a slight weight advantage - Two similar-sized animals. Bottom line; Mother Nature seldom arranges a fair fight. According to the study on post #13 and another shown on topic "Black Grizzly" post #11.... a comparison of the average mature male Amur tiger and mature male black grizzly:
Tiger: head and body length - 195 cm ( 6 feet 5 inches ) - Grizzly: head and body length 196 cm ( 6 feet 5 inches ). Tiger: shoulder height - 93 cm ( 3 feet ) - Grizzly: shoulder height - 115 cm ( 3 feet 9 inches ). Tiger: chest girth - 119 cm ( 3 feet 11 inches ) - Grizzly: 137 cm ( 4 feet 6 inches ). Tiger: weight - 189 kg ( 417 pounds ) - Grizzly: 264 kg ( 582 pounds ). The average of each mature male shows us that these are two very similar-sized animals though one designed for agility and quickness and the other for brute strength. Species vs species, I would consider this as a fair size-parity face-off. We cannot reduce them down to equal micro-grams and micro-cm.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 16:03:13 GMT -5
by Blaire Van Valkenburgh - First posted by grraahh - shaggygod.proboards.com/ If bears are not built for speed, then what does the combination of massive limbs, plantigrade hindfeet, cumbersome paws, and a short back provide? Strength and mobility of limb movement are the answers. The stout limbs of bears are capable of producing large forces over a much greater range of motion than those of dogs or even cats. Bears use these capabilities when digging for food or shelter, fishing for salmon, climbing to escape danger, and battling with members of their own species as well as other predators. Imagine a wolf trying to perform a bear hug or climb a tree. Dogs have forfeited these abilities in favor of speed. Cats are more like bears in their range of possible movements, but lack strength. Bears may not be able to outrun danger, but can successfully defend themselves through brute force.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 16:05:58 GMT -5
W.J. Jankowski (in Mazak, 1983) shot a very large (11.6 'over curves' and about 300 kg.) male tiger in Heilongjiang (north-eastern China) in July 1943. Very close to the tiger, Jankowski found the remains (head and paws) of a 'very large' male brown bear which had been killed and eaten by the tiger some days before he was shot (unpublished letter, dated May 8, 1970). This report, however, was never mentioned by researchers and both Jankowski and Mazak, apart from a photograph of the tiger and the letter mentioned, did not provide crucial details on the bear. Too detailed to dismiss and too meagre to accept, one could conclude.
( my conclusions )... This hunter claims that he had discovered the head and paws of a large male brown bear which the big tiger that he shot had killed and eaten some days previous to the discovery of the remains. I can believe that an experienced hunter could possibly identify that the bear had been a male perhaps from the size of the head and feet or perhaps from certain aspects of the head. However, the fact that he jumps to the conclusion that the tiger had killed the bear might partly explain why the scientific community was not inclined to take Jankowski seriously. The two leading causes of adult grizzly deaths are other grizzlies and humans. It is possible that the tiger had himself discovered the partly-eaten carcass of a dead grizzly.
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Post by brobear on Mar 18, 2017 16:06:47 GMT -5
First posted by Ursus arctos middendorffi ( the poster )... A brown bear would be much better able to gain dominant positions and exhaust the other animal over time. This is the general strategy they do when fighting each other (with the end result typically being a tired bear backing down or outright fleeing) as well as often when killing other animals; if unable to cause serious injuries they seem to simply exhaust it through grappling to the point it is no longer able to defend itself, and then slowly kill it. This can be seen in a few clips on youtube, such as "grizzly eats moose alive", "brown bear predation of wild boar (Russia)", and it looks like this was the case in "bear killing bear", a slideshow of a bear killing another one of similar size-note that it moved itself to the back of the other animal where it couldn't effectively fight back. Similar to what you see in this video.
In these cases a bear was able to keep itself relatively free of injuries while exhausting the other animal to the point that it could be safely (albeit ineffectively) killed through their great wrestling/grappling ability. Some autopsies however have revealed more effective kills
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