Amur Tiger vs Ussuri Brown Bear - Old Accounts

[brobear]

www.brothersofthebow.com/html/solospirits.html

Some older tigers would also stalk and kill brown bears, which were easier to catch than elk. Following tigers with radio locators, Bart could read these stories in the snow. The tigers usually just walked the bears down from behind. The big cats had killer instincts and usually about a hundred pound weight advantage on the bears. They would go straight for the neck and sever the spine at the base of the skull. Every once in a while the trampled snow would tell of a furious fight, which always ended with a dead bear. During the study, the team determined that vehicle injuries and poachers caused most tiger mortality. Bart said that if the tigers were going to survive, humans were going to have to want them to and find ways to share the same ecosystems. I could tell that Bart was proud of the team’s work as they made progress in habitat planning, forest usage, establishing travel corridors, and public relations. Insurance policies were provided to farmers who suffered livestock losses. He said, “The science is great, but ultimately we need the support of the people who live and work along side these great cats if we are going to succeed.”

[brobear]

Tiger, as an object of feeding bears. 12 known cases of brown bears kill tigers (Sysoev, 1950; Sysoev, 1960; Abramov, 1962; Rakow, 1970; Gorokhov, 1973; Kostoglod, 1981). All the tigers were eaten by bears. In such battles more likely weakened by the loss, including injured and old animals, so the brown bear activity contributes to bridging the tiger population of potentially dangerous animals to humans (Kostoglod, 1981).

It is clear that brown bears reap greater benefit from the presence of tigers because tigers killed animals - a source of protein food for bears. Therefore, not surprisingly, bears commonly use this source, even if it requires a direct clash with the Tigers., Tigers, it seems unable to prevent adult male brown bears away from their food.

Dale Miquelle.

and.... Despite the fact that his diet is dominated by food of plant origin, brown bear is the largest ground-based predator before the Far East. This beast is capable to obtain practically all forms of the mammals: from the mouse-like rodents to the tiger myshevidnyh.

In the far Of east are known the cases of the selection of victims by brown bear in Amur tiger and leopard. In of the Of sikhote-Alin preserve before 35% of cases of the victim of tiger they were obtained by the brown bear as a result of their selection from owners.In this case the tigers departed based on their victim entirely, or alternately divided them with the bear.

([Seryodkin] and other, 2005). (Seryodkin et al, 2005).

At & around 35%. If they stood their ground there would be higher predation events. No different from cougars, wolves, or other apex predators. It's the same dynamic. Ever see the GSB documentary, in it - the GSB is driving off three Saber Tooth Cats from their carcass kill. If they contest it they risk being killed. Bears are not prolific nor great hunters. The predation argument is muted. This is what the bear does. The bear is the ultimate scavenger.

[brobear]

АМБА

The professional fisherman hunter wrote Thursday, 03 April 2008

Summer monsoon chases from the boundless spaces of Pacific Ocean heavy smoke-colored clouds to Sikhote-Alin' mountains. Being caught for the scattered apexes of dark green cedars, they slow down their run and spill by torrential rains.

Under the impending cliff, which overgrew by ferns and green mosses, where do not fly in heavy rain drops, lies tiger. During the hot day Of [amba] with the pleasure it would expiate in the quiet molded edge it was rolled, but in the cold rainy weather he felt aversion to the water. Licking by rough language moist silky fur, [Amba] becomes accustomed to the smell of damp air. On the rocky steep slope there are many sediments - the stony protrusions above abyss itself. To them sometimes come running [izyubry], escaping from the predators.

[Amba] recently arrived in the natural boundary Of [katena], and its four-footed inhabitants yet did not know about the appearance "of ruler of jungle". It did not eat the fourth day, and rain all did not cease. Soon the light footfall of hooves and rustling bushes reached to its rumor. Thus could run only frightened [izyubr], but why in the side did rustle bushes? [Muchimyy] by curiosity, [Amba] left from under the shed and was directed to that place, where, on its assumption, some beast ran. The thin sense of smell of predator grasped the fresh smell of the hooves of [izyubra]. But to them another smell, which always disturbed the equilibrium itself of tiger, was mixed, it smelled of wolves. This they chased [izyubra]. In the caught fire eyes Of [amby] sparkled the greenish little sparks of irritation. Is wide [zevnuv], it noiselessly slid after the run away beasts. For wolves it was not necessary to for long chase [izyubra]. After jumping to the precipitous protrusion of cliff, which was being connected by narrow cross connection with the mountain, bull was wrapped up by head to the only passage and it began to wait its persecutors. The precipice surrounded from its three sides, and only with one to it on area could penetrate enemies. It low- lowered its horns, which threateningly gleam by eight sharp end- peaks. But the most terrible weapon for the wolves were the front hooves of [izyubra], which smelled to death.

Soon two wolves arrived in time to the sediment. Seeing that they were late, predators settle near the cliff, licking at the sight bull, so close one and inaccessible for them. She-wolf it was it was thrust to [izyubru], but here it bounced, after clanking by teeth. Sharp hoof nearly crushed head by it. Hungry wolves it was not desirable to leave deer, and they calmed down themselves under the bushes in it in sight. Gray robbers repeatedly for a long time precipitated by [izyubrey] on the sediments, leading them to the exhaustion. Not to leave from the brier teeth and to this, if not [Amba], by yellow shadow flickered between the trunks of trees.

The Tigris from a distance saw [izyubra] confronting on the rock. It is leisurely as experimental hunter, it examined approaches to the sediment. Directly cannot be gone it was: place opened, and deer will see it. Falling down to the earth, [Amba] began to go around by circle sediment, being hidden behind the crest of [uvala]. The soft cushions of its wide paws with the pulled claws, coming into contact with wet leaves and grass, were produced no sound. It was stolen so noiselessly, that even itself did not hear the light rustle of its steps. The branches of bushes, catching for the sides, slid along the silky fur. The Tigris slowly swam among the brushwood as month among the clouds.

It remained not far to the sediment, when [Amba] noted the wolves lain on the earth, whose attention was concentrated on [izyubre], [pereminavshemsya] from the foot to the foot. Deer is tastier than the thin sinewy wolf, but tiger without the fluctuation decided to grip the she-wolf, which lay closer to it. First whether addressed in it the [predvechnaya] hostility of cat and dog, then whether hungry impatience pushed [Ambu] to this. After being aimed at the she-wolf, tiger even more carefully it crept up to it, passing from one cover to another, but when to the victim it remained not more than twenty meters, it fell down by several instants to the earth, it selected rear paws, after pressing muscles to the trembling in all tele-, and it jumped. Ten meters was carried its body in air before it touched the earth. Wolves rushed in all directions, but it was late. On the second leap the heavy paws Of [amby] descended to the wolf back, and did not have time she-wolf to snap, as its vertebrae they crunched and they were radiated in the powerful [tigrinykh] jaws. After using the flight of its enemies, [izyubr] jumped from the sediment and headlong it rushed into the rescue brushwood.


[Amba] bore in the teeth she-wolf so easily as cat mouse. It was not desirable to reap supper in the rain. After returning to its dry lair, it without hurrying it ate the forward section of the she-wolf, it licked paws and dozed off. Its alarming cry of jay woke. A sunny day was occupied. [Amba] went down to the key, got drunk transparent cold water.


After breakfasting by the remainders of she-wolf, it was pulled down under the cliff, and, when the sun began to be tended to the horizon, it left on its hunting possessions. The slope, where went [Amba], was covered with the mixed forest. On way fell the old [duplistye] lindens, [belokorye] fir trees. By places trees were wound by lianas. High featherlike ferns hid it with the head. The forest clearings it is dense of verdure by prickly aralia and by wild pepper, even tiger it was difficult to pass through these brushwood, and it went around them. Forest was proclaimed by bird voices. Especially sharply were separated the cries of [zhelny] and thrushes. It smelled of the rotting through [listvoy]. In air large [issinya]- black butterflies, rushed. Along the wrinkled stem of poplar, similar to living liana, rose upward the runner, whose blackbody decorated well dressed brilliant yellow pattern. And although tiger fed aversion to the snakes and never them it touched, runner hurried to be taken away to the unattainable height.

The inhabitants of forest were revived with the offensive of twilights. The flying squirrels flew over from the tree to the tree, Indian martens left to the hunting. Hedgehog rustled in dry leaves. [Amba] passed several kilometers, but nowhere it met [izyubra] or block, to meat of which fed special predilection. Dawn found it on the shore mountain river. From it quenched thirst and, after being extended on the soft green to moss, it overslept entire day in the shadow of old fir trees. In the evening it again left for the hunting.


Scolding by oakwood, it only was it did not grip young Himalayan bear. [Pestun] quickly jumped to the tree and, after being arranged in the bifurcation of high branches, it began to control the tiger, that were lain down under the tree. To sit among the branches was rigid and it is inconvenient. Bear bit off several branches and accumulated them in the bifurcation of branches.

Came out a certain similarity of the flooring, on which was placed the bear, as in the nest. Now to tiger not to wait for it on the earth. After watching bear until the morning, [Amba] wandered along the forest in search of Kabanov.


Soon it left to the trodden [izyubrinuyu] path, which led it to the solonetz lake. On the viscous earth there were here many fresh tracks of [izyubrey]. It smelled of deer. The Tigris attentively was viewed along the sides. After selecting the dry protuberance, which densely overgrew [veynikom], [Amba] lay down for a while in the expectation of [izyubrey]. The branch cracked in midnight: some beast went to the solonetz lake. The thin scent of tiger grasped the smell of [izyubra] earlier than sharp-sighted eyes they examined its obscure silhouette.

[Izyubr] approached the key carefully: it stopped through several steps, moved by large ears, for long it became accustomed to the smell of air. But, besides the smell of the saltish earth, its black nostrils grasped nothing suspicious. Finally [izyubr] approached the solonetz lake and began to greedily eat up the earth.


This only and waited [Amba]. In two leaps it appeared on the back of deer, in several grasps crushed to it vertebrae and broke neck. Deer fell by corpse. [Amba] ate till full fresh slaughtered meat and lay on the grass not far off from its victim. But to use by satisfied bliss with it was brought not long.


Thus far it indulged itself on the cool earth, enormous brown bear shaved on its track. Wide paws under the [polutonnoy] black of flourishes sank in the mossy pillow. Ten-centimeter claws ominous tapped against the roots of trees and the stones, which lie on the path. Bear was hungry. He knew that the [tigrinye] tracks will lead it to the substantial dinner, and it was not mistaken. The sharp smell of fresh meat forced it to stop and to become accustomed to the smell - besides [izyubryatiny], it smelled of tiger.

On its appearance "owner of taiga" it notified by the deaf terrible roar, from which began to tremble leaves. The fur on its withers risen by [dybom] increased even without that the high 1.5-meter growth of bear, which stands on four paws. It required its portion and in the case of failure it was finished with the battle. You be tiger hungry, it, can, and would be accepted audacious call, but the overloaded stomach did not have to the fight. Having blindy grumbled, [Amba] yielded to bear its output and left into the knolls.


Its hunting places Of [amba] it went around for several days. Sometimes its day passages exceeded tens of kilometers. In the course of the month it caught two [izyubrey] and one large block, but completely eating its output he did not succeed in. The bear walked on its tracks. Feeling in the connecting rod of stronger enemy, [Amba] was instinctively inferior to it, but malice increasingly more filled [tigrinoe] heart.


Autumn came. Brown acorns began to crumble from the oaks, the black- dark-blue clusters of berries stood in beauty on the rods of grapes. The calmness of forest began to be disrupted by the shots of hunters. Among the tracks of inhabitants it is rolled they appeared new - tracks of man. To [ambu] did not frighten these tracks, but some vague anxiety, which fought with the curiosity, mastered it. Once at night it for long went on the track of man. After approaching the key, [Amba] saw tiny cottage. The sparks flew from the iron pipe and it smelled of smoke as in that year, when forest burnt. And although tiger did not fear fire, this tiny cottage, proximity with the man was not pleased to it, and it left away.

Now to obtain food it began more difficultly. The fallen and frozen sheet rustled even under the velvety paws Of [amby]. Kabanov and by [izyubrey] disturbed hunters their dogs. The Tigris frequently walked hungry.

Somehow, going on the crest of knoll, [Amba] from a distance saw the wandering Himalayan bear, that belonged to that species of the [poludrevesnykh] bears, which the tiger repeatedly acquired to itself to the dinner. Without suspecting about the danger, Himalayan bear approached [k] it will lie after the [valezhinoy] to tiger. It selected in motion fallen acorns and thus it was absorbed in by this occupation, that it approached entirely close to its enemy. Having blindy bellowed, [Amba] into one huge leap jumped on the bear back and neglected into it canine teeth and claws. The not expected attack bear from the fear and pain roared, it hit under the slope. From the steep slope of mountain the beasts head over heels rolled down into the key. For bear it was here possible to be pulled out from the [tigrinykh] embraces, and it broke into a run into the mountain, but it was soon they will overtake by tiger it is biased from the feet. Beasts again rolled down into the key. This time the canine teeth of tiger were stuck into the neck of bear. Considerably was worn [Amba]. Without turning attention to its wounds, it started the fatty bear meat. Two days returned tiger to its output, and, when remained from the bear head, the paw yes the large bones, which even in the powerful jaws of tiger were not cleft, [Amba] left box wrench. It several days were not desirable to eat after fatty food, but it many saws.

The first snow soon fell out. With the pleasure after going for a drive on it, as if the playing kitten, tiger it lie downed under the old yew-tree, where there was no snow. Forest now far was examined. Its some inhabitants of [otkochevali] into the southern countries, others - fell into the hibernation. The number of crows, that were being flown together to the tiger, increased, as soon as it acquired large beast. Still greater it became hunters. Their shots frequently disrupted the sleep Of [amby], forcing it to prick up ears.


In the middle of winter deep snow fell out. By places snowdrifts exceeded the growth of tiger, and to it difficult it was to make long passages. On snow sleep it could not and therefore Kabanov used secrets. But even in the soft wild boar dens, where usually he slept in the daytime, when meager to the heat- winter sun illuminated forest, tiger fairly froze and with the offensive of twilights left to wander. It loved to walk along the bear tracks and the wild boar paths, and if the track of hunter met, then it went also on it. To walk on the strange tracks was more easily, yes even output fell more frequently.
Here and now [Amba] went by wild boar path. As if laid on the compass, it was pulled to the West. Soon path disappeared, after being decomposed into several separate tracks. After passing on one of them, [Amba] sniffed the bush of spindle tree. Its branches were recently broken off, but they were not dragged along on snow. Block to the nest, which could be somewhere hereabout, apparently, took away them. The Tigris went very carefully, every moment becoming accustomed to the smell and listening.


Kabanov can raise one careless step, and to overtake the running pigs will be difficult even tiger. Vegetation does not hold in control their swift run. Block as by wedge separates by its body thick brushwood. Covered with thick rigid bristle, it easily slides, without being caught for the branches. However, to overcome the thick network of the branches of bushes to tiger will be more difficultly: its body is more vulnerable, and soft paws can be wounded sharp as awl, and strong as the bone, by fir twigs. This is why [Amba] usually steals up to the block as nearer as possible and in several gigantic leaps reach it, but if it is missed, which is very rarely, then it does not pursue.

By the small [semenyashchimi] steps Of [amba] it rapidly went towards to [gaynu], where pig was stale, then it fell down to the front paws and pushed its body forward. In one leap it reached [gayna] and descended to the wild boar back trembled from the fright. Terrible cry proclaimed the asleep forest. In the horror the suckling-pigs rushed to the different sides, and again icy silence mastered forest thickets.

Now in the tiger was substantial supper and warm den. In the morning only the light above The [amboy] flew black crow. It made only one circle, but from its sharp-sighted eyes slipped off neither pig nor tiger nor bloody spot on snow. As! As! - it shouted, and not are past ten minutes, but already above The [amboy] turned the flock of its friends. They settle on the tops of dry fir trees and they began morning roll-call.
After being stretched and after shaking off from itself [prilipshie] [khvoinki], [Amba] approached the cedar, it arose to the rear paws and neglected its bright claws into the reddish crust, as if desiring to be convinced of its strength. Then it approached its output and approached the breakfast. Weak breeze reported to it the smell of bear. Rustle soon was heard, and the black humpbacked figure of connecting rod flickered in the openings between the trees. Embittered by bear importunity, [Amba] blindy began to roar and bristled up. But bear continued to slowly approach. Then tiger rushed to it towards with the threatening roar. He did not want to this time be inferior its output. But connecting rod was very hungry. Shaggy black fur, being lowered from its hollow sides, on the withers stood by [dybom]. Its [Tigrinyy] roar did not frighten, but it irritated.

The rumble, which resembles the distant crash of thunderstorm, rushed from the depth of powerful breast. After treading at one place, connecting rod began to go around tiger, gradually converging with it. Desiring to frighten away [Ambu], bear rose to the rear paws. Now its increase exceeded two meters. Claws distended themselves as the black hooked fingers of the hands of giant. For the deference it raked up air by them, in this case the claws ominous clicked one about another. But tiger did not depart. After selecting convenient moment, it rushed to the back to connecting rod and stuck its [kinzhaloobraznye] canine teeth into the bear withers. Bear began to moan and was brought down sideways. After carrying wide paw, it dragged from itself and pressed in the iron embraces of tiger, after being engaged in the striped side by yellow canine teeth.


Being repulsed with all paws, tiger did not unclench jaws. Tearing up strong muscles of bear neck, it reached the vertebrae… By motley ball rolled themselves beasts on the earth, breaking young saplings and proclaiming forest by loud roar. Under the impacts of long claws the fur from both flew by shreds. Bloody spots increasingly more widely and more widely spread on that trampled down of snow. Three times bear pressed under itself tiger, but each time predator slipped from its fatal embraces and jumped to it to the back, attempting to break to bear neck.


Deer and blocks in such cases rushed into the flight and dragged on themselves terrible rider until they fell in a dead faint. Yes was such bear. Feeling, that it saddled the tiger, it was brought down it sideways and dragged from itself [Ambu] by its strong paws. At first struggles all chances to the victory were on the side of tiger. It exceeded bear by the rapidity of impacts, by adroitness and initiative of attack. Connecting rod, it seemed, only protects. But soon [Ambu] began to leave forces. Without having a possibility to kill connecting rod with lightning speed, it increasingly more frequently and more frequently fell into its embraces, from which cracked the edges. The forces of bear were not exhausted. Its roar passed into the moan soiling the beautiful skin of tiger by the foam and the blood, it tore up by its claws and by canine teeth, aiming to be engaged in the throat. Soon [Amba] understood that to it not to overcome bear.

It did not become accustomed by the price of the incredible efforts to reach victory and decided to leave, but the paw of bear, as if the iron belts, tightened its body. In order to tear this fatal grasp, tiger, it stuck into the bear paw canine teeth. Bear bone cracked, but into the same instant the canine teeth of connecting rod deeply entered into the unprotected neck of tiger. [Amba] began to choke. It tore up by sharp claws the body of bear, pulled out to it one eye and tore ear, but it could not be freed…


Bear killed [Ambu] by the same method, by which the tiger killed deer. Wounds on the bear rapidly heal. Connecting rod in the course of the month did not leave wild boar lair. After eating the remainders of pig, it started the tiger, whose meat was so tasty and fatty as in block. He slept in the wild boar den and, when the reserves of food ended, it left to the knolls turning-blue at the horizon.

[brobear]

It is the tiger that has more power in terms of body movement. In physics, we define power as the product of force and time divided by the time interval which it occurs, i.e., W = Fd, and P = W/(t_fin. - t_int.), therefore P = Fd/(t_fin. - t_int.), which simplies to P = Fv (this is holds true because velocity is just distance divided by time), where F is force, d is distance, t is time, W is work, and v is velocity. Consider a tiger and brown bear of the same mass. If it was the case that the brown bear was more powerful, than it would have to be faster than the tiger, which most all evidence disagrees with; the tiger, being a more streamlined animal with a spine of greater flexibility can generate more power when running. The fact that big cats such as the lion and tiger can accelerate faster while running also suggests they can generate more net force while accelerating than would a bear of comparable size.

With that said, Fallenmonk is incorrect on several of his points. Firstly, simply because the brown bear is not as powerful in body movement as the tiger does not imply it is not more powerful in other areas. The forelimbs of brown bears, for example, are more powerful than those of a tiger, a bear being capable of removing several large boulders in an area far faster than a big cat. Also, tigers, like all other extant cat species, have poor endurance; this is well-documented by researchers: the fast-twitch muscle fibers that tigers and other large cats possess amply allows them to be highly explosive but results in rapid lactic acid buildup. Also, smaller lungs further contributes to the problem. I'd like to see evidence or a source that the ungulates that tigers prey on have greater endurance than bears--while the bear is in general a different animal than these such ungulates and has flexible forelimbs (more flexible than those of the tiger, which I will explain later) I'd still like to see a source that confirms this statement.

Your statement and reasoning for the "claw length" subject is prodigously off. Claw length, an attribute that aids an animal in how deeply it can sink its claws into another animal, is very important in a face off where both animals use their claws frequently when fighting regardless of whether the tiger can "manuever its paws to a greater extent than the bear. Your statement that the tiger's "paws and forelimbs" are more flexible than those of a bruin's is incorrect regardless.

By Frank321 ~

[brobear]

The Black Grizzly, or locally known Horse Bear, lives in the extreme north west of the Urssuri woodland. Its hair is black and its snout shorter but slimmer in profile, with less pronounced eye bone than other Brown Bear. Its Canines are much larger and the animal is well known for its aggression and danger it poses to man. On rare occasions it has been know to wander further south into the territory of the Amur Brown Bear which is a distinctly different subspecies. There maybe some cross over, with mating but the Amur Brown usually avoids its more aggressive cousin. There have been reports of the Horse bear killing even the Tiger but usually the Tiger occupies territory further south, with its less aggressive cousin and the Asiatic Black Bear. Russia seems to have great variation in subspecies of Brown Bear, probably due to just one subspecies crossing over the land bridge into the new world. This was most likely the Kam peninsula Bears, which have great similarity with the Kodiak and pacific coastal subspecies.
We have a picture of one of our specimen Black Grizzly of about 850lbs. A Tiger would have stood little chance with him really but he was encountered too far north to have come into contact with the few Tigers that remain.
I will mail you the picture which is free of copyright.
Regards Chuck. ( first posted by Big Bonns ).

[brobear]

01 - PREDATION carnivoraforum.com/index/

1a - Predation on bears

Tigers are strictly predatory animals and hunt whatever is available. In the RFE, bears are abundant and therefore hunted on a regular basis. Both black and brown bears are hunted. In some areas and periods, smaller black bears are targeted (modern research). In other areas (Tkachenko, 1997) and periods (Bromlej, 1965, as well as modern research), brown bears are more often hunted. Preferences, it seems, depend on (relative) abundance, availability and other (unknown) factors.

Most bears taken are small and medium-sized animals (Chapter 19). Larger bears are killed less frequently. Adult tigresses have been known to hunt adult female black bears (Sysoev), smallish but adult female brown bears (Kaplanov, 1948) and, occasionally, (immature) brown bears exceeding their own weight (Bromlej, 1965). Adult male tigers hunt adult male black bears (Sysoev, 1960 and Tkachenko, 1997), who, according to KTKC, average 183 kg. in north-eastern China. Some male tigers, as was stated by Kaplanov (1948), Bromlej (1965) and Goodrich (in Seryodkin et al, 2005), hunt adult brown bears on a regular basis, but it seems even these specialists target adult females with cubs only (Chapter 19 and posts 247, 33, 350 and 353).

Adult female brown bears, according to Kucerenko, average 189 kg. (range 120-280 and, according to KTKC, up to 360 kg.), whereas adult male tigers average 175-195 kg. (WCS and Miquelle). Most adult females (brown bears) killed are somewhat smaller than an average adult male tiger (Chapter 19), but some females are similar or near-similar in size. Recent research confirms Bajkov's (1925) statement that tigers are able to hunt brown bears of up to almost their own weight.


1b - Predation on large brown bears

There are reliable reports on large brown bears killed by tigers, but the number is very limited indeed and it also is a fact 'large', apart from one exception (Bromlej, 1965), was never specified. All incidents mentioned below occured before 1970 and it is in this respect interesting to note Russian researchers evaluating records on the size of Siberian tigers noticed a gradual decline in weight in Siberian tigers in the last century. It seems the decline started about a century ago and continued to roundabout 1970 (post 436).

W.J. Jankowski (in Mazak, 1983) shot a very large (11.6 'over curves' and about 300 kg.) male tiger in Heilongjiang (north-eastern China) in July 1943. Very close to the tiger, Jankowski found the remains (head and paws) of a 'very large' male brown bear which had been killed and eaten by the tiger some days before he was shot (unpublished letter, dated May 8, 1970). This report, however, was never mentioned by researchers and both Jankowski and Mazak, apart from a photograph of the tiger and the letter mentioned, did not provide crucial details on the bear. Too detailed to dismiss and too meagre to accept, one could conclude.

K.G. Abramov (unpublished notes, provided to Mazak by Abramov's widow in 1966) also reported on a male tiger who had killed an 'old, large male Schatun' in the 1958-1959 winter (in the Central Sichote-Alin Mountains). This case wasn't dismissed, but researchers apparently concluded the sex of the brown bear was unclear.

Bromlej (in Heptner and Sludskij, 1980, page 149), in May 1951, found the remains of a 158 cm. (way of measuring unknown) and 170 kg. (approximately) brown bear killed by a tigress near the Tatibe River. The tigress remained 3-4 days near the kill and consumed the fattiest parts. Although Bromlej didn't state anything on the age and sex of the bear, research (in two threads) showed he was misquoted by both Mazak (1983) and Heptner and Sludskij (1980). One American female researcher, in her mail to Bonns, even stated she knew of a " ... good-sized male killed in or near its den in 1951 ... ". It is not known in which circumstances the bear was killed and Bromlej didn't make statements regarding the struggle. The incident, however, is well authenticated and shows a tigress is able to kill a larger bear.

Rakov also referred to a 'large brown bear' killed by a tiger in December 1959 near the Svetlaya River. The tiger remained 5-10 days near the kill. The gender wasn't established. Kaplanov (1948) also mentioned an incident of predation on a 'large' brown bear. Again, details were not provided.

The level of predation differs. In some areas, predation on bears is limited, whereas the situation in other areas is very different. It also has to be noted predation has a seasonal character. Most studies indicate bears (black and brown together) constitute between 1-1,5% (recent research) and 8,4% (V.K. Abramov, 1962) of the total food-intake of tigers. In some areas, however, the percentage (up to 37%) is much higher (Tkachenko, 1997).


Adult male tigers hunt bears more often than adult females (Chapter 19). Although only three cases of predation have been described, it seems unlikely all of the bears killed in fights near kill sites (post 55) were killed by adult male tigers. It also seems unlikely tigresses, as was suggested by some researchers, only very rarely hunt bears. The skill of the tigress described by Kaplanov (1948), suggests some tigresses could be experienced regarding bears.


1c - Predation on tigers

1c - Predation on tigers

Bears do not habitually hunt tigers, but it is known adult male brown bears consume tigers killed in disputes. It seems some adult male brown bears, in some circumstances, deliberately target tigers (posts 520 and 536). Kostoglod mentioned a case in which a bear followed a tiger for a long distance (Chapter 19). The tiger escaped, but another one was attacked, killed and eaten. Although tigresses sometimes perish in fights with male brown bears, the number is incidents is too limited to get to general statements.

In 2010, two tigresses, a subadult (19 months of age) and an 8-year old ('Vera') with two (about 18 months old) cubs, were killed by brown bears (post 520). Apart from the fact they were killed by brown bears, not much was known. The young tigress, behaviourwise, showed signs of disease and it is also known at least 4 other tigers (two subadult males, one adult female and one adult male) displayed abnormal behaviour before their death (Miquelle). There is no additional information on the 8-year old tigress mentioned above.

In the last 50 years, according to Alexious3, at least two adult male tigers have been killed by brown bears (post 568). One perished in 1960 and it could be this is the case used by Sysoev for his fictional story on 'Amba'. Another tiger died after a fight in 1972. Rukovsky mentioned another incident (post 70). Two of the three male tigers killed, at roundabout four years of age, were young adults. The third one was described as a medium-sized animal (age unknown).

There are other accounts of male tigers killed by brown bears (Sysoev mentioned two cases and Bonns mentioned an incident near or in a river in 1943), but these, as far as is known, have not been acknowledged by researchers. The number of tigers killed in fights between 1943-1996 (referring to the table posted earlier) indicate there could be more cases (posts 17 and 55). Apart from one, all fights referred to in the table (post 55) were corroborated by Russian researchers, but in most incidents details were missing. It is, however, known brown bears were involved in most incidents.

The information available suggests most tigers killed were killed in winter. As brown bears hibernate in winter, it has to be assumed non-hibernating bears ('Shatuns') were involved in most of these. Schatuns are desperate animals and most seem to perish. This means many would be inclined to attack any animal, tigers and other (hibernating) bears included (post 584).

Although at least one was a smallish female who killed and ate a much larger hibernating male brown bear, most Schatuns seem to be males. As most of the 'large brown bears' killed by tigers mentioned above were killed in winter, it has to be assumed some, if not all, of these were Schatuns. Same for tigers killed in winter.

1d - Conclusions

Tigers in the RFE habitually hunt brown bears for food. Not the other way round. Most bears killed are small to medium-sized animals. Even adult male tigers specialising on brown bears seldom target bears of their own size. Adult females, however, have been killed more than once and there is no doubt (Bromlej, 1965) a tiger is able to kill a larger brown bear.

There are reliable reports on large brown bears killed by tigers. But 'large', apart form the bear killed in the 1951 incident, was never substantiated and most bears were killed in winter, indicating Schatuns were involved in most. Schatuns are desperate animals, willing to attack anything they encounter. When Schatuns attack adult male tigers, fights erupt and these can go either way. It seems Schatuns were involved in most of the few incidents with a tragic outcome.

Some Russian researchers think some adult male brown bears sometimes deliberately target and attack tigresses with cubs in favourable circumstances (snowy conditions). Although it is known tigresses sometimes perish in encounters with male brown bears, the number is too limited to get to conclusions.

[brobear]

Continued....
02 - THE SIZE OF LARGE BEARS KILLED BY TIGERS

Tigers, as was stated before (Bromlej, 1965), are capable of killing a larger bear. The bear killed near the Tatibe River, at 158 cm. and approximately 170 kg., could have been a large subadult animal (post 448). Bromlej didn't state anything on the tigress. It is, however, known adult tigresses average between 115-120 kg. (post 83). As males, averaging between 175-195 kg. (WCS - Miquelle), are significantly larger, it is likely an experienced male tiger is capable of tackling bears well in excess of his own weight as well. It has to be stated, however, there is, apart from the incident mentioned by Mazak, no evidence.

There are, however, reliable reports on 'large brown bears' killed by tigers and most of these involved non-hibernating brown bears (Schatuns). As these will attack any animal, it could be some of the tigers attacked had no option but to engage the bear. As fights between animals of similar or near-similar size can go either way, some 'Schatuns', it is assumed, were killed. Encounters of this nature, however, can't be regarded as deliberate predatory attacks on healthy adult male brown bears.

It seems male tigers avoid even hibernating large brown bears most of the time. But most of the time isn't equal to always (Bromlej, 1965 and Kaplanov, 1948) and this observation can't be used to state male brown bears win mosts fights with tigers. If both are of similar size, it apparently depends (posts 55, 462, 463, 465, 470, 495 and 566).

03 - INTERACTIONS BETWEEN ADULT MALES

Adult male brown bears, according to Russian researchers, often follow tigers in order to feed on their kill. The outcome of the interactions isn't easy to describe. In some cases, one of the two is chased. In others, bears wait for their turn. Sometimes (in all four cases adult tigresses were involved) both feed simultanously. Every now and then, tigers, including adult males (one case was described in Chapter 19), are displaced by bears. Disputes erupt at times. The information available suggests brown bears are more agressive, whereas tigers (referring to all brown bears involved and not to male brown bears in particular) win most fights. The margins, however, seem to be small (posts 55, 463). Details on the animals involved in these fights (sex, age and size) often are absent.

Adult male brown bears and adult male tigers seem to avoid each other. In difficult circumstances (a lack of food), they sometimes clash near kill-sites. The observations made in over half a century suggest an all-out fight between a full-grown male tiger and a full-grown male brown bear has to be regarded as a singular event. The list of victims is very limited.

Three fights were witnessed (Sysoev) or pieced together (Rukovsky). In two incidents, the tigers were young adults (3-4 years of age), whereas the brown bears (all three incidents) were described as 'large' or 'very large' animals. In all fights, the tigers were killed after a prolonged struggle. The margins, it seems, were small.

The number of 'large' brown bears killed by tigers (referring to the five incidents mentioned above) is very limited as well. Two of the four bears killed were described as oldish animals. The information available suggests, as Gorokhov stated, inexperienced, young (tigers) or old (bears) animals seem to be more vulnarable than mature, healthy animals.

04 - CONTRADICTORY INFORMATION (researchers)

The lack of clarity on the outcome of disputes near kill-sites is a result of a lack of specific information on one hand and contradictory statements of researchers on the other hand.

Miquelle, for instance, stated adult tigers are not always able to defend their kill against male brown bears (1) and brown bears have been known to kill tigers (2), but he also stated brown bears do not win all encounters, as some tigers had learned to hunt them (3). Which is not easy to understand, as there is a difference between open encounters and ambushes. His statements differ from Kostoglod´s, who (posts 164, 182) stated brown bears are capable to kill tigers (4). Rukovsky, on the other hand, stated an average tiger is always stronger than an average bear (5) and tigers won most of the fights he knew of (6). He, however, also mentioned an incident in which a young adult male tiger (post 70), after a prolonged battle, was killed by a very large brown bear (7).

The confusion not only is a result of a lack of specific information and contradictions. It also is likely the shape and the outcome of an encounter depends on the gender, age and size of both animals involved (8). In many cases, this information is lacking.

Finally, it has to be stated the observations of modern research regarding the relation between tigers and bears do not confirm those of Kaplanov and Bromlej. Kaplanov, from the tracks in the snow, saw brown bears, one of these a very large animal, avoid tiger tracks (9), whereas modern researchers state brown bears often deliberatey follow the tracks of tigers (10). Bromlej stated tigers hunted even large hibernating brown bears (11), of which the largest were able to escape, but his observations were not confirmed by modern research (12).



05 - OTHER FACTORS

Although the evidence for such a statement is lacking, it seems 'large brown bears' are not entirely out of the predatory reach of adult male tigers. As it is difficult to get to clear statements regarding interactions between male tigers and male brown bears, other factors are discussed below.

5a - The effect of hibernation.

Although an average adult male brown bear (Ursus arctos lasiotus) in the RFE, at 264 kg. (not known if spring, autumn or year-round weight), outweighs an average adult male tiger (195 kg.), a signifiant minority of adult male brown bears is weightwise well within reach of an average male tiger (Kucerenko, 2003). Furthermore, it has to be noted some male tigers exceed 250 kg. at times (Bajkov, 1925; Morden, 1930 and Mazak, 1983).

Adult male brown bears are subject to significant seasonal variations in weight. In northern Europe, where they averaged 273 kg. in late fall, they lost 72 kg. (or 26% of their autumn weight) during hibernation (post 406). Assuming brown bears in northern Europa compare to Ursus arctos lasiotus, one could state an average male brown bear in Russia could be vulnarable in late winter and early spring, when they would have lost about a quarter (roundabout 145 pounds) of their autumn weight. It is, however, very interesting to note brown bears (in general) are more often targeted in late fall and early winter (at their peak, that is) than in spring.

5b - Size

Male brown bears are sexually mature at about 5 years of age, but continue to grow until they are about 12 years of age and seem to put on weight even after that (posts 29, 283, 288, 315, 364, 370, 391, 394, 395, 408). The statistics available (on the growth rate of young and adolescent animals and the differences in size between sexually mature and full-grown males from North-America), indicate young animals can easily double their weight in a period of two years (Warsaw, jan. 16, 2010, 21:10:10). They also indicate there is a significant difference in skull size and weight between adult and full-grown male brown bears (posts 394, 408, 409, 431).

Adult males of Ursus arctos lasiotus (Kucerenko, 2003) average 264 kg. (range 260-321) in weight and 196 cm. in head and body length. It is assumed the average for weight refers to a year-round average. It also is assumed the animals were measured 'over curves'. Adult males (Baryshnikov, 2007) average 407,8 mm. (n=19) in greatest skull length (range 373,8-447,0 mm.).

Adult male tigers (WCS, first decade of this century) average 175-185 kg. (range 125-205 kg.), but it has to be added at least three of the tigers used for the table, judging from the other measurements provided, seemed immature. It also has to be stated the table did not include the heaviest tiger actually weighed (474 pounds), while another large animal (T-16) also wasn't measured and weighed. Furthermore, it has to be stated most, if not all, adult males captured and measured after the table was published were close to (or slightly over) 200 kg., meaning Miquelle's assessment (430 pounds or 195 kg.) could well prove to be right in the end. On it other hand, it has to be added tigers classified as 'problem tigers' usually are smaller. If all weights were to be included (reliable historical weights and new data not incorporated in the table mentioned above) for a realistic assessment, one could state the great majority of healthy, mature (at least 5 years of age) tigers average between 150-225 kg. (range 125-255).

Although Jankowski's tiger (which was 11.6 'over curves' and estimated at about 300 kg.) was not included, it is, judging from the size of this tiger and some captive tigers (like the 319 cm. tiger measured by Mazak and the 320 cm. tiger measured by Dr. Gewalt), to be expected animals exceeding the upper ranges mentioned will be encountered every now and then.

Adult male tigers average between 360-370 mm. (range 341-383) in greatest skull length. Both Bajkov and Kitchener referred to a skull close to 16 inches (406 mm.) in total length (more information on size in posts 217, 283, 300, 333, 363, 409).

5c - Hypothetical remarks regarding the impact of the factors mentioned

Most trainers I interviewed (posts 462, 463, 465 and 470) stated a fight between two healthy animals of similar size and age (referring to bears, tigers and lions) would be a toss-up. If one has a significant advantage, like weight, it is expected to count most of the time if it is assumed all other factors are similar or near-similar..

In the RFE, adult male brown bears are both shorter (head and body length in a straight line) and heavier than adult male tigers, meaning they have a more solid structure. In a prolonged struggle and all other factors considered equal, it is to be expected this advantage would count in the end. But the other factors are not similar.

Tigers seem to be as strong (post 70) and, for the ability to struggle on their hindlegs, almost compare to brown bears, experts state. They also state tigers are faster, more agile and more agressive in the initial stage of a fight, enabling them to manouvre the bear into a position in which they are able to use their teeth first. Furthermore, a tiger is able to exercise more pressure at the tip of the canines, which are decidly longer and as strong as well. According to Ursus arctos middendorffi, an average male brown bear fighting an average male tiger faces an enemy who, teethwise, compares to a brown bear much (about 50%) heavier than himself (more information in the posts of Ursus arctos middendorffi in the thread 'Morphological comparison of big pantherines and brown bears'). Tigers, therefore, are better biters.

It also is a fact a tiger, at equal or near-equal size, is able to pull (biceps) harder than a brown bear. This means a tiger, confronting the bear in an upright position, is able to hold a bear better than the other way round. Bears, on the other hand, are better pushers (triceps and shoulders) and more prolific hitters.

All this means an average male tiger, in spite of the difference in weight, can be expected to confront a larger average male brown bear on equal or near-equal terms. As his way of fighting is energy-absorbing, tigers need and seek breaks. It is, however, doubtful if a tiger, as Pikunov suggested, would expend himself in this way, as the information available (on fights with other animals) suggest tigers often are involved in prolonged struggles.

Bears able to turn the tables, according to trainers (and Sysoev, for that matter), often are experienced animals who adopt a defensive strategy in the initial stages of the fight. This strategy is facilitated by the ability to absorp significant damage and break the hold of a tiger, which is a feat in itself. All trainers state bears, because of their structure, are very difficult to kill. It takes a lot of time and energy and it seems bears know how to use breaks to force a decision. Meaning bears able to win a fight with a tiger use their qualities in a clever way. But they have to turn the tables in many fights, it seems. An experienced tiger able to evaluate the development of a fight would pull out. Young adult animals, however, often overestimate their chances and sometimes pay.

These notions were borne out by observations in captivity and observations of Sysoev (directly) and Rukovsky (indirectly). Sysoev (who witnessed two fights between young adult male tigers and male brown bears) and Rukovsky (who was able to piece the event together) both stated the youngish (about 4 years of age) male tigers, after a prolonged battle, were killed by significantly larger bears. In both incidents, the tigers, it seems, refused to pull out of the fight.
5d - Experts

Kretzchmar based his opinion on bears and tigers on Sludskij's book 'Lord of the jungle', interviews with hunters and his own experiences. He, like Bajkov, Sysoev and Sludskij, thought tigers would be able to cope with bears up to his own weight (roundabout 200 kg.) more often than not. After the limit mentioned, the balance would shift (posts 442, 481, 490-493 and 498). Meaning adult male brown bears would be out of range for an average adult male tiger.

But he also stated not one of the two consistently dominated the other in a fysical fight. Finally, he, in his book ('Shaggy God'), stated adult male tigers are not always willing to defend their kill in a dispute with " ... the clumsy giant ... ".

Small advantage for the bear, but not quite clear, one could conclude. If understood correctly, Kretzchmar, stated the difference in weight between both (very large brown bears excluded) wouldn't be decisive in a fight. Other factors would and it could be these do not relate to size, but to fundamental differences between both animals (posts 462, 463, 465, 468, 527).

A bear, as a non-hunter desperate for protein (male brown bears eat more meat than females), would be more willing to engage than a tiger because it (the appropiation of kills) is his livelihood, whereas a tiger can hunt again and isn't prepared to accept risks. Brown bears, for that reason, ultimately would dominate the food competition (posts 516, 561, 566). But every animal has a different character and it could be some tigers react different than others. In an all-out fight, the outcome is unsure. It depends.

[brobear]

Continued....
5e - Trainers (captivity)

In a fight, all other factors equal, character, attitude and experience count. The trainers I interviewed stated tigers, more often than not (and more dependant on individuality), try to avoid confrontations. When they decide to get involved in a fight, tigers don't fight for dominance (lions) or food (bears), but for other reasons. Most, again according to trainers, will fight till a decision is reached. This attitude could explain why many fights end the way they do (post 55).

Tigers, according to all trainers interviewed, are ferocious critters. But so are brown bears. The two researchers interviewed by Bonns (D. Pikunov one of these) regarded brown bears (both sexes) as very dangerous animals. In the RFE, they are much more feared than tigers.

Bears (species related) also are bolder than tigers and tend to overestimate their capabilities in a fight with a tiger. Althought there are no strict rules regarding the outcome of a fight between two animals of similar size and age, tigers, although the margins are small, seem to win most encounters with bears because of the reasons mentioned.

It could be Kretzchmar, regarding the limit he proposed, is right. The list of large bears killed in fights in captivity seems to be as short as the list discussed earlier. Most trainers think Kretzchmar's limit is a bit low, because captive Siberian tigers are larger than their wild relatives. Most adult males average between 480-500 pounds (range 380-700) and all trainers stated they would not be willing to make a bet on the outcome of a fight.

It could be the trainer interviewed by Bonns ('Dan') worded the opinion of many trainers best. He stated a 500-pound male tiger would not be able to defeat a 600-pound male brown bear in a fair scrap. But he also stated an attack from behind would result in a dead bear.

06 - CONCLUSIONS

The information discussed above suggests the outcome of a fight between adult males is unsure when both are of similar size. Tigers are able to ambush larger bears (posts 58, 448, 453), but it is generally accepted male brown bears, who outweigh male tigers by quite a margin, dominate the food competition in normal circumstances.

Although the fights witnessed prove both are able to kill each other, the margins seem to be small. Mature animals (both species) only very seldom, if ever, succumb and the list of victims is very short indeed.

Some last remarks to finish with. Tigers and brown bears have been living in close proximity for a very long time. Although tigers hunt (young and medium-sized) brown bears on a regular basis, the impact on the population is very limited. One would expect this situation also is a result of the relative size of average adult males, meaning male brown bears would not be targeted by male tigers. This relative immunity would enable male brown bears to reproduce at a rate which limits the impact of predation.

The evidence there is (collected in a period of more than half a century) suggests this is indeed the case. Meaning mature and healthy adult male brown bears seem to be out of the predatory reach of adult male tigers. And, as far as is known, the other way round. Animals killed in fights (both species) are few and far between and it seems most, if not all, are inexperienced (tigers), oldish (bears) or incapacitated (malnourished Schatuns) animals.

It could be more is going on than is observed, but this seems to be the general rule. Meaning mature adult male brown bears dominate the food competition most of the time and, as was concluded by Russian researchers a long time ago, seem to have the edge in encounters. But most of the time isn't equal to always and the margins seem to be very small. Too small to engage in all-out fights on a regular basis.

[brobear]

www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict13.html

Grizzly bears - the ultimate carnivore:

Almost all queries received on this topic request answers to the lion versus tiger question. Oddly, few people simply ask which is considered the Ultimate Carnivore.

This honour is held by an animal the tiger does not often have encounter; it is the grizzly bear.

The grizzly bear is a poor predator, taking down a caribou only when the opportunity arises. This, however, shifted his evolution in favour of the job in hand, namely as a digger of hard barren ground for roots, tubers and den building. The grizzly bear subsequently evolved enormous bone and muscle density; roughly ten times our own for a given size. They have developed into huge and enormously powerful animals.

Big cat biology is very different. They have evolved powerful elastic muscles over a low weight, low density bone structure to suit their purpose of chasing down prey.

[brobear]

www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict9.html

Sloth bears:

In India, the rather shaggy sloth bear has been known to steal tiger kills, though it's to be admitted that the Bengal tiger usually comes off the winner in these challenges.

Brown and Asiatic black bears:

The Amur tiger shares the forest with a powerful neighbor: the brown bear. A close relative of the Alaskan grizzly, the brown bear lacks the ferocity of its cousin, but can grow larger, with big males regularly reaching 1500 lb.

A second species of bear, the smaller Asiatic black bear, also lives in the same location. These weigh in at up to 350 lb and often seem small from a distance. In fact, that statement is true of all bears. The small appearance comes from the fact that bears are round-bodied and long-slung. Couple this with short thick legs, in relation to body size, and you have that look of a small compact animal.
But that same bear will tower over a man when he rises onto his hind legs. Incidentally, many people think bears are short-sighted, but this is not correct; experiments have shown bears have keen eyesight along with excellent hearing and smell.

There is a great deal of interaction between the brown bear and the Amur tiger. Tigers and bears are born enemies. Whenever possible a tiger will drive away a bear, or try to kill and eat it. A male tiger will even attack a female brown bear with young. Animal biologists once spotted a big male on a freshly killed brown bear cub. The mother bear and her second cub had escaped by climbing a tree.

The killing of male brown bears is very rare. In such cases the tiger usually takes the bear by surprise during hibernation.

These two opponents are very wary of a fight. A fully grown, male brown bear, weighing up to 1500 lb, presents a formidable foe to even the biggest male Amur tiger. Large brown bears even follow tigers and will take over their kills; especially at the end of winter when there is little food around.
Tiger predation on bears:Tigers generally avoid bears much over 800 lb, but will quite readily predate on sub-600 lb females. This is impressive predation and during fights with the brown bear the tiger gives quite a good account of itself.Occasional confrontations with similar weight animals over a kill usually fizzle out after a bit of noise and threatening display.Huge grizzly bears:However, the 1000 lb plus bear is king here and of a much more ferocious disposition. Two large male tigers were found killed by such animals in the year 2000, which is tragic, if natures way.Tigers will usually avoid such a powerful foe, but eventually these huge animals will run into each other. Often the bear is trying to steal the tiger's kill. The tiger gives a better account of itself in a bear fight than the lion. The bear does not go in for strangulation or nape biting, but uses his paws to rain blows to the head and shoulders. Possibly this removes any advantage of a mane.With no experience of bear fighting, a lion would probably be found wanting against such a foe, yet it appears to have great advantage against creatures which go in for blood letting at the throat (such as the tiger).

[brobear]

shaggygod.proboards.com/board/95/tigers

"...Unfortunately, Ivan Seryodkin and his 4 co-authors were unable to attend the conference, so his presentation on the
Intraspecific relationships between brown bears, Asiatic black bears and the Amur tiger was graciously read by his colleague
Tsutomu Mano. The Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik in the Primorsky region of the Russian Far East is a unique habitat in which
brown bears, Asiatic black bears and Amur tigers co-exist. During this investigation, Ivan and his co-authors visited 427
tiger kills. Of these, 16.7% had been scavenged by brown bears, most of which were red deer. They documented 22 cases in
which tigers killed brown bears, 12 cases in which brown bears killed tigers, and 10 cases where the species fought but there
were no immediate fatalities. Encounters with black bears were unclear, but it was evident that all 3 species used the same
mark and rub trees..."

"The only natural enemy of the Amur tiger is the brown bear. Adult male brown
bears can attack female and young tigers with the intention of eating them. Brown
and Himalayan bears also scavenge on tiger kills and can chase tigers off their kill.
This means that tigers have to kill additional prey."

Intraspecific relationships between brown bears, Asiatic black bears and the
Amur tiger
Seryodkin, I.V.1, J.M. Goodrich2, A.V. Kostyria3, E.N. Smirnov4, D.G. Miquelle2
1 Pacific Geographical Institute, FEB RAS, Vladivostok, Russia, 690041
2 Wildlife Conservation Society, Bronx, NY, 10460, USA
3 Institute of Biology and Soil Science, FEB RAS, Vladivostok, Russia, 690022
4 Sikhote-AlinState Biosphere Zapovednik, Terney, Russia, 692150
In the Russian Far East, the Amur tiger (Panthera tigris altaica), brown bear (Ursus arctos) and Asiatic black bear (U.
thibetanus) all share the same habitat. These three species all prefer deciduous and mixed wood forests. In the Sikhote-Alin
protected area, the relationship between bears and a tiger were studied during extensive telemetry research in the region.
During the non-denning period bears scavenged 16.7% of surveyed tiger kills (n=427). Brown bears scavenged tiger kills
6.7 times more often, than Asiatic black bears. The frequency of autumn scavenging by bears was less than spring (X2 = 8.7,
df= 1, p= 0.003) andsummer (X2 = 10.5, df= 1, p= 0.012). In 44.4% of cases the bears scavenged tiger kills only after the
tiger had abandoned the kill site. In at least 4 cases (11.1 %) bears displaced tigers from a kill, while in 4 cases both tigers
and bears utilized the kill during the same period. Analysis has shown that 2.1% of bears diet is obtained from tiger kills,
1.4% for brown bears and 0.7% from Asiatic black bears. In 44 recorded encounters between tigers and bears, the tiger
initiated contact in 12 cases while the bear initiated contact in 8 cases. Of these encounters, 50% resulted in the death of the
bear, 27.3% resulted in the death of the tiger and in 22.7% of encounters both animals survived and parted ways. Records
of tigers killing Asiatic black bears are unclear. Tigers can prey on denning bears, and the Asiatic black bear have better
protected dens then brown bears. Bears often follow tiger tracks through deep snow for ease of movement, to scavenge tiger
kills and to potentially prey on tigers. Tigers, brown bears and Asiatic black bears all use the same mark and rub trees.

[brobear]

From left to right - Manchurian wapiti - Wild boar - Sika deer - Siberian roe deer - Bear - Other. *Note that far more Asiatic black bears are consumed than grizzly bears. Well over 90% of grizzly bears preyed upon by tigers are juveniles while the other ( less than ) 10% are mature she-bears.
 

[brobear]

Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.

Tiger - Tigers prey on bears in their respective habitat. The diet of some Siberian tigers is 5 to 8 percent Asiatic black bear, though the bears have been observed displacing tigers from their kills.
Bengal tigers kill sun bears, though they will often avoid them, and they ambush or sneak up on a sloth bear. Brown bears are a more formidable challenge for a Siberian tiger, and most of those bears killed are young, orphaned, or bears too old or weak to defend against a tiger.

[brobear]

Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.

Tiger - Tigers prey on bears in their respective habitat. The diet of some Siberian tigers is 5 to 8 percent Asiatic black bear, though the bears have been observed displacing tigers from their kills.
Bengal tigers kill sun bears, though they will often avoid them, and they ambush or sneak up on a sloth bear. Brown bears are a more formidable challenge for a Siberian tiger, and most of those bears killed are young, orphaned, or bears too old or weak to defend against a tiger.

books.google.pl/books?ei=i7KfUtWX...me&q=tiger

According to Tungus, there are three competing groups: man, tigers, and large bears. If the tiger occupies a certain small valley, no bear and no man may come and disturb it. If a man camps in such a place, the tiger kills the horses, approaches the wigwam, frightens the women and children, but rarely kills them. If the man moves to another neighbouring valley, the tiger does not follow him, and leaves his family and horses alone. Neither does the tiger go to the valleys occupied by the large bear. The places belonging to the bear may easily be recognized by man, by the tiger, or by other bears. This animal lives with its mother until it is sometimes one or two years old. When the bear is alone, he has to find out a free place to live. It happens rather often that there are two claimants for the same place - a tiger and a bear. According to their practice, the bear puts his mark on a tree by biting it as high as he can.

According to Tungus, the tiger is not as intelligent as the bear. "... If the first attack succeeds and the bear falls down, the tiger masters his foe and kills him; if not, the bear slowly but surely conquers the tiger and kills him. By this duel, the problem of the desired territory is solved for ever ..." From :"Social organization of the Northern Tungus" by S._M._Shirokogoroff

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._M._Shirokogoroff

[brobear]

Intraspecific relationships between brown bears, Asiatic black bears and the
Amur tiger
Seryodkin, I.V.1, J.M. Goodrich2, A.V. Kostyria3, E.N. Smirnov4, D.G. Miquelle2
1 Pacific Geographical Institute, FEB RAS, Vladivostok, Russia, 690041
2 Wildlife Conservation Society, Bronx, NY, 10460, USA
3 Institute of Biology and Soil Science, FEB RAS, Vladivostok, Russia, 690022
4 Sikhote-AlinState Biosphere Zapovednik, Terney, Russia, 692150
In the Russian Far East, the Amur tiger (Panthera tigris altaica), brown bear (Ursus arctos) and Asiatic black bear (U.
thibetanus) all share the same habitat. These three species all prefer deciduous and mixed wood forests. In the Sikhote-Alin
protected area, the relationship between bears and a tiger were studied during extensive telemetry research in the region.
During the non-denning period bears scavenged 16.7% of surveyed tiger kills (n=427). Brown bears scavenged tiger kills
6.7 times more often, than Asiatic black bears. The frequency of autumn scavenging by bears was less than spring (X2 = 8.7,
df= 1, p= 0.003) andsummer (X2 = 10.5, df= 1, p= 0.012). In 44.4% of cases the bears scavenged tiger kills only after the
tiger had abandoned the kill site. In at least 4 cases (11.1 %) bears displaced tigers from a kill, while in 4 cases both tigers
and bears utilized the kill during the same period. Analysis has shown that 2.1% of bears diet is obtained from tiger kills,
1.4% for brown bears and 0.7% from Asiatic black bears. In 44 recorded encounters between tigers and bears, the tiger
initiated contact in 12 cases while the bear initiated contact in 8 cases. Of these encounters, 50% resulted in the death of the
bear, 27.3% resulted in the death of the tiger and in 22.7% of encounters both animals survived and parted ways. Records
of tigers killing Asiatic black bears are unclear. Tigers can prey on denning bears, and the Asiatic black bear have better
protected dens then brown bears. Bears often follow tiger tracks through deep snow for ease of movement, to scavenge tiger
kills and to potentially prey on tigers. Tigers, brown bears and Asiatic black bears all use the same mark and rub trees.
shaggygod.proboards.com/board/38/felidae

[brobear]

www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Brown_bear

Interspecific predatory relationships

Brown bears will often use their large size to intimidate wolves from their kills. Though conflict over carcasses is common, the two predators will, on rare occasions, tolerate each other on the same kill. Given the opportunity, both species will prey on each other's cubs.


Reconstruction of a brown bear confronting a wolf pack by Adolph Murie (1944).
Adult bears are generally immune from predatory attacks from anything other than another bear. Some bears emerging from hibernation have been known to seek out tigers in order to steal their kills (Matthiessen and Hornocker 2001). However, in the Russian Far East, brown bears, along with smaller Asiatic black bears, constitute 5 to 8 percent of the diet of Siberian tigers (Mazak 1983). In particular, the brown bear's input is estimated as 1 to 1.5 percent. However, tigers prefer to contest brown bear sows (Seryodkin 2006). For the tiger, even bears of the same size are a force to be reckoned with when confronted head on. There are 12 known incidents when Siberian tigers were killed and eaten by brown bears (Seryodkin et al. 2005; Seryodkin 2006). Brown bear/tiger conflict can eliminate the weakest animals from both populations (Seryodkin et al. 2005; Seryodkin 2006).

Brown bears usually dominate other bear species in areas where they coexist. Due to their smaller size, American black bears are at a competitive disadvantage over brown bears in open, non-forested areas. Although displacement of black bears by brown bears has been documented, actual interspecific killing of black bears by brown bears has only occasionally been reported. The black bear's habit of living in heavily forested areas as opposed to the brown bear's preference for open spaces usually ensures that the two species avoid confrontations in areas where they are sympatric.

There has been a recent increase in interactions between brown bears and polar bears. Brown bears have been seen moving increasingly northward into territories formerly claimed by polar bears. Brown bears tend to dominate polar bears in disputes over carcasses, and dead polar bear cubs have been found in brown bear dens (Dye 2005).

Giant panda cubs have also been reportedly eaten by brown bears (Brown 1993).

[brobear]

nationalzoo.si.edu/publications/zoogoer/2008/1/amur_tigers.cfm

Amur tigers live with wildlife from boreal forests and from other parts of Asia, says Wildlife Conservation Society biologist Dale Miquelle, who lives in Russia and has been studying tigers there for 15 years. "Nowhere else in the world do tigers need to defend their kills from boreal predators such as wolves, brown bears, wolverines, and lynx, while at the same time coexisting with carnivores more common to Asia, such as the leopard and Himalayan black bear." All of these mammals and many others benefit from the protection of Amur tiger habitat, as do hundreds of bird species.

[brobear]

- TIGERS AND BEARS IN RUSSIA - wildfact.com/forum/ - by Peter.

The problem with bears is they know how to fight. They are very different from the very large Assam herbivores, that is. Tigers responded by hunting smaller bears, like immatures and females. They also have to be able to defend their kills from male bears, meaning they have to stand a chance in a fight with a heavier cleptocrate. According to Krechmar, they are just about able to to that. The number of male tigers displaced by male bears is very limited.

The combined result of snow, regular crop failures, nordic long distance walking and hunting bears is interesting.

At about similar body length, Amur tigers seem more athletic than Assam tigers. Male Assam tigers are built like tanks, but male Amur tigers seldom exceed 210 kg. Assuming male Amur tigers fight dangerous opponents more often than male Assam tigers (other tigers as well as bears and wild pigs) and have just about what it needed to survive, the conclusion is a fighter in the world of big cats isn't built like a tank.

He is long and tall, has a large skull, extra-large canines and large fore-arms, but he lacks the deep chest and the bulky rump often regarded as typical for a good critter. It seems, therefore, that mass was offered for agility and some kind of endurance.

I doubt if Amur tigers would have reached the size many think they reached a century ago. Exceptional animals no doubt were there in the days of plenty, but the conditions in north-east Asia just do not allow for tigers built like tanks. Like real tiger tanks in World War Two, chances are they would get bogged down in the mud and snow. Besides, even at 500 pounds they would still need a hundred more to get to a par with an average male brown bear. The problem is you are no longer a hunter at that weight. In the conditions in Russia, you need power, but agility, speed and endurance seem as important.

[brobear]

Continued.... - EVOLUTION IN TIGERS AND BEARS

The factor behind size could be similar to the one in bears. Sexual drive could be the engine in both animals. Large enables more access to females, which would result in larger animals in the end.

Tigers and bears, of course, are different in that one is a typical hunter, whereas the other is not. The non-hunter, sizewise, could perhaps develop a bit more if he has a good nose and hunters he can rob, but a typical hunter can't. Unless he, as in Assam, has a year-round supply of large herbivores he's able to overcome with size foremost. Even then, however, athleticism and speed are needed to overcome resistance.

Male bears hunting large animals are not nearly as competent as tigers and the major reasons, I think, are body construction and size. Perhaps 600 pounds is the limit, but chances are it is closer to 500.

But why then are there no 500-pound male bears hunting herbivores all the time? Because they can't compete with a big cat of similar size. They don't have the weapons, the speed and the skill needed. Not enough to do it all the time everywhere. Their body evolved for robustness, probably in order to compete with other bears. Robustness and size result in digging and cleptocracy, but it wouldn't enable hunting. Even if they get experienced in hunting, they wouldn't compare to a real pro.

So genetics it is, in the end? I would go for yes. At some stage, mammals developed into what they are today. It comes down to the basic design, so it seems.

There always are exceptions. Polar bears are brown bears who adapted to new conditions. They are the only true carnivore in their family and the reason is plenty of blubber from animals unable to move fast on the ice. In spite of their size, however, I wouldn't say they compare to true hunters like big cats. In the end, you are what you are and that will never change. The real question is why it started and moved in the way it did. The answer to that one is that the essentials regarding (the origins of) species are in the genes. You can change a lot, but not that.

[brobear]

Continued.... OMNIVORES AS COMPETITORS

I posted some stories on fights between wild boars and tigers. Tigers win most fights, but they are far from invincible. I didn't post a lot on bears and tigers in Russia yet, but the info I have suggests it also is a close call in most cases. Tigers win most fights, but they struggle against large males. Brown bears win on points, most Russian authorities think. I think it could be a bit closer than that, but chances are large male bears often go unchallenged. They are just too big for an average male tiger. Could have been a bit different in the days of plenty, but exceptional tigers have not yet been captured today. Why that is, is anybody's guess. Bears, to quote a poster from AVA, are no joke. I'm sure we all agree.