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Post by brobear on Mar 21, 2019 9:12:54 GMT -5
There is so much more involved in a fight other than who is the biggest. 
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 21, 2019 10:17:53 GMT -5
There is so much more involved in a fight other than who is the biggest. |
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Post by tom on Mar 21, 2019 10:24:55 GMT -5
There is so much more involved in a fight other than who is the biggest. Absolutely. IMO aggression plays a HUGE part in a fight. Perfect example is a she bear protecting her cubs against a boar who may outweigh her by 300+ pounds. But her willingness to protect her cubs, she attacks with a tenacity that almost seems to shock the boar into re-thinking his intention of killing the cubs. A "SHOCK & AWE" tactic if you will. You may remember that terminology used in the 2nd Gulf War. Shock and awe (technically known as rapid dominance) is a tactic based on the use of overwhelming power and spectacular displays of force to paralyze the enemy's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight.[1][2] Though the concept has a variety of historical precedent, the doctrine was explained by Harlan K. Ullman and James P. Wade in 1996 and was developed specifically for application by the US military by the National Defense University of the United States.[2][1] |
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Post by brobear on Mar 21, 2019 10:42:37 GMT -5
Another example we're all familiar with here; Mr. barren ground grizzly meets Mr. polar bear. The grizzly's aggressive nature intimidates the giant.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 27, 2019 11:54:58 GMT -5
THIS HERE IS ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF A BEAR, UNLIMITED BIPEDALISM.  |
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 27, 2019 17:26:48 GMT -5
Agree standing up in battle can be a huge advantage when engaging in battle in my opinion.
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Post by brobear on Mar 28, 2019 1:58:46 GMT -5
Agree standing up in battle can be a huge advantage when engaging in battle in my opinion. Wish I could remember the title of the book. It gives a brief comparison of bears with apes. But, it says that a bear has better bipedal ability than a great ape, the bear being more comfortable in this position. The Asiatic black bear being ( on this topic ) the best of the bears. I agree, bipedalism is a great advantage, giving better usage of both paws. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 2:27:40 GMT -5
Another example we're all familiar with here; Mr. barren ground grizzly meets Mr. polar bear. The grizzly's aggressive nature intimidates the giant. I have a friend with the temperament of a barren ground grizzly  . These critters do intimidate the larger polar bear, however, there is an account posted on the shaggy forum, that two grizzlies managed to intimidate 1/3 of the polar bears. Some large older male polar bears have learned to ignore the grizzlies according to Scott Schalibier and the grizzlies don't seem to press on once their intimidation fails. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 2:41:47 GMT -5
Bipedalism: better balance, and if you tower over your oponent that is a huge advantage. Bears use the standing position to hit bulls on the skull and break it.
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Post by brobear on Mar 28, 2019 3:06:32 GMT -5
Bipedalism: better balance, and if you tower over your oponent that is a huge advantage. Bears use the standing position to hit bulls on the skull and break it. I finally remembered. Easy-to-read but full of fantastic bear facts.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 8:55:01 GMT -5
Bipedalism: better balance, and if you tower over your oponent that is a huge advantage. Bears use the standing position to hit bulls on the skull and break it. I finally remembered. Easy-to-read but full of fantastic bear facts. This book looks familiar. Does it talk about bear strength too? |
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Post by brobear on Apr 28, 2019 3:36:16 GMT -5
This book looks familiar. Does it talk about bear strength too?
Yes. And about bipedalism, it states that bears are even more comfortable at standing and walking on their hind legs than the great apes. In my own words, when face-to-face with another big cat, they normally end up fighting standing ( with a limited balance ) bipedal. Consider if a fight should take place between a lion or a tiger against a big male bear, face-to-face and each standing bipedal. the cat would be clumsy in comparison to the bear.
You can find this book on Amazon. I highly recommend it. My favorite chapter is ( there is a scientific term I cannot remember ) about bears and self healing. The Medicine Bear.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 6:19:28 GMT -5
This book looks familiar. Does it talk about bear strength too? Thats the question I wanted to ask you. |
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Post by brobear on Apr 28, 2019 6:25:08 GMT -5
This book looks familiar. Does it talk about bear strength too? Thats the question I wanted to ask you. That was my "Yes" remark.  But in no great detail. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 28, 2019 6:31:32 GMT -5
This book looks familiar. Does it talk about bear strength too? Yes. And about bipedalism, it states that bears are even more comfortable at standing and walking on their hind legs than the great apes. In my own words, when face-to-face with another big cat, they normally end up fighting standing ( with a limited balance ) bipedal. Consider if a fight should take place between a lion or a tiger against a big male bear, face-to-face and each standing bipedal. the cat would be clumsy in comparison to the bear. You can find this book on Amazon. I highly recommend it. My favorite chapter is ( there is a scientific term I cannot remember ) about bears and self healing. The Medicine Bear. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 30, 2019 8:21:21 GMT -5
Science daily magazine.
Science Newsfrom research organizations
Flat-footed fighters: Heel-down posture in great apes and humans confers a fighting advantage
Summary:
Walking on our heels, a feature that separates great apes, including humans, from other primates, confers advantages in fighting, according to a new study. Although moving from the balls of the feet is important for quickness, standing with heels planted allows more swinging force, suggesting that aggression may have played a part in shaping our stance.
Another hypothesis, which Carrier and colleague Christopher Cunningham of the University of Georgia explored, is that a plantigrade stance allows the arms more striking force by increasing the torque, or rotational force that can be applied to the ground.
Full article:
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170215084113.htm
Bears are ”plantigrade” while big cats are “Digitigrade”, this means bears have more swinging force and a FIGHTING ADVANTAGE.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2020 21:13:00 GMT -5
So many things to consider.
#1 - Numbers. This is a huge advantage.
Lions.
#2 - Experience. This is a great advantage if coupled with learning ability.
Bears have more experience in face to face fights than tigers but not more than lions.
#3 - Size and Weight.
Bear.
#4 - Strength and Leverage.
Bear.
#5 - Speed and Quick Reflexes.
Big cats.
#6 - Agility.
Big cats.
#7 - Natural Weapons.
Canines-big cats. Claws-bears.
#8 - Natural Armor.
Bears
#9 - Grappling Ability.
Bears.
#10 - Intelligence.
Bears.
#11 - Bipedal Ability.
Bears.
#11 - Aggressiveness.
Relative. Bears, lions, and tigers can all be very aggressive if pushed.
#12 - Bite Force.
Same weight-advantage big cats. Brown bears with a 200 + lb weight advantage have a higher bite force.
*13 - Stamina.
Bear.
*14 - Endurance to Pain and Injury.
Bears
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 15:36:37 GMT -5
A common mistake that many people have made (myself included) is assuming that the heavier animal wins automatically. The issue is that other factors such as aggression, fighting experience, personality, intelligence, and other factors aren't fully taken into account. Usually when people think of many faceoffs, it seems to be almost like they're looking at it from a video game like perspective and forgetting that the fighters are living breathing organisms.
But point being, how much would you guys say that size/weight matters? Sure it does, but what about other factors? Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
Would any of you support a black bear weighing 600 lbs over a grizzly bear weighing 500 lbs? How about a large mastiff weighing 50 lbs heavier than that of an alpha grey wolf?
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 26, 2020 15:43:39 GMT -5
My opinion is that weight is already 50% of the fight, especially if an animal has a 200 + lb weight advantage. That is why its called a "weight advantage", because its an advantage. Of course then we have the other 50%, which are all the other morphology advantages that one might have over the other, like fighting ability, strength, stamina, weapons, natural armour, aggressiveness, PC2 value (grappling ability), bite force, more robust limbs, more muscles.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 15:46:21 GMT -5
My opinion is that weight is already 50% of the fight, especially if an animal has a 200 + lb weight advantage. That is why its called a "weight advantage", because its an advantage. Of course then we have the other 50%, which are all the other morphology advantages that one might have over the other, like fighting ability, strength, stamina, weapons, natural armour, aggressiveness, PC2 value (grappling ability), bite force, more robust limbs, more muscles.
A 200 lb weight advantage is quite large. A 200 lbs weight advantage consisting of primarily muscle is going to be superior compared to one that's mostly fat would you agree? |
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. These critters do intimidate the larger polar bear, however, there is an account posted on the shaggy forum, that two grizzlies managed to intimidate 1/3 of the polar bears. Some large older male polar bears have learned to ignore the grizzlies according to Scott Schalibier and the grizzlies don't seem to press on once their intimidation fails.
But in no great detail.