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Post by brobear on Dec 26, 2019 13:14:22 GMT -5
The Ngandong tiger ( max ) has a head-and-body length of roughly 1 foot 3 inches greater than the average black grizzly. Grizzly: 264 kg ( 582 pounds ).
The tiger has better than a 1 foot ( 33 cm ) head-and-body length and bipedal height advantage. Their weight is near parity - give or take a pound or two either way.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 26, 2019 17:16:54 GMT -5
Guys, we have to take one thing into consideration, according the the top lion boys, the leaders of the lion team, Guategojira from Wildfact, which his real name is Raul Valvert, always has overweighted the tigers in his charts. Am not saying its true, but just something to consider.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 26, 2019 17:23:03 GMT -5
At weight parity, the Ussuri brown bear still wins (especially if the bear is male) because it has stronger forearms, bulkier built, and greater strength (shorter backbone = strength to take the place of speed) not to mention better grappling abilities.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 26, 2019 17:33:33 GMT -5
This is a good match up, at weight parity the Ngandong tiger has more than 1 foot head and body length advantage. Ussuri brown bear vs Amur tiger at weight parity is 6/10 for the bear in my opinion. But the Ngandong tiger obviously has more morphological advantages than the Amur. Ngandong was a better grappler and had more robust limbs than Amurs. So, at weight parity, face to face fight, i have this fight at 50%.
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Post by brobear on Dec 26, 2019 17:59:20 GMT -5
This is a good match up, at weight parity the Ngandong tiger has more than 1 foot head and body length advantage. Ussuri brown bear vs Amur tiger at weight parity is 6/10 for the bear in my opinion. But the Ngandong tiger obviously has more morphological advantages than the Amur. Ngandong was a better grappler and had more robust limbs than Amurs. So, at weight parity, face to face fight, i have this fight at 50%. Yes, this face-off is pretty much the same as Bengal tiger vs grizzly at weight-parity. The Amur tiger is a lighter-built cat and so probably a tad faster than the Bengal. The question is, which is better against the bear? The Ngandong tiger cannot match the bear's physical brute strength. A tiger is a good grappler; the grizzly is better. At weight parity, the tiger is bigger. If we were to see them in bipedal position in their struggle, this would be quite clear as the tiger would be standing better than a foot taller. I consider videos I've seen of other bear species facing big cats. This includes even tigers who cannot get past the defenses of a much smaller bear. I also consider Dale. He ambushes a grizzly she-bear of near-weight-parity. That was no easy kill for the big male tiger. It was a difficult struggle that lasted 20 minutes. If the bear had been a mature male grizzly of this same size ( like a barren ground grizzly ), the outcome may very well have been drastically different. I will speculate grizzly 6 out of 10 at weight parity.
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Post by smedz on Dec 27, 2019 8:44:50 GMT -5
Guys, we have to take one thing into consideration, according the the top lion boys, the leaders of the lion team, Guategojira from Wildfact, which his real name is Raul Valvert, always has overweighted the tigers in his charts. Am not saying its true, but just something to consider. That's a leader of the lion team talking, in reality they probably don't like the fact that his charts show tigers being heavier than lions. Just something else to take into consideration.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 27, 2019 10:07:46 GMT -5
Guys, we have to take one thing into consideration, according the the top lion boys, the leaders of the lion team, Guategojira from Wildfact, which his real name is Raul Valvert, always has overweighted the tigers in his charts. Am not saying its true, but just something to consider. That's a leader of the lion team talking, in reality they probably don't like the fact that his charts show tigers being heavier than lions. Just something else to take into consideration. Yeah, thats why i said just to take it under consideration.
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Post by brobear on Dec 27, 2019 10:35:33 GMT -5
Guys, we have to take one thing into consideration, according the the top lion boys, the leaders of the lion team, Guategojira from Wildfact, which his real name is Raul Valvert, always has overweighted the tigers in his charts. Am not saying its true, but just something to consider. That's a leader of the lion team talking, in reality they probably don't like the fact that his charts show tigers being heavier than lions. Just something else to take into consideration. I see our point smedz. If Guategojira was going to "cheat" he would have down-sized the tiger.
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Post by brobear on Jan 3, 2020 4:31:27 GMT -5
*Note: very unlikely that a Ngandong tiger was ever faced by a grizzly. Ngandong Tiger is Endemic from Ngandong, Solo Region, Central Java Province, Indonesia.
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Post by brobear on Jan 3, 2020 5:44:07 GMT -5
dinopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wanhsien_Tiger Panthera tigris acutidens is the earliest known extinct subspecies of tiger, which is populated in almost the whole of Asia. On the islands of Indonesia , it has been supplanted by another extinct subspecies of tiger known as the Trinil Tiger(Panthera tigris trinilensis). In other parts of Asia, it had disappeared a little later, just after the emergence of the modern day South China Tiger (Panthera tigris amoyensis), which is probably its descendant. P. t. acutidens also sometimes called the antique tiger. Today his remains are in the National Museum of Natural History(Naturalis) in Leiden (Netherlands) in the collection of Eugene Dubois . East Asia, was probably the center of the origin of the subfamily Pantherinae. The oldest tiger fossils indicate thatabout two million years ago, tigers were already quite common in this region. However, the glacial and interglacial climatic variations and other geological events caused repeated geographic changes in the area. According to current knowledge, the common ancestor of modern Tigers comes from the temporal parameters 157-72.000 years ago. This is much later than expected from a leopard, which is believed to be originated in Africa 825-470.000 years ago and arrived in Asia 300-170.000 years ago. Probably the earliest was a tiger known as Trinil tiger . This tiger was the largest subspecies of Panthera tigris.It is not popular like the american lion or the smilodon populator but could be the largest natural cat of all time Its body weight of the predator reached 500 kg, and the height at the withers was 120 cm. According to the assumptions of the last of genetic research, the tigers have almost entirely disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene era, maybe around 10.000-12.000 years ago. The small remaining portion of the population survived, probably in the territory of modern China. Of tigers in the area again began to spread by migrating along the river after its prey - mainly deer and wild boars. Although the Tigers are all continental closely related and can be considered as regional populations, rather than separate subspecies, they have developed certain physical and morphological properties to adapt to environmental conditions.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 3, 2020 15:54:10 GMT -5
* Note: very unlikely that a Ngandong tiger was ever faced by a grizzly. Ngandong Tiger is Endemic from Ngandong, Solo Region, Central Java Province, Indonesia. True, i never read of a Pleistocene bear at Indonesia. But guess who was at Indonesia during the Pleistocene? Gigantopithecus blacki.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 5, 2020 19:52:57 GMT -5
The Mosbach lion seems to be a rival of the Ngadong tiger in its domain.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 5, 2020 19:54:45 GMT -5
This is a good match up, at weight parity the Ngandong tiger has more than 1 foot head and body length advantage. Ussuri brown bear vs Amur tiger at weight parity is 6/10 for the bear in my opinion. But the Ngandong tiger obviously has more morphological advantages than the Amur. Ngandong was a better grappler and had more robust limbs than Amurs. So, at weight parity, face to face fight, i have this fight at 50%. Extinct big cats seem to be more robust than extant big cats in general and the Ngadong tiger is included.
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Post by brobear on Jan 6, 2020 0:56:15 GMT -5
This is a good match up, at weight parity the Ngandong tiger has more than 1 foot head and body length advantage. Ussuri brown bear vs Amur tiger at weight parity is 6/10 for the bear in my opinion. But the Ngandong tiger obviously has more morphological advantages than the Amur. Ngandong was a better grappler and had more robust limbs than Amurs. So, at weight parity, face to face fight, i have this fight at 50%. Extinct big cats seem to be more robust than extant big cats in general and the Ngadong tiger is included. The Ngandong tiger probably never met a grizzly. However, the Pleistocene Chinese grizzly ( the original Ursus arctos ) did share his environment with the Wanhsien tiger and we have a topic on this one too here. There was little if any difference in size between these two tigers.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 6, 2020 23:07:38 GMT -5
Could you show me the link please? I have been searching for it but to no avail.
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Post by brobear on Jan 7, 2020 0:14:54 GMT -5
Could you show me the link please? I have been searching for it but to no avail. Bear Predation and Face-Off Topics... just scroll down.
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Post by brobear on Jan 10, 2020 3:20:17 GMT -5
Size:
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Post by brobear on Jan 10, 2020 3:22:20 GMT -5
Size:
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Post by brobear on Jan 10, 2020 9:53:00 GMT -5
SIZE:
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Post by brobear on Jan 10, 2020 10:14:07 GMT -5
Head-and-body length ( maximum ): 233 cm ( 7 feet 8 inches ). Weight: 368 Kg ( 811 pounds ). Rocky Mountain Grizzly ( Montana and Wyoming ) a bear this size ( head-and-body length ) averages 500 pounds. An 800 pound grizzly is likely to measure nearly 8 feet long and stand almost 8 feet tall bipedal. Note: a grizzly has greater girth than a tiger.
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