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Post by brobear on Jul 10, 2024 12:00:21 GMT -5
WF's 'ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)' is a joke. Especially since the radical, juvenile, dishonest, extremely biased fanboy (known by many names) joined-up and became the "teacher's pet" to the Big Boss Fake-Professor. (1) They accept to 'The W.J. Jankowski Story' as a confirmed event (even though biologists reject it). (2) They accept the 'Ochkarik and Chlamida' event as confirmed (even though not a single shred of evidence was found). (3) They accept the 'Odyr and Misha' story of the tiger killing a big male adult brown bear as confirmed (even though the dead bear was a 3-year-old adolescent). There was a time when the Fake-Professor would have rejected all of this "he said, she said/his opinion, her opinion" crap as evidence. Or perhaps, he himself has always been a biased faker. *I will add - more than one fake-professor in that WF "house of false information"
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Post by brobear on Jul 13, 2024 9:24:52 GMT -5
The WF resident fanboy will post a picture of a female or adolescent brown bear, and another picture of a large male tiger by the same camera trap, and claim "the tiger is as big as the full-grown male bear." The Big Boss Fake-Professor praises his efforts. The WF resident fanboy will claim unproven stories, where there is no eye-witness nor any real evidence, to confirm the story and call it "confirmed." The Big Boss Fake-Professor congratulates his efforts. Unlike as he once did (years ago) the Big Boss Fake-Professor refuses to debunk what he knows is false information.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 10:57:24 GMT -5
By the Fake-Professor: Quote:01 - PREDATION carnivoraforum.com/index/
1a - Predation on bears
Tigers are strictly predatory animals and hunt whatever is available. In the RFE, bears are abundant and therefore hunted on a regular basis. Both black and brown bears are hunted. In some areas and periods, smaller black bears are targeted (modern research). In other areas (Tkachenko, 1997) and periods (Bromlej, 1965, as well as modern research), brown bears are more often hunted. Preferences, it seems, depend on (relative) abundance, availability and other (unknown) factors. __________________________________________- Fact: Bears are not hunted on a regular basis. Bears (moon bears, adolescent brown bears, and adult female brown bears) make up roughly 3% of an adult male tiger's diet.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:01:11 GMT -5
Continued.... Most bears taken are small and medium-sized animals (Chapter 19). Larger bears are killed less frequently. Adult tigresses have been known to hunt adult female black bears (Sysoev), smallish but adult female brown bears (Kaplanov, 1948) and, occasionally, (immature) brown bears exceeding their own weight (Bromlej, 1965). Adult male tigers hunt adult male black bears (Sysoev, 1960 and Tkachenko, 1997), who, according to KTKC, average 183 kg. in north-eastern China. Some male tigers, as was stated by Kaplanov (1948), Bromlej (1965) and Goodrich (in Seryodkin et al, 2005), hunt adult brown bears on a regular basis, but it seems even these specialists target adult females with cubs only (Chapter 19 and posts 247, 33, 350 and 353). ______________________________________ Fact: There is one single unconfirmed case of a tigress killed a fat adolescent male brown bear that *might have been heavier than she was.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:04:18 GMT -5
Continued....
Adult female brown bears, according to Kucerenko, average 189 kg. (range 120-280 and, according to KTKC, up to 360 kg.), whereas adult male tigers average 175-195 kg. (WCS and Miquelle). Most adult females (brown bears) killed are somewhat smaller than an average adult male tiger (Chapter 19), but some females are similar or near-similar in size. Recent research confirms Bajkov's (1925) statement that tigers are able to hunt brown bears of up to almost their own weight. ________________________________________ Fact: All bears killed by Amur tigers are killed from ambush.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:07:16 GMT -5
Continued.... 1b - Predation on large brown bears
There are reliable reports on large brown bears killed by tigers, but the number is very limited indeed and it also is a fact 'large', apart from one exception (Bromlej, 1965), was never specified. All incidents mentioned below occured before 1970 and it is in this respect interesting to note Russian researchers evaluating records on the size of Siberian tigers noticed a gradual decline in weight in Siberian tigers in the last century. It seems the decline started about a century ago and continued to roundabout 1970 (post 436). ___________________________________________ Fact: Adult bears are always referred to as "large"; Tigers hunt large female brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:11:02 GMT -5
Continued.... W.J. Jankowski (in Mazak, 1983) shot a very large (11.6 'over curves' and about 300 kg.) male tiger in Heilongjiang (north-eastern China) in July 1943. Very close to the tiger, Jankowski found the remains (head and paws) of a 'very large' male brown bear which had been killed and eaten by the tiger some days before he was shot (unpublished letter, dated May 8, 1970). This report, however, was never mentioned by researchers and both Jankowski and Mazak, apart from a photograph of the tiger and the letter mentioned, did not provide crucial details on the bear. Too detailed to dismiss and too meagre to accept, one could conclude. ________________________________________ Fact: Biologists rejected the Jankowski story. No tiger was seen (other than a photograph); so never measured or weighed. The species of bear (if there really was a bear) was actually never stated by the sport-hunter, Jankowski.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:13:30 GMT -5
Continued....
K.G. Abramov (unpublished notes, provided to Mazak by Abramov's widow in 1966) also reported on a male tiger who had killed an 'old, large male Schatun' in the 1958-1959 winter (in the Central Sichote-Alin Mountains). This case wasn't dismissed, but researchers apparently concluded the sex of the brown bear was unclear. ________________________________ Fact: A healthy adult male tiger killed a sickly starving brown bear (sex unknown).
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:19:14 GMT -5
Continued.....
Bromlej (in Heptner and Sludskij, 1980, page 149), in May 1951, found the remains of a 158 cm. (way of measuring unknown) and 170 kg. (approximately) brown bear killed by a tigress near the Tatibe River. The tigress remained 3-4 days near the kill and consumed the fattiest parts. Although Bromlej didn't state anything on the age and sex of the bear, research (in two threads) showed he was misquoted by both Mazak (1983) and Heptner and Sludskij (1980). One American female researcher, in her mail to Bonns, even stated she knew of a " ... good-sized male killed in or near its den in 1951 ... ". It is not known in which circumstances the bear was killed and Bromlej didn't make statements regarding the struggle. The incident, however, is well authenticated and shows a tigress is able to kill a larger bear. _________________________________________ Fact: No size or weights confirmed. Nevertheless, I have no doubts that a full-grown tigress is capable of ambushing and killing a fat 3-to-4-year-old male brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:22:07 GMT -5
Continued.....
Rakov also referred to a 'large brown bear' killed by a tiger in December 1959 near the Svetlaya River. The tiger remained 5-10 days near the kill. The gender wasn't established. Kaplanov (1948) also mentioned an incident of predation on a 'large' brown bear. Again, details were not provided. _____________________________________________ Fact: The gender of the "large brown bear' was female. Tigers do not ambush full-grown male brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:26:17 GMT -5
Continued..... The level of predation differs. In some areas, predation on bears is limited, whereas the situation in other areas is very different. It also has to be noted predation has a seasonal character. Most studies indicate bears (black and brown together) constitute between 1-1,5% (recent research) and 8,4% (V.K. Abramov, 1962) of the total food-intake of tigers. In some areas, however, the percentage (up to 37%) is much higher (Tkachenko, 1997). _____________________________________________ Fact: All bears killed by tigers are either a moon bear, an adolescent brown bear, or an adult brown she-bear. Almost every bear killed is at least 100 pounds less in weight than the tiger. All bears killed by a tiger are killed from ambush.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:30:51 GMT -5
Continued..... Adult male tigers hunt bears more often than adult females (Chapter 19). Although only three cases of predation have been described, it seems unlikely all of the bears killed in fights near kill sites (post 55) were killed by adult male tigers. It also seems unlikely tigresses, as was suggested by some researchers, only very rarely hunt bears. The skill of the tigress described by Kaplanov (1948), suggests some tigresses could be experienced regarding bears. __________________________________________
Fact: A tigress will only kill adolescent moon bears and adolescent brown bears or female bears weighing less than herself.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:42:11 GMT -5
Continued...... 1c - Predation on tigers
Bears do not habitually hunt tigers, but it is known adult male brown bears consume tigers killed in disputes. It seems some adult male brown bears, in some circumstances, deliberately target tigers (posts 520 and 536). Kostoglod mentioned a case in which a bear followed a tiger for a long distance (Chapter 19). The tiger escaped, but another one was attacked, killed and eaten. Although tigresses sometimes perish in fights with male brown bears, the number is incidents is too limited to get to general statements. ________________________________ Fact: A tigress defending her cubs or desperate for food with hungry cubs depending on her, might attempt to defend a carcass.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:45:18 GMT -5
Continued.......
In 2010, two tigresses, a subadult (19 months of age) and an 8-year old ('Vera') with two (about 18 months old) cubs, were killed by brown bears (post 520). Apart from the fact they were killed by brown bears, not much was known. The young tigress, behaviourwise, showed signs of disease and it is also known at least 4 other tigers (two subadult males, one adult female and one adult male) displayed abnormal behaviour before their death (Miquelle). There is no additional information on the 8-year old tigress mentioned above. _________________________________ Fact: It is normal behavior for any healthy predator to attack and kill a weak or sickly predator of another species.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:49:47 GMT -5
Continued......
In the last 50 years, according to Alexious3, at least two adult male tigers have been killed by brown bears (post 568). One perished in 1960 and it could be this is the case used by Sysoev for his fictional story on 'Amba'. Another tiger died after a fight in 1972. Rukovsky mentioned another incident (post 70). Two of the three male tigers killed, at roundabout four years of age, were young adults. The third one was described as a medium-sized animal (age unknown). ______________________________ Fact: A 4-year-old male tiger is, in maturity, the equivalent of a teenage boy - young and foolish. A full-grown fully-matured male tiger knows better than to fight with a full-grown male brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:55:15 GMT -5
Continued..... There are other accounts of male tigers killed by brown bears (Sysoev mentioned two cases and Bonns mentioned an incident near or in a river in 1943), but these, as far as is known, have not been acknowledged by researchers. The number of tigers killed in fights between 1943-1996 (referring to the table posted earlier) indicate there could be more cases (posts 17 and 55). Apart from one, all fights referred to in the table (post 55) were corroborated by Russian researchers, but in most incidents details were missing. It is, however, known brown bears were involved in most incidents. __________________________________ Fact: As a bear enthusiast, when a story is not confirmed, we accept that. However, sadly, the tiger fans, including those fake-professors who claim to be the elite, claim unconfirmed stories to be hard facts.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:57:05 GMT -5
Continued...... The information available suggests most tigers killed were killed in winter. As brown bears hibernate in winter, it has to be assumed non-hibernating bears ('Shatuns') were involved in most of these. Schatuns are desperate animals and most seem to perish. This means many would be inclined to attack any animal, tigers and other (hibernating) bears included (post 584). _____________________________________________ Fact: I agree.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 11:59:14 GMT -5
Continued...... Although at least one was a smallish female who killed and ate a much larger hibernating male brown bear, most Schatuns seem to be males. As most of the 'large brown bears' killed by tigers mentioned above were killed in winter, it has to be assumed some, if not all, of these were Schatuns. Same for tigers killed in winter. ______________________________
Fact: I agree.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 12:02:28 GMT -5
Continued....... 1d - Conclusions Tigers in the RFE habitually hunt brown bears for food. Not the other way round. Most bears killed are small to medium-sized animals. Even adult male tigers specialising on brown bears seldom target bears of their own size. Adult females, however, have been killed more than once and there is no doubt (Bromlej, 1965) a tiger is able to kill a larger brown bear. __________________________ Fact: No tiger of either sex will ever ambush an adult bear heavier than himself/herself.
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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 12:06:33 GMT -5
Continued.......
There are reliable reports on large brown bears killed by tigers. But 'large', apart form the bear killed in the 1951 incident, was never substantiated and most bears were killed in winter, indicating Schatuns were involved in most. Schatuns are desperate animals, willing to attack anything they encounter. When Schatuns attack adult male tigers, fights erupt and these can go either way. It seems Schatuns were involved in most of the few incidents with a tragic outcome. _______________________________
1951 - a tigress (of unknown size) killed a fat adolescent male brown bear of unknown weight from ambush. Only a shatun bear will go tiger-hunting. There are tastier meats to be hunted in the RFE.
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