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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 7:12:21 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from yet polar bears in the circus have won fights with lions and tigers despite reaching only a third of their size. Polar bears also fight to death during mating season despite their tendency to overheat. I believe a large polar bear from 1000 to 1760 pounds can still kill a 1800 pound bison easily especially in a favourable climate (e.g. if the bison ventures north). Barren ground grizzlies can kill musk oxens twice their weight despite it being done by ambush, surely a larger polar bear at 1000 pounds can easily kill a 700 to 900 pound musk oxen.
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Post by brobear on Dec 21, 2018 7:39:49 GMT -5
There were also fights where the polar bear lost to the big cat such as Roosevelt vs Peary. Roosevelt was a big 500 pound lion and Peary a 560 pound polar bear. The lion killed the bear in the "10th round" or so reported. But this report tells me that the fight lasted too long for the bear. Perhaps ( I believe her name was Verox ) managed to kill the lion in less time. Also note that a barren ground grizzly will go head-on with a musk ox, grabbing him on his muzzle. Also note: send a lion or tiger into the polar bear's kingdom and the bear will never lose that battle.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 21, 2018 8:34:21 GMT -5
Ursus.....you said polar bears have won fights with tigers before, do you have the accounts of that please? I have been searching for accounts of polars killing or defeating tigers but never ever saw one. The absolute only account we have of a polar bear killing a big cat is Velox, female polar bear that killed 2 african lions while with Ringling Bros circus. circusnospin.blogspot.com/2012/05/velox-polar-bear-that-killed-two-lions.html?m=1
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Post by tom on Dec 21, 2018 9:40:34 GMT -5
I believe a large polar bear from 1000 to 1760 pounds can still kill a 1800 pound bison easily especially in a favourable climate (e.g. I respectfully disagree with your comment on "easily". In any climate a bull bison will be no easy kill even for the largest of Bears.
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Post by brobear on Dec 21, 2018 15:26:42 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/board/38/felidae No, I have zero accounts of polar bear killing a tiger. I completely agree with Tom. In fights with domestic bulls, including Spanish fighting bulls and feral Texas Longhorns, a grizzly nearly always wins unless man-made conditions cause the fight too difficult. But a bull bison is a far more dangerous animal with great size and great strength and high aggression all in one package. Those big boar grizzlies of the prairie and in the Sierra Nevada Mountains were successful only about half the time according to the old tales.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 21, 2018 16:55:36 GMT -5
I believe a large polar bear from 1000 to 1760 pounds can still kill a 1800 pound bison easily especially in a favourable climate (e.g. I respectfully disagree with your comment on "easily". In any climate a bull bison will be no easy kill even for the largest of Bears. I have to agree with Tom here. Even though the polar bear is a great fighter and hunter, the few times he kills bull walrus is not an easy task at all. So against a bull bison there is no way it can be an easy kill, much less outside of the artic.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 21, 2018 16:59:05 GMT -5
Brobear...who said there are no accounts of polar bears killing tigers? I have searched and searched and nothing. I am really hoping ther Ursus will have one.
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Post by brobear on Dec 21, 2018 17:17:58 GMT -5
Brobear...who said there are no accounts of polar bears killing tigers? I have searched and searched and nothing. I am really hoping ther Ursus will have one. I said that *I have zero accounts of a polar bear killing a tiger. But then, neither have I sought such an account. Some might exist.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 21, 2018 17:30:14 GMT -5
Brobear...who said there are no accounts of polar bears killing tigers? I have searched and searched and nothing. I am really hoping ther Ursus will have one. I said that *I have zero accounts of a polar bear killing a tiger. But then, neither have I sought such an account. Some might exist. Lets hope so, lets just wait and see what Ursus says.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 1:35:21 GMT -5
Ursus.....you said polar bears have won fights with tigers before, do you have the accounts of that please? I have been searching for accounts of polars killing or defeating tigers but never ever saw one. The absolute only account we have of a polar bear killing a big cat is Velox, female polar bear that killed 2 african lions while with Ringling Bros circus. circusnospin.blogspot.com/2012/05/velox-polar-bear-that-killed-two-lions.html?m=1I can't find one, however, ten years ago, Big Bons was the one who mentioned an account of a polar bear killing a tiger but ended up dying not from the injuries but from overheating. Another poster named blodchamp also poster an account where polar bear.>lion>tiger. I disagree on the statement of the lion being superior to the tiger though. I believe a large polar bear from 1000 to 1760 pounds can still kill a 1800 pound bison easily especially in a favourable climate (e.g. I respectfully disagree with your comment on "easily". In any climate a bull bison will be no easy kill even for the largest of Bears. Hi Tom, I stand corrected there. I still support carnivores at close weights. Therefore exceptionally large polar bears at 1760 pounds to 2200 pounds can easily kill a bison. A polar bear at 1000 to 1400 pounds will have to work harder but if a mexcan grizzly at 700 pounds (upper range limit) can kill a spanish bull (outcome being almost 50/50), a polar bear at the weight range of 1400 pounds can kill a bison if it manages to pass its defenses easier than it can kill a bull walrus.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 22, 2018 3:55:59 GMT -5
Yeah Brobear told me that Big Bons said that. I just really wish we had that account.
Boldchamp was probably talking about this:
"When accidents happen, when strange animals are placed together and a fight starts, always try to protect the weaker animal, regardless of his species. You will hear it said that a tiger can kill a lion, or vice versa. In my experience i have seen all theories exploded. Tigers have killed lions, lions have killed polar bears, a small leopard has killed a large tiger. usually a polar bear can kill any of the big cats, but i have seen a lion kill a polar bear", Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, page 204-205.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2018 8:11:47 GMT -5
Ursus, read the book "California Grizzly" by by Tracy Irwin Storer. The grizzly nearly always won that fight regardless of the fact that the bear was chained to a post. Also, ask Kodiak about grizzly vs bull in the book, "BEAR, History of a Fallen King." Only after the "gringo's" took over in California did more bulls win the fights. This because they captured sub-adult bears and even black bears for the down-graded entertainment.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 22, 2018 8:27:38 GMT -5
In the California pit fights, the mexican grizzlies almost always killed the spanish bulls, sometimes even with disadvantages. Now, what most people dont know is that in the Roman colosseum fights, the European bears almost always killed the bulls, and always killed lions also.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 22, 2018 8:55:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 9:10:55 GMT -5
Now I understand why a brown bear is always on the look out for meat despite eating mostly plants.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2018 9:24:23 GMT -5
Now I understand why a brown bear is always on the look out for meat despite eating mostly plants. In N. America, before the European/American invasion of the West, the grizzly was bigger, meaner, and more carnivorous. The record inland grizzly skull ( Boone and Crockett ) is a found skull - discovered by a hunter. It is a skull of a grizzly from the old pioneer days. Human activity greatly effects the bear's diet and habits.
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Post by tom on Dec 22, 2018 11:58:49 GMT -5
Ursus.....you said polar bears have won fights with tigers before, do you have the accounts of that please? I have been searching for accounts of polars killing or defeating tigers but never ever saw one. The absolute only account we have of a polar bear killing a big cat is Velox, female polar bear that killed 2 african lions while with Ringling Bros circus. circusnospin.blogspot.com/2012/05/velox-polar-bear-that-killed-two-lions.html?m=1I can't find one, however, ten years ago, Big Bons was the one who mentioned an account of a polar bear killing a tiger but ended up dying not from the injuries but from overheating. Another poster named blodchamp also poster an account where polar bear.>lion>tiger. I disagree on the statement of the lion being superior to the tiger though. I respectfully disagree with your comment on "easily". In any climate a bull bison will be no easy kill even for the largest of Bears. Hi Tom, I stand corrected there. I still support carnivores at close weights. Therefore exceptionally large polar bears at 1760 pounds to 2200 pounds can easily kill a bison. A polar bear at 1000 to 1400 pounds will have to work harder but if a mexcan grizzly at 700 pounds (upper range limit) can kill a spanish bull (outcome being almost 50/50), a polar bear at the weight range of 1400 pounds can kill a bison if it manages to pass its defenses easier than it can kill a bull walrus. Let me be clear. I'm not saying that an exceptionally large Polar would not be able to kill a Bull Bison, although I think it would still be a 50/50 outcome. Where I differ from you is when you say "easily". A Bull Bison with an attitude is no EASY kill for anything short of an Abrams Tank.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2018 12:24:25 GMT -5
The big male grizzlies of the historical Wild West were close-in-size with coastal brownies. California grizzlies perhaps even bigger, and for them a bull bison was no easy kill. They mostly feasted on found carcasses and displaced wolves from kills. Otherwise, they mostly hunted calves and probably the occasional cow bison. Any fight with a bull was initiated by the bull. They very likely went by the same rule-book with the feral Texas Longhorns ( range cattle ).
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Post by Polar on Dec 23, 2018 16:54:32 GMT -5
In my opinion, a walrus is comparable to a hippo, rhino, or even a sub-adult elephant in killing difficulty. Bovines would be much easier than these, but a full-grown polar bear (not accustomed to killing land mammals) would probably have more trouble with wild bison or buffalos than a grizzly, due to lack of experience, but I think it can get the job done.
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Post by tom on Dec 23, 2018 17:16:24 GMT -5
In my opinion, a walrus is comparable to a hippo, rhino, or even a sub-adult elephant in killing difficulty. Bovines would be much easier than these, but a full-grown polar bear (not accustomed to killing land mammals) would probably have more trouble with wild bison or buffalos than a grizzly, due to lack of experience, but I think it can get the job done. You bring up a good point Polar. The Polar Bear is NOT accustomed to hunting many if any land mammals. My only objection to this discussion was that a Bull Bison would NOT be an easy kill even for an exceptionally large Polar Bear. Under the right circumstances and providing the Bear was of significant size, anything is possible I suppose, but it would likely be one hell of a battle. Would Polar Bears and Musk Ox overlap at all in their prospective environments and if so have they been known to prey on them? While a Musk Ox is no Bison with regards to raw power, it's still is a large mammal.
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