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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 3:51:37 GMT -5
I will add... in Pleistocene Europe ( according to evidence ) the bear, both cave bear and grizzly, were given esteem above all other animals by both the Neanderthals and H.sapiens. Above the wolf. Above the hyena. Above the cave lion. The first and oldest evidence; the burial in a primitive stone "coffin" of a man along with the skull of a grizzly - in roughly 80,000 BC. The oldest statue ever discovered is that of a bear.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 3:54:03 GMT -5
Q - Why do you think the bear started to lose it's prestige? I see more people in this day and age honoring big cats? Why the shift? You must read - THE BEAR, History of a Fallen King. The switch began with... Charlemagne (c.742-814), also known as Karl and Charles the Great, was a medieval emperor who ruled much of Western Europe from 768 to 814. The CHURCH declared war against the bear. For about 1,000 years all of Europe was at war against the bear. The only bear in Europe ( after the Pleistocene ) is the grizzly. This could ( and did ) take up a book to tell... but the lion was "hand-picked" by the Church as a replacement animal for the bear. The lion became the "Kong of Beasts" ( depending on location ) from the years 1000 AD to 1200 AD. As for today... Thanks Im gonna have to pick up the book from the library or order it. Also considering that we don't see bears hunt as much as big cats may be one of the reasons like as you said watching a lion or a tiger stalk a buffalo is more exciting than watching a grizzly catch a salmon.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 4:02:42 GMT -5
Brute says: Thanks Im gonna have to pick up the book from the library or order it. Also considering that we don't see bears hunt as much as big cats may be one of the reasons like as you said watching a lion or a tiger stalk a buffalo is more exciting than watching a grizzly catch a salmon. Very inexpensive from Amazon. So much valuable information in that book; written by a historian.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 4:16:14 GMT -5
Me, myself, i rather watch Grizzly bears catch salmon live in Katmai national park, but hey, thats just me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 4:30:58 GMT -5
Me, myself, i rather watch kodiak bears catch salmon live in Katmai national park, but hey, thats just me. I could be wrong about this but I don't think Katami bears are kodiak bears. I think these are 2 different bears On wikipedia it says that the bears that live on Katami are the Alaska Peninsula brown bear. Kodiak bears are bears that live only on Kodiak island. Let's see what brother bear think.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 4:34:07 GMT -5
Well Katmai national park is right across from kodiak island, in Alaska. Kodiak island has many different islands. But yeah lets see what Brobear says, now i am in doubt.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 4:54:59 GMT -5
I believe that after the Ice Age, as the ice was melting, the big bears of the Alaskan coast were separated. Some ended up on islands and some remained on the mainland. The Kodiak's are more "pure" Kamchatka-type bears while those left on the mainland have been repeatedly breeding with the inland Amur-type grizzlies. You can see the difference in the skull-shape. Kodiak's and Kamchatka's normally have a broader skull with a somewhat shorter muzzle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 5:01:32 GMT -5
I believe that after the Ice Age, as the ice was melting, the big bears of the Alaskan coast were separated. Some ended up on islands and some remained on the mainland. The Kodiak's are more "pure" Kamchatka-type bears while those left on the mainland have been repeatedly breeding with the inland Amur-type grizzlies. You can see the difference in the skull-shape. Kodiak's and Kamchatka's normally have a broader skull with a somewhat shorter muzzle. So the kodiak bear actually come from the kamchatka bear ?
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 5:09:31 GMT -5
Ok so are the Brown bears located at Katmai national park officially Kodiak bears or grizzly bears? Now we need to know , lol.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 5:16:10 GMT -5
I believe that after the Ice Age, as the ice was melting, the big bears of the Alaskan coast were separated. Some ended up on islands and some remained on the mainland. The Kodiak's are more "pure" Kamchatka-type bears while those left on the mainland have been repeatedly breeding with the inland Amur-type grizzlies. You can see the difference in the skull-shape. Kodiak's and Kamchatka's normally have a broader skull with a somewhat shorter muzzle. So the kodiak bear actually come from the kamchatka bear ? The common belief among bear biologists is that the Kamchatka bear is the ancestor of the Kodiak bear and the Amur ( Ussuri ) brown bear is the ancestor of all other American grizzlies. Its is my belief that the grizzlies of the Alaskan peninsula, during the Ice Age, were Kodiak's. Over the centuries, these coastal bears have been blending with inland grizzlies, becoming more-and-more "horribilis-like".
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 5:20:18 GMT -5
Ok so its really inconclusive, like a mix.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 5:34:07 GMT -5
Ok so its really inconclusive, like a mix. True, the coastal brown bears are classified as Ursus arctos horribilis by biologists and as Ursus arctos middendorffi by sport hunters. In truth, I believe them to be a subspecies hybrid.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 5:40:01 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 5:51:48 GMT -5
Yes, you are right Kodiak. They are generally called "brown bears" but they are listed as U.a. horribilis, as are inland grizzlies. No matter how much you feed an inland grizzly, he will never acquire Kodiak bear size. The coastal Alaskan peninsula grizzlies acquire a size impossible for an inland grizzly, yet not quite up to par with the Kodiak giants.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 7:26:45 GMT -5
Right i see. I just though that Katmai national park was part of Kodiak island, but its not.
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Post by brobear on Sept 30, 2018 7:37:04 GMT -5
Right i see. I just though that Katmai national park was part of Kodiak island, but its not. No, but during the Ice Age, the islands were part of the mainland. The Shelikof Strait did not exist. The Kodiak bear lived on the mainland coast. ( IMO ) some were separated by the rising ocean as the ice melted and some were left on the mainland. -Just my theory.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 7:41:30 GMT -5
That sounds just about right, looks that way.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 7:54:40 GMT -5
Back on topic, A humoristic Japanese world map representing Russia as a big bear
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 7:57:49 GMT -5
The Russian Bear (sitting, to the right) among the European powers courted by Bismarck in order to isolate France.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 30, 2018 8:01:45 GMT -5
Newer version of THE SITUATION IN THE FAR EAST, with a bear representing Russia intruding from the north, a bulldog representing the United Kingdom in south China, the Gallic frog representing France in southeast Asia, and the American eagle representing the United States approaching from the Philippines.
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