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Post by brobear on Sept 27, 2020 8:23:19 GMT -5
I suppose you mean at average animals in each species correct? Quote: A fresh new look and update ( strictly my personal opinions )... 1,000 pound ( half-ton ) grizzly boar. All face-to-face combat. *I believe that realistically, the average healthy male polar bear is bigger and heavier. But then, I spend little time reading about the "ice walkers".
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 27, 2020 8:30:19 GMT -5
Well a brown bear is certainly pound to pound stronger despite the fact it has a slightly inferior grappling ability in comparison to the polar bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 27, 2020 8:32:26 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely bigger at averages. Both the polar and the kodiak can reach the same max weights, although polars should reach those weights more regularly.
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Post by brobear on Sept 27, 2020 9:41:35 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely bigger at averages. Both the polar and the kodiak can reach the same max weights, although polars should reach those weights more regularly. You did read my entire post right; talking about a 1,000 pound brown bear. Now... our own "Weight Collection" reveals: Average mature male polar bear (6 years+) - 1075 pounds. We do not as yet have an average weight for a full-grown male polar bear ( 9+ years only ). Should be ( IMO ) roughly 1200 pounds.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 27, 2020 10:58:18 GMT -5
Yes i did, and i mostly agree with your list. I just dont agree in like 3 out of the 20 that you have.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 27, 2020 11:07:56 GMT -5
Ussuri brown bears also occasionally reach polar bear weights too but it’s way more rare than a Kodiak bear does.
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Post by brobear on Sept 27, 2020 12:51:21 GMT -5
Yes i did, and i mostly agree with your list. I just dont agree in like 3 out of the 20 that you have.
You kept sounding rather confused about the 1,000-pound brown bear Quote: I suppose you mean at average animals in each species correct? Anyway... Your three ( I'll guess ) polar bear/lion/tiger.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 27, 2020 13:04:11 GMT -5
Well let me give you the ones i do not agree with:
Even though the bear won most times in the California era, it was very close. The Spanish fighting bull is a beast really, it was breed specifically for fighting. I would say its 50%. Anyhow, if you think the bull only wins 30% then it should not be on your list because that list is only animals that would defeat an 1000 lb grizzly at least 50% of the times.
This is not bad at all. But i think its 50%. An american bison should defeat a gaur and we have it at 50%.
These ones are ok but they should not be on your list as they dont win at least 50%.
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Post by brobear on Sept 27, 2020 14:04:38 GMT -5
From Reply #95 ... excluding all except those who would ( IMO ) kill a 1,000-pound male brown bear in a face-off: ( 1 ) Elephant vs brown bear - elephant 10 / bear 0. ( 2 ) Hippopotamus vs brown bear - hippo 10 / bear 0. ( 3 ) Rhinoceros ( w. exception of Sumatran ) - rhino 10 / bear 0. ( 4 ) Elephant seal vs brown bear - seal 10 / bear 0. ( 5 ) Walrus vs brown bear - walrus 9 / bear 1. ( 6 ) Giraffe vs brown bear - giraffe 9 / bear 1. ( 7 ) Gaur / Yak / Cape Buffalo / Water Buffalo / Bison vs brown bear - Wild Bovine 6 / bear 4. ( 8 ) Polar bear vs brown bear - polar 7 / brown 3. *Edit and add: The big cats have it down pat how to ambush and kill large bovine. However, historically, in face-to-face combat, bears have a much better track record against large bull bovines. In the old bull and bear fights of Mexico and California, the grizzly ( although not the favorite ) was more often the victor. It was not until the "Gringos" took over California and the "games" that bulls began to be more often victorious. This because they did not go out and capture the big boar grizzlies. Instead, they often used subadult bears, she-bears, and even black bears in their bull and bear fights. From this point the standard of the games lowered still further until the bear was fighting donkeys and even rats. -Thus according to the book; "California Grizzly" by Tracy I. Storer and Lloyd P. Tevis Jr. *So, I would give the bear above a 50 percent chance against any domesticated bull bovine. However, I have rethought the wild bovines and, in complete honesty, I think that a half-ton brown bear would probably defeat the bull roughly 4 out of 10. There is a lot of power backing a wild bull bovine weighing close to and in some cases better than a full-ton. For a lion or a tiger in a face-off against one of the huge wild bull bovine: 3 out of 10. ( IMO )
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Post by brobear on Nov 3, 2020 9:39:38 GMT -5
I'm going to reboot my face-off list for ( what is it now ) about the 29th time ( including those I hold at 50% )... more detail. ( 1,000 pound brown bear ). ( IMO ):
1- any elephant species - elephant 100% 2- any rhinoceros species with the exception of Sumatran rhinoceros - rhino 100% 3- Sumatran rhinoceros - bear 7 / rhino 3. 4- Elephant seal - seal 100% 5- Walrus - walrus 8 / bear 2. 6- Giraffe - giraffe 9 / bear 1. 7- Gaur / Yak / Cape Buffalo / Water Buffalo / Bison - bull bovine 6 / bear 4. 8- *Any domesticated bull bovine - bear better than 50%. 9- Polar bear - Polar bear 6 / brown bear 4. 10- 1,000+ pound crocodile ( on land )- 50% 11- Huge anaconda/python - 50% 12- Moose - 50% 13- Stallion horse ( king of a herd )- 50%
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 3, 2020 9:51:30 GMT -5
Please tell me you just forgot to include the Spanish fighting bull?
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Post by theundertaker45 on Nov 3, 2020 9:59:56 GMT -5
This would be my list:
- Elephants (all extant subspecies) - Rhinos (all extant subspecies except the Sumatran Rhino) - Hippopotamus - Elephant Seals - Pacific Walrus - Polar Bear (also a large one)
I am personally rating a 1000lbs brown bear's chances against the large domestic/wild bovids, the giraffe and the Atlantic walrus fairly positive.
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Post by brobear on Nov 3, 2020 10:06:12 GMT -5
Please tell me you just forgot to include the Spanish fighting bull? I don't know why you think the Spanish fighting bull will win, when the bear nearly always defeated him in the Californian and mexican arena.
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Post by brobear on Nov 3, 2020 10:12:22 GMT -5
This would be my list: - Elephants (all extant subspecies) - Rhinos (all extant subspecies except the Sumatran Rhino) - Hippopotamus - Elephant Seals - Pacific Walrus - Polar Bear (also a large one)I am personally rating a 1000lbs brown bear's chances against the large domestic/wild bovids, the giraffe and the Atlantic walrus fairly positive. Yeah; I'm totally unsure about the big wild bovine like the bison and the others. They are incredibly powerful. Since I'm unsure, I rank then just one out of ten above the bear so as not to sound biased. Honestly, in a face-off I don't know. Giraffe - I cannot even picture this in any conceivable realistic picture in my mind. Walrus; since the polar bear seems to avoid the big bulls ( I am assuming ) I figure the brown bear might have problems with this guy. Of all those you mentioned, with the exception of domesticated bull bovine, I'm completely unsure.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 3, 2020 10:19:24 GMT -5
Please tell me you just forgot to include the Spanish fighting bull? I don't know why you think the Spanish fighting bull will win, when the bear nearly always defeated him in the Californian and mexican arena. I have read the book "California grizzly", i have the book. Most sources say the bear won more, but just barely. Less sources say the bull won more. I dont know where you got that the bear "nearly always won", that's not what i read. Those were the most savage and blood matches i have read out of any animal fights. Broken eye sockets, broken limbs, bulls tongue ripped out. I have posted all those accounts in the "bull fighter" thread. It was very very close trust me, some bears were destroyed. It looks like the bear won more, but just barely. All in all, i would think its 50%. These Spanish fighting bulls are are a beast.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Nov 3, 2020 10:19:32 GMT -5
brobear Well, I agree with you that the wild bovines are exceptionally powerful and tough to beat, however, a 1000lbs brown bear also is no pushover; in my opinion he would fare quite well against the wild bovids at this size. Regarding the giraffe, it's clear that a 1000lbs brown bear can't attempt an acrobatic assault on the giraffe's neck like big cats try to apply most of the time, however, the bear would be very durable/tenacious and could quite handily bring the giraffe down by latching onto its legs and breaking them. Regarding the walrus, that's why I split them into Atlantic/Pacific walrus; Pacific bulls are able to attain the size of a northern elephant seal at times whereas the Atlantic bulls are quite a bit smaller. In my opinion an Atlantic bull walrus can be brought down more often than not.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 3, 2020 10:26:11 GMT -5
A WITNESS DESCRIBED HOW A BEAR WITH ITS ENTRAILS DRAGGING, RIPPED OFF THE TONGUE, THE EARS, AND MUCH OF THE LOWER JAW OF THE BULL.
ONCE A BEAR GOT A HOLD OF THE BULLS TONGUE, THE BATTLE SOON ENDED IN COMPLETE TRIUMPH FOR THE GRIZZLY.
OUR TABULATIONS OF FIGHT RESULTS DURING THE SPANISH PERIOD SHOW THAT THE GRIZZLY MOST OFTEN TRIUMPHED. (OTHER PEOPLE THOUGHT THE BULL WOULD TRIUMPH).
FLINT OBSERVED A CONTEST IN WHICH FOURTEEN BULLS WERE CONQUERED BY FIVE BEARS.
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Post by brobear on Nov 3, 2020 10:27:53 GMT -5
I don't know why you think the Spanish fighting bull will win, when the bear nearly always defeated him in the Californian and mexican arena. I have read the book "California grizzly", i have the book. Most sources say the bear won more, but just barely. Less sources say the bull won more. I dont know where you got that the bear "nearly always won", that's not what i read. Those were the most savage and blood matches i have read out of any animal fights. Broken eye sockets, broken limbs, bulls tongue ripped out. I have posted all those accounts in the "bull fighter" thread. It was very very close trust me, some bears were destroyed. It looks like the bear won more, but just barely. All in all, i would think its 50%. These Spanish fighting bulls are are a beast.The bear defeated the bull way more often in California - until the gringos took over the show. Also, the bear nearly always defeated the bulls in Rome. As for Mexico and California; those people loved their bulls but had no love for bears. So these tales could not be biased for the bear. Spanish fight bulls are a beast. I agree - and the grizzly?
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 3, 2020 10:32:00 GMT -5
SPANISH FIGHTING BULL. MATURE MALES WEIGHT FROM 1000 to 1550 LBS, MADE A GREAT WEIGHT PARITY FACE OFF WITH A MATURE MALE CALIFORNIA GRIZZLY. ALSO, THIS BULL IS VERY AGGRESSIVE WHEN IT HAS NO ESCAPE. THE HORNS ARE STRAIGHT TO CAUSE MORE DAMAGE.
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Post by brobear on Nov 3, 2020 10:32:16 GMT -5
brobear Well, I agree with you that the wild bovines are exceptionally powerful and tough to beat, however, a 1000lbs brown bear also is no pushover; in my opinion he would fare quite well against the wild bovids at this size. Regarding the giraffe, it's clear that a 1000lbs brown bear can't attempt an acrobatic assault on the giraffe's neck like big cats try to apply most of the time, however, the bear would be very durable/tenacious and could quite handily bring the giraffe down by latching onto its legs and breaking them. Regarding the walrus, that's why I split them into Atlantic/Pacific walrus; Pacific bulls are able to attain the size of a northern elephant seal at times whereas the Atlantic bulls are quite a bit smaller. In my opinion an Atlantic bull walrus can be brought down more often than not. You might easily sway my thoughts considering 1,000 pound brown bear vs the "big boy" wild bovines. Giraffe; considering the bear's intelligence, he just might break the tall beast's leg. 50/50. I was clueless about there being a smaller walrus.
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