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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 4, 2019 13:39:32 GMT -5
Right now am very busy so i cant think straight, but later i will rethink the water buffalo and gaur. The thing is grizzlies beat fighting spanish bulls most times in California, and those 2 bovines are very similar, so i might take them off the list at same weight. Later i will see.
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Post by brobear on Mar 4, 2019 13:56:18 GMT -5
Right now am very busy so i cant think straight, but later i will rethink the water buffalo and gaur. The thing is grizzlies beat fighting spanish bulls most times in California, and those 2 bovines are very similar, so i might take them off the list at same weight. Later i will see. African buffalo, Asian buffalo, wild yak, gaur, or bison... A huge grizzly such as those of the prairie of the Old West ( pre-dating the cowboys )... maybe ranging from 900 to 1200 pounds, should be able to kill one with no more trouble than another. All are heavier and stronger than the bear. But these bears had experience in fighting and killing feral cattle and bison. It seems obvious that an experienced bear develops a method. I really don't believe that any bull bovine had a head and neck larger or stronger than that of a bison. ( just my thoughts ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 4, 2019 14:23:25 GMT -5
Brobear: this list should be made considering that the grizzly has the most experience killing bull bison or fighting spanish bulls in the California grizzly case. And of course, a 1500 lb bear.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 15:50:43 GMT -5
Yes brobear will do it right now. Well, bison were introduced in California in 1924, so they never really meet the California grizzly. The grizzlies did meet the Texas longhorns though. But if you want i can do a hypothesis on California grizzly vs bull bison later. Of course. I would you to read your hypothesis please.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 4, 2019 17:16:24 GMT -5
Ok i will do a pit fight, just the way i like it. 1500 lb California grizzly just caught from the wild. On the other corner we have a 1600 lb american bull bison. The bison charges at the bear first, the bear completely evades that charge, then a second charge catches the bear on the side with the horns, not much damage though, that pissed off the bear. Now a third charge of the bison, this time the bear catches the bison by the horns, and gives the bison a very hard swipe on his skull, the bison is hurt, the bear wont let go, he swipes again at the skull and really hurts the bison, now the bison is barely moving, last but not least, the bear snatches the bison’s tongue off, the bison bleeds to death. The end.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 22:45:17 GMT -5
Thats a good hypothesis, now lets see brobar write one. I will write one later.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 6, 2019 0:11:12 GMT -5
Here is my revised list of all the land based animals in the world, including reptiles, that will defeat a 1500 lb bear in 50% or more of the times.
elephant-100%. rhino-100%. hippo-100% giraffe-80%. croc on water-100%, land 50%. Indian gaur-80%. Belgium blue bull-60% American bison-50%. Water buffalo-50%. Wild yak-50%. Alaskan Yukon moose-50%.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 6, 2019 0:34:17 GMT -5
I agree kodiak except I think a kodiak would win on land more than 50% of the time.
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Post by tom on Mar 6, 2019 0:46:42 GMT -5
What about an Alaskan Yukon Moose.
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Post by brobear on Mar 6, 2019 2:17:24 GMT -5
What about an Alaskan Yukon Moose. There is a story told in more than one of the books I read concerning the historical grizzly of a bloody fight that did not end quickly. A Kodiak bear fought a bull moose. According to this tale ( tall tale or truth we'll never know ) after fighting deep into the night, the moose finally kills the bear. Fact: grizzlies ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water where it cannot use its hoofs. In a face-off between a big boar grizzly and a big bull moose; I would give this one a 50-50.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 6, 2019 5:21:23 GMT -5
I agree kodiak except I think a kodiak would win on land more than 50% of the time. You mean a croc? They are too large, especially the saltwater crocs. But i think on land anything can happen.
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Post by tom on Mar 6, 2019 9:00:37 GMT -5
Kodiak, I think you should include the Alaskan Yukon Moose to your revised list. 50/50 outcome with a big Bull Moose.
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 6, 2019 9:06:05 GMT -5
Kodiak, I think you should include the Alaskan Yukon Moose to your revised list. 50/50 outcome with a big Bull Moose. I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes Tom i agree and i will added to my list.
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Post by brobear on Mar 6, 2019 10:05:42 GMT -5
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes they do; out in the open. But a big grizzly can and does sometimes ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water, such as a pond or a river. Both are excellent swimmers, but in water the bear is a better fighter. If a big bull moose were to charge a grizzly, would the bear retreat or fight? Probably more often flee.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 6, 2019 13:19:14 GMT -5
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes they do; out in the open. But a big grizzly can and does sometimes ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water, such as a pond or a river. Both are excellent swimmers, but in water the bear is a better fighter. If a big bull moose were to charge a grizzly, would the bear retreat or fight? Probably more often flee. Guys: remember we are talking about a face to face fight, not ambushing or avoiding fights. In a face to face fight, my opinion is that its 50%. I have the bull moose on my list. As of now, i have only 11 land animals on my list that can defeat a 1500 lb bear in 50% or more head on fights. There are millions of animals in the world.
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Post by brobear on Mar 6, 2019 13:27:46 GMT -5
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes they do; out in the open. But a big grizzly can and does sometimes ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water, such as a pond or a river. Both are excellent swimmers, but in water the bear is a better fighter. If a big bull moose were to charge a grizzly, would the bear retreat or fight? Probably more often flee. Guys: remember we are talking about a face to face fight, not ambushing or avoiding fights. In a face to face fight, my opinion is that its 50%. I have the bull moose on my list. As of now, i have only 11 land animals on my list that can defeat a 1500 lb bear in 50% or more head on fights. There are millions of animals in the world. I took liberties with the ( Jurassic Park ) raptor, but it would be wise to stick with land-based mammals ( including shore mammals ). Crocodile vs bear is questionable - mostly a wild guess. But then, if we include reptiles, there are black mambas, king cobras, bushmasters, etc.
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Post by tom on Mar 6, 2019 13:56:02 GMT -5
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes they do; out in the open. But a big grizzly can and does sometimes ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water, such as a pond or a river. Both are excellent swimmers, but in water the bear is a better fighter. If a big bull moose were to charge a grizzly, would the bear retreat or fight? Probably more often flee. I'm thinking that a Grizzly confrontation (even by ambush) on a mature Alaskan Bull moose is very rare. In fact i just can't picture this happening period. A Cow or calf, different story IMO. There certainly aren't any videos out there that I've found, not sure of eyewitness accounts, just cows or calves which would be the Grizzlies first choice anyway.
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Post by tom on Mar 6, 2019 14:03:47 GMT -5
I personally think the two respect each other and avoid confrontations. Yes they do; out in the open. But a big grizzly can and does sometimes ambush and kill adult moose of both sexes. Also, a grizzly will chase a moose into water, such as a pond or a river. Both are excellent swimmers, but in water the bear is a better fighter. If a big bull moose were to charge a grizzly, would the bear retreat or fight? Probably more often flee. Guys: remember we are talking about a face to face fight, not ambushing or avoiding fights. In a face to face fight, my opinion is that its 50%. I have the bull moose on my list. As of now, i have only 11 land animals on my list that can defeat a 1500 lb bear in 50% or more head on fights. There are millions of animals in the world. As you stated, this list would all be pure speculation and opinion based on how a face to face would turn out.
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Post by brobear on Mar 6, 2019 15:10:54 GMT -5
www.researchgate.net/publication...ral_Alaska Radio-collared grizzly bears (Ursus arctos) were sighted daily for approximately 1-month periods during spring, summer, and fall to estimate predation rates. Predation rates on adult moose (Alces alces) were highest in spring, lowest in summer, and intermediate in fall. The highest kill rates were by male grizzlies killing cow moose during the calving period. We estimated that each adult male grizzly killed 3.3–3.9 adult moose annually, each female without cub(s) killed 0.6–0.8 adult moose and 0.9–1.0 adult caribou (Rangifer tarandus) annually, and each adult bear killed at least 5.4 moose calves annually. Grizzly predation rates on calves and grizzly density were independent of moose density and are probably more related to area-specific factors, e.g., availability of alternative foods. An important implication of our results is that managers should not allow moose densities to decline to low levels, because grizzlies can have a greater relative impact on low- than on high-density moose populations and because grizzly predation can be difficult to reduce. Grizzly bears were primarily predators, rather than scavengers, in this area of low prey availability (11 moose/grizzly bear); bears killed four times more animal biomass than they scavenged. Predation on moose and caribou by radio-collared grizzly bears in east central Alaska (PDF Download Available). Available from: www.researchgate.net/publication/238015031_Predation_on_moose_and_caribou_by_radio-collared_grizzly_bears_in_east_central_Alaska [accessed Jan 17 2018].
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Post by brobear on Mar 6, 2019 15:19:32 GMT -5
Here is a link to video, where adult male moose has been killed by a brown bear in Russian Karelia 2015. Video is filmed near the summer cottage of a finnish man, who spends holidays there. He went to see the carcass with his neighbour who is old hunter living there, so experienced woodsman. In video you can see the area messed up in fight of bear and moose. That carcass is about 1,5 months old (estimation) and tracks showed, that there had been visited 2 adult bears and 2 cubs eating. Man is saying, that he won´t go closer because smell is hideous. Woman which can be heard is saying, that bear feces in many places nearby. Just if you happen to have interest to see this kind of cases. Text and talking in finnish, so I think, that most people here won´t understand yle.fi/uutiset/3-8241201Ps. This link to site giving some information about bears (also about wolf, wolverine and lynx) in Finland in english. Site is maintained and supervised by officials and wildlife experts, so information is valid. www.largecarnivores.fi/species/br...viour.html By Shadow.
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