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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 2, 2021 14:32:36 GMT -5
The Yellowstone grizzly has around an 80 lb weight advantage, its around 20% larger than the African lion. Its an advantage but not decisive in my opinion. Also, IMO, the lion is a much better face to face fighter than the tiger. The bear still holds all the morphological advantages over a lion that it holds over a tiger. The African king has the mane. The Yellowstone grizzly wins 6/10 times.
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Post by brobear on Jun 2, 2021 14:49:21 GMT -5
Lift an 80 pound sack of horse feed or an 80 pound child. Perhaps not a decisive game-changer, but a pretty-good advantage nevertheless. I would say Yellowstone grizzly 8 out of 10.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 5, 2021 18:00:33 GMT -5
The bear takes the lion 6 or 7 out of ten times. Lions are bolder and have more stamina than tiger so i think that lion is better against bear than tiger against bear. Lion are more robust also and have good mane for neck protection.
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Post by brobear on Jun 5, 2021 18:09:32 GMT -5
The bear takes the lion 6 or 7 out of ten times. Lions are bolder and have more stamina than tiger so i think that lion is better against bear than tiger against bear. Lion are more robust also and have good mane for neck protection. Lions are bolder - more likely to go head-to-head where the grizzly has the advantage. The tiger is generally sneakier and will attempt to attack from one side. More stamina? Lion are more robust ( than tiger )... debatable. I think not.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 5, 2021 18:23:41 GMT -5
The bear takes the lion 6 or 7 out of ten times. Lions are bolder and have more stamina than tiger so i think that lion is better against bear than tiger against bear. Lion are more robust also and have good mane for neck protection. Lions are bolder - more likely to go head-to-head where the grizzly has the advantage. The tiger is generally sneakier and will attempt to attack from one side. More stamina? Lion are more robust ( than tiger )... debatable. I think not. Here is a table showing that lions have more stamina than tigers.
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Post by brobear on Jun 5, 2021 18:33:15 GMT -5
Please post pictures at full-size:
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Post by brobear on Jun 5, 2021 18:36:16 GMT -5
Amur tigers and Bengal tigers are bigger than African lions. Most of the lion fans ( other than the juvenile fanboys ) have stopped arguing against this absolute confirmed fact.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 5, 2021 18:39:30 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jun 14, 2021 5:02:31 GMT -5
In a weight-parity contest, I would give them each a 50/50. However, with both lions and tigers, if they all lived in one vast fantasy landmass, the brown bear would generally have a substantial weight advantage.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 15, 2021 14:35:26 GMT -5
Against tiger is will say 7 out of 10 but against lion i would say its is going to be 6 out of 10 because lions have better stamina than tiger, a good mane for protection and are much bolder.
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Post by brobear on Jun 18, 2021 11:00:39 GMT -5
In a weight-parity contest, I would give them each a 50/50. However, with both lions and tigers, if they all lived in one vast fantasy landmass, the brown bear would generally have a substantial weight advantage. That 50/50 estimation is for a weight-parity face-off. Such as, a 450 pound Yellowstone grizzly vs a 450 pound African lion. I would give them each a 50/50 chance of a victory in this very unfair fight. How is a weight-parity fight unfair? The grizzly is a good foot or more shorter in head-and-body length, and shorter in bipedal height as well. In other words, because he has a greater girth, which provides greater weight and strength, he must be down-sized to be comparable in weight to the lighter built big cat. However, Mother Nature is rarely fair. In reality, the average Yellowstone grizzly has a weight advantage over a typical African lion of nearly 100 pounds. Average fully grown male Yellowstone grizzly (9 years+) - 470 pounds. Average fully grown female Yellowstone grizzly (7 years+) - 304.08 pounds. Average Panthera leo melanochaita (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all the former subspecies inhabiting East/South Africa) - 388.3 pounds for males and 291.1 pounds for females (n=264 and n=246) *Also consider that the famous Yellowstone National Park is a very harsh place for grizzlies. Those of Montana and in parts of Alaska are larger bears. *I would give a typical Yellowstone grizzly a 7 or an 8 out of 10 against a typical African lion.
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Post by brobear on Jun 18, 2021 11:09:45 GMT -5
A quote from Reply #5: "The above is quoted by Teddy Roosevelt in his early years, before traveling abroad. After experiencing lion hunting in Africa, TR made this statement: Teddy Roosevelt once stated that a stripped carcass of a grizzly bear is far more robust than the same of a lion. The bear is just more powerfully and larger built."
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Post by tom on Jun 18, 2021 12:11:14 GMT -5
brobear says:
You may be right, however just as in humans, animals are individuals with some being more aggressive than others and are born fighters. If a more passive Grizzly met an overly aggressive male lion (thinking Mr. T of the famous mapogos) the grizzly may not have the stomach for such a fight. Same could be said for a more aggressive Grizzly and a more passive Lion. IMO If both were forced to fight (even at weight parity) I still think the Grizzly would get the best of the Lion and it may not even come down to a fight to the death before one retreats.
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Post by brobear on Jun 18, 2021 12:26:55 GMT -5
brobear says: You may be right, however just as in humans, animals are individuals with some being more aggressive than others and are born fighters. If a more passive Grizzly met an overly aggressive male lion (thinking Mr. T of the famous mapogos) the grizzly may not have the stomach for such a fight. Same could be said for a more aggressive Grizzly and a more passive Lion. IMO If both were forced to fight (even at weight parity) I still think the Grizzly would get the best of the Lion and it may not even come down to a fight to the death before one retreats. This is true. Each animal is an individual. I give them a 50/50 ( just my guess ) due to the fact that, even though they weigh the same, its like a fight between a 6-foot tall man and a 5-foot tall man. So, regardless of the fact that they weight the same, ( IMO ), this is a grizzly fighting against a bigger lion.
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Post by tom on Jun 24, 2021 12:46:55 GMT -5
In your opinion brobear how much of a weight advantage does the Bear need to be victorious from 50/50 to 80/20.
I'm going to take a stab at 150 lbs weight advantage. 450 lb Lion against a 600 lb Grizzly. Of course this is all hypothetical.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 24, 2021 17:12:16 GMT -5
In your opinion brobear how much of a weight advantage does the Bear need to be victorious from 50/50 to 80/20. I'm going to take a stab at 150 lbs weight advantage. 450 lb Lion against a 600 lb Grizzly. Of course this is all hypothetical. A male brown bear will be victorious 7-8/10 of the time with a 150 pound weight advantage in my opinion. At weight parity, it will be between 6-7/10. Bears that weight between two to three times the weight of a tiger or lion will have a 10/10 victory. What about your opinion tom ?
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Post by brobear on Jun 25, 2021 10:04:23 GMT -5
In your opinion brobear how much of a weight advantage does the Bear need to be victorious from 50/50 to 80/20. I'm going to take a stab at 150 lbs weight advantage. 450 lb Lion against a 600 lb Grizzly. Of course this is all hypothetical. Yes; this is likely about right. A 600-pound grizzly facing a 450-pound lion, each is likely ( roughly ) at head-and-body length parity or bipedal height parity either of which can be considered ( IMO ) as true size-parity. A fair fight. This gives each species all of his natural advantages including the advantage of girth/weight.
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Post by tom on Jun 25, 2021 10:35:57 GMT -5
At weight parity 50/50 I'm with with brobear on that. Maybe .....60/40 for the bear at weight parity. At 2-3 times heavier than a Big Cat a Bear (likely a large Kodiak or Coastal Bear) it would be carnage. The Lion would probably not even attempt such a suicidal endeavor. If forced to fight like i said CARNAGE !
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Post by brobear on Jun 25, 2021 10:45:38 GMT -5
Quote: "Bears that weight between two to three times the weight of a tiger or lion will have a 10/10 victory." ( IMO ) a bear with a weight advantage of 200 pounds ( 90kg ) or more will win roughly 19 out of 20. There is always that chance of a fluke ( the accidental unlikely ).
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Post by brobear on Jun 25, 2021 11:29:25 GMT -5
FYI - I seem to remember posting this recently, but where? Anyway, when Polar and I first started the 'Domain of the Bears', in our face-off section, we had posted every historical lion vs bear and tiger vs bear fight known to online blog-sites. Nearly all were taken from old newspapers from the 1800s and early-to-mid 1900s. In the vast majority of these tales, the bear ( especially the brown bear ) was most often the victor. Well, while posting on another blog-site, a former member of the Domain and I had a heated disagreement over a particular face-off; Parnell the African lion vs Ramadam (various spellings ) the California grizzly. This was the most famous big cat vs bear fight in American history. This fight is mentioned in the book, 'California Grizzly' and the same version is also posted ( original newspaper clipping ) on the wall of the California state capital building. In this version, the bear quickly vanquished the lion. However, newspapers all over the country were each printing their own versions of the famous fight. Well, that one particular member argued for a different news paper version which claimed the fight to have ended in a draw. My decision was, a fight cannot have multiple endings. This proved to me just how unreliable those old newspapers are. So, I deleted all fights that took place in captivity except for anything in recent news.
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