I Still Don't Know....

[smedz]

In this thread, you can list things, including bear related things, that you thought you would already know, but you still don't know. I'll start. Yes, this was inspired by Jeff Foxworthy

I still don't know why people including experts still say Amur Tigers are the biggest of all tigers even though that's not the case in the present. 

I still don't know why smoking cigarettes, cigars, etc isn't illegal at this point. 

I still don't know why a couple of certain experts still believe the symbiotic relationship between the honey guide and the honey badger is an actual thing even though it's been debunked. 

I still don't know why those who run wikipedia allow just about anyone to edit a page instead of only the experts. 

[tom]

May 30, 2019 11:01:33 GMT -5 smedz said:

In this thread, you can list things, including bear related things, that you thought you would already know, but you still don't know. I'll start. Yes, this was inspired by Jeff Foxworthy

I still don't know why people including experts still say Amur Tigers are the biggest of all tigers even though that's not the case in the present. 

I thought the Amur Tigers (Siberian) were the largest of not only Tigers but all big Cats?  Which tiger is larger?  When you say present what exactly does that mean? The Siberian Tiger used to be larger and now it is not?

I still don't know why smoking cigarettes, cigars, etc isn't illegal at this point. 

We'll first of all that would put a good number out of work. Mind you in the short run it would force people to quit immediately, however, because of the addiction to tobacco or nicotine can be so strong it would bring a lot of potential health issues to the front in a big hurry. Overwhelmingly to be frank. Going cold turkey for some could cause serious issues. It could also potentially bring a black market to the cigarette industry much like the bootlegging in the early 20th century with alcohol. 

I still don't know why a couple of certain experts still believe the symbiotic relationship between the honey guide and the honey badger is an actual thing even though it's been debunked. 

What is a Honey guide?

I still don't know why those who run wikipedia allow just about anyone to edit a page instead of only the experts. 

That is a very good question and one i didn't realize exists. The problem with that philosophy is it makes Wikipedia that much less reliable for information. Take it with a grain of salt kind of.

[smedz]

The Bengal Tiger is the bigger cat. When I say present, I'm talking about now, in the past, the Amur Tiger probably was the biggest of all cats due to bergmann's law, but sue to all the hunting, there was a genetic bottleneck in the population, now you would be lucky to find a 500 pound wild Amur Tiger.

A Honey Guide is a type of songbird that lives in Africa that either loves honey or bee larvae. People used to think that the song of a honey guide would guide a honey badger to a bee hive, the badger would proceed to bust the hive open, and both would have a meal. However, this was debunked because honey badgers have poor eyesight and hearing I think, they're mostly nocturnal while honey guides are diurnal. Scientists have been active in Africa for hundreds of years, and not one has ever observed this behavior.

[tom]

I still don't know or understand why these animal fight debates become so personal. They get to the point that it becomes an attack on someone. I understand why someone sticks up for their favorite animal and everything but many of these go waaay... beyond that. The Tiger vs Grizzly topic seems to be one of the worse. Very few who debate this topic come away with a clear winner and they turn heated and either the thread gets locked or individuals get banned.

[tom]

May 30, 2019 15:16:35 GMT -5 smedz said:

The Bengal Tiger is the bigger cat. When I say present, I'm talking about now, in the past, the Amur Tiger probably was the biggest of all cats due to bergmann's law, but sue to all the hunting, there was a genetic bottleneck in the population, now you would be lucky to find a 500 pound wild Amur Tiger.

yes and 500 wild Amur Tigers are about all that's left in the world, sadly....

[Deleted]

May 30, 2019 15:19:27 GMT -5 tom said:

I still don't know or understand why these animal fight debates become so personal. They get to the point that it becomes an attack on someone. I understand why someone sticks up for their favorite animal and everything but many of these go waaay... beyond that. The Tiger vs Grizzly topic seems to be one of the worse. Very few who debate this topic come away with a clear winner and they turn heated and either the thread gets locked or individuals get banned.

Personally I have nothing against mature debates even if there is strong disagreement and both parties remain mature and are willing to learn from each other. The brown bear versus tiger debates in general are the second most popular topics after the tiger versus lion debates. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with frank comments towards absurd ideas (e.g. polar bear being able to kill elephant, rhino, hippo, and even ten lions in one shot  as that only exist in fantasy plus stating a polar bear is able to displace five barbary or african lions is very different from saying a polar bear can kill five Barbary/african lions) as long as both parties can remain civil and are willing to learn from each others mistakes but should a debate go around in circles etc - that is the time to agree to disagree and move on and yet remain firm on your opinion. I have retired from bear versus big cat debates for that matter only participating in discussions and commenting on accounts. However, my opinion is already decided: male polar bear beats smilodon, american lion, ngandong tiger, cave lion, other tigers, other lions one on one and brown bear beats tiger and lion at parity (7/10). Most black bears will be beaten by a tiger or lion in a fight to death as they are outweighed on average. However, at parity, the black bear still wins 6/10 due to its more powerful forearms. 
Not trying to start a debate - just stating my final stance.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand why the polar bear's fur is translucent rather than white.
I still don't understand why the polar bear's fur is not blue like the arctic fox with is occasionally called blue fox and can have bluish white fur.
I still don't know why the polar bear doesn't have a summer coat like the arctic fox.
I still don't know why the brown bear doesn't have a white winter coat like some of the weasels and birds.
I still don't know why many do not acknowledge the kemorde bear is the true white bear.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand why some debates never end.
I still don't understand why some people are winners and some are losers.

[tom]

May 30, 2019 18:57:24 GMT -5 @londonbluebear said:

May 30, 2019 15:19:27 GMT -5 tom said:

I still don't know or understand why these animal fight debates become so personal. They get to the point that it becomes an attack on someone. I understand why someone sticks up for their favorite animal and everything but many of these go waaay... beyond that. The Tiger vs Grizzly topic seems to be one of the worse. Very few who debate this topic come away with a clear winner and they turn heated and either the thread gets locked or individuals get banned.

Personally I have nothing against mature debates even if there is strong disagreement and both parties remain mature and are willing to learn from each other. The brown bear versus tiger debates in general are the second most popular topics after the tiger versus lion debates. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with frank comments towards absurd ideas (e.g. polar bear being able to kill elephant, rhino, hippo, and even ten lions in one shot  as that only exist in fantasy plus stating a polar bear is able to displace five barbary or african lions is very different from saying a polar bear can kill five Barbary/african lions) as long as both parties can remain civil and are willing to learn from each others mistakes but should a debate go around in circles etc - that is the time to agree to disagree and move on and yet remain firm on your opinion. I have retired from bear versus big cat debates for that matter only participating in discussions and commenting on accounts. However, my opinion is already decided: male polar bear beats smilodon, american lion, ngandong tiger, cave lion, other tigers, other lions one on one and brown bear beats tiger and lion at parity (7/10). Most black bears will be beaten by a tiger or lion in a fight to death as they are outweighed on average. However, at parity, the black bear still wins 6/10 due to its more powerful forearms. 
Not trying to start a debate - just stating my final stance.

You make a great point blue. If something can't be proven and it boils down to opinions, then there's nothing wrong with ending the whole conversation with the statement "We'll just have to agree to disagree"

[tom]

May 31, 2019 9:03:07 GMT -5 @londonbluebear said:

I still don't understand why some debates never end.Because neither party will respect others opinions or except the facts as presented.

I still don't understand why some people are winners and some are losers. Honestly, there are no REAL winners or losers in these debates. The only losers are the ones that degrade the whole thing by making it a personal attack because they can't bring someone to agree with them.

[Deleted]

In my second comment about winners and losers, I wasn't talking about animal debates. I was talking about real everyday life. In others words I don't understand why some people are natural winners and some choose to be loosers. I also don't understand why some people get everything easy and some have to fight for everything in life.

[Deleted]

Generally this with a tougher life are more aggressive (e.g. The barren ground grizzly which is extremely aggressive as it is hard for it to get food in its area and the interior grizzly which its plasticene ancestor lives among many predators.

[OldGreenGrolar]

I still don't know why most blue birds (e.g. blue jay) does not have natural blue pigments but have hijacked the rainbow to reflect blue light from its feathers.

[OldGreenGrolar]

I still don't know why the male mountain bluebird is more brightly coloured and has a different plumage style for its female counterpart just like the dragonflies.

[OldGreenGrolar]

I still don't know why both the glacier bears and Tibetan blue bears' fur do not reflect blue light the way a blue jay's feathers does.

[brobear]

I still don't know why people including experts still say Amur Tigers are the biggest of all tigers even though that's not the case in the present.
---- The idea that the Bengal tiger is a bigger cat than an Amur tigers was debunked on Wildfact. Bengals tend to be heavier and more compact. Amur tigers longer / taller. In a zoo environment where both big cats are fed the same, the Amurs are bigger in all aspects.
In the R.F.E. the Amur tiger walks far greater distance in his hunts - a much larger domain. Also, as Peter once pointed out, where there are 800 pound grizzlies and 700 pound wild boars, speed and agility is more essential than body mass.

[brobear]

I still don't know why smoking cigarettes, cigars, etc isn't illegal at this point.

Here in America we have something referred to as "Freedom of Choice". If we make everything unhealthy against the law we would be putting tens of thousands of angry people out of work. Research how well it worked out during the 20's and 30's when the government made the sale of drinking alcohol illegal.

[brobear]

I still don't know why those who run wikipedia allow just about anyone to edit a page instead of only the experts.

Never rely on Wiki to show proof of anything.

[brobear]

May 30, 2019 15:19:27 GMT -5 tom said:

I still don't know or understand why these animal fight debates become so personal. They get to the point that it becomes an attack on someone. I understand why someone sticks up for their favorite animal and everything but many of these go waaay... beyond that. The Tiger vs Grizzly topic seems to be one of the worse. Very few who debate this topic come away with a clear winner and they turn heated and either the thread gets locked or individuals get banned.

Like politics   A fan-boy will continue to argue a point long after he has been proven wrong. Human nature I suppose - we don't like to be proven wrong! 
I have yet to see where even one bear fan has ever created what he knows to be fake history ( such as animal fight events ) or fake science. But there has been many lion fan-boys and tiger fan-boys who have filled the internet with their lies. 
The Tiger vs Grizzly topic seems to be one of the worse - with the exception of Lion vs Tiger. In those heated fights, you see both sides armed with fake-facts.
 
The difference between being a mature animal enthusiast and being a juvenile fan-boy is the ability to swallow your pride and man-up to the truth.
 

[tom]

There's a couple of good Mark Twain quotes that go like this.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain