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Post by brobear on Apr 5, 2019 5:29:28 GMT -5
Result of your conversion: 240 centimeters is equal to 94.49 inches = 7 feet 10 inches in head-and-body length. Grizzlies of Wyoming and Montana can be eight feet in head-and-body length / bipedal height and weigh less than 800 pounds. Your thoughts.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 5, 2019 5:47:04 GMT -5
Result of your conversion: 240 centimeters is equal to 94.49 inches = 7 feet 10 inches in head-and-body length. Grizzlies of Wyoming and Montana can be eight feet in head-and-body length / bipedal height and weigh less than 800 pounds. Your thoughts. Looks like we have size parity there. Basically same head and body length.
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Post by brobear on Apr 5, 2019 5:51:57 GMT -5
Result of your conversion: 240 centimeters is equal to 94.49 inches = 7 feet 10 inches in head-and-body length. Grizzlies of Wyoming and Montana can be eight feet in head-and-body length / bipedal height and weigh less than 800 pounds. Your thoughts. Looks like we have size parity there. Basically same head and body length. Yes, but at head-and-body length parity - the tiger should not weigh as much as the grizzly
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 5, 2019 6:10:08 GMT -5
Looks like we have size parity there. Basically same head and body length. Yes, but at head-and-body length parity - the tiger should not weigh as much as the grizzly Thats a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 22:25:56 GMT -5
Polar bear can beat all bears except for a similar size kodiak.
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Post by BruteStrength on Apr 8, 2019 1:25:07 GMT -5
Well we have seen small grizzlies chasing polar bears so Im not too sure if a polar bear can beat a grizzly. But at the same time just because a polar bear retreats don't mean it will lose.
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Post by BruteStrength on Apr 8, 2019 1:27:23 GMT -5
Yes i would like to add that I don't think the kodiak will win as easy at max weight because these 2 prehistoric big cats can get big. I think it's a toss up. You nuts? #1, at max weights, a kodiak has at least 500 lb weight advantange over the largest cats, thats 50% of the fight already. #2, how many times i have to tell you that the larger a cat is, he loses his most known advantage, speed and agilty. Cats with alot of weight is not good. Kodiak bear wins 8/9 out of 10 at max weights. In my NOBLE opinion, the most dangerous cats are between 500-700 lbs. more weight than that is just a fat cat with no agility. Also, at max weights, Kodiak bear at 1500 lbs,vs the largest cat ever, The Ngandong tiger at 1000 lbs, the bear is 10 feet tall while the tiger is about 8 feet tall, a 2 foot difference.
It's not all about weight though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 2:05:05 GMT -5
I agree with you that its not all about weight but the bear has a bulkier built hence more powerful forearm to give them at least a 6 to 7 out of ten win in a fight at parity but if you don't agree, we can agree to disagree .
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Post by brobear on Apr 11, 2019 5:49:10 GMT -5
I agree with you that its not all about weight but the bear has a bulkier built hence more powerful forearm to give them at least a 6 to 7 out of ten win in a fight at parity but if you don't agree, we can agree to disagree . The greater girth of the grizzly ( Ursus arctos ) equals to a heavier skeleton and more muscle. No big cat has ever lived who can match the large brown bears in size or strength. The big cat has never existed that a Kodiak bear or a polar bear could not ( one-on-one ) displace from a carcass. This is what bears do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 6:05:41 GMT -5
I agree with you that its not all about weight but the bear has a bulkier built hence more powerful forearm to give them at least a 6 to 7 out of ten win in a fight at parity but if you don't agree, we can agree to disagree . The greater girth of the grizzly ( Ursus arctos ) equals to a heavier skeleton and more muscle. No big cat has ever lived who can match the large brown bears in size or strength. The big cat has never existed that a Kodiak bear or a polar bear could not ( one-on-one ) displace from a carcass. This is what bears do. I am totally with you on this one. A kodiak bear and polar bear are too much for any big cat one on one.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 11, 2019 6:59:33 GMT -5
This statement here is credited to brobear, he said it some time ago in this forum. But it very well worth it to put it here as a bold statement.
“Tigers will attack elephants, rhinos, and gaur, but they wont attack an adult male brown bear”
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Post by brobear on Apr 11, 2019 8:31:15 GMT -5
This statement here is credited to brobear, he said it some time ago in this forum. But it very well worth it to put it here as a bold statement.
“Tigers will attack elephants, rhinos, and gaur, but they wont attack an adult male brown bear” This used to be a popular argument by cat fan-boys; if a big cat will attack and kill a 2,000 pound buffalo, it stands to reason that he can kill a 1,000 pound bear. Sounds logical. But wait! Would a 450 pound lion ambush a 1,000 pound tiger? Would a 450 pound tiger ambush a 1,000 pound lion? The answer to both is NO. Bears are of the order Carnivora. They fight with similar weapons as the big cats; not hoofs and horns. The cat wants a meal, not a fight for his life.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 11, 2019 11:57:08 GMT -5
This statement here is credited to brobear, he said it some time ago in this forum. But it very well worth it to put it here as a bold statement.
“Tigers will attack elephants, rhinos, and gaur, but they wont attack an adult male brown bear” This used to be a popular argument by cat fan-boys; if a big cat will attack and kill a 2,000 pound buffalo, it stands to reason that he can kill a 1,000 pound bear. Sounds logical. But wait! Would a 450 pound lion ambush a 1,000 pound tiger? Would a 450 pound tiger ambush a 1,000 pound lion? The answer to both is NO. Bears are of the order Carnivora. They fight with similar weapons as the big cats; not hoofs and horns. The cat wants a meal, not a fight for his life. Believe it or not, That argument is still being used today, i see it all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 21:48:40 GMT -5
This statement here is credited to brobear, he said it some time ago in this forum. But it very well worth it to put it here as a bold statement.
“Tigers will attack elephants, rhinos, and gaur, but they wont attack an adult male brown bear” This used to be a popular argument by cat fan-boys; if a big cat will attack and kill a 2,000 pound buffalo, it stands to reason that he can kill a 1,000 pound bear. Sounds logical. But wait! Would a 450 pound lion ambush a 1,000 pound tiger? Would a 450 pound tiger ambush a 1,000 pound lion? The answer to both is NO. Bears are of the order Carnivora. They fight with similar weapons as the big cats; not hoofs and horns. The cat wants a meal, not a fight for his life. In addition a 1000 pound brown bear has flexible forearms which allows it to defend itself better from a lion or tiger than a 2000 pound buffalo. One a tiger or lion gets on a buffalo's back, the bovid can only try to shake off the pantherines whereas a brown bear can still reach a pantherine (if its lucky enough to get on its back) with these flexible but powerful forearms. In the video below, the gaur does not possess the flexible forearms to fend off the tiger which is now latching on to is throat: If the gaur were to be replaced with a 1000 pound bear, the tiger would be fended off.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 18:48:02 GMT -5
A large 1000 pound brown bear and polar bear are able to displace a pride of lions with a few males just as a 2000 pound crocordile is.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 11:01:40 GMT -5
The polar bear is the second strongest pound to pound (the brown bear being the first) out of all extant bears and their third strongest pound to pound out of all bears put together (after the cave and brown bear).
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Post by tom on May 1, 2019 11:28:13 GMT -5
This used to be a popular argument by cat fan-boys; if a big cat will attack and kill a 2,000 pound buffalo, it stands to reason that he can kill a 1,000 pound bear. Sounds logical. But wait! Would a 450 pound lion ambush a 1,000 pound tiger? Would a 450 pound tiger ambush a 1,000 pound lion? The answer to both is NO. Bears are of the order Carnivora. They fight with similar weapons as the big cats; not hoofs and horns. The cat wants a meal, not a fight for his life. Believe it or not, That argument is still being used today, i see it all the time.So to them it's simply a weight thing. If a big cat can kill one animal that weights 1000+ pounds then it can kill just about anything else that weighs equal or in excess of that weight. That is their sole reasoning? Holy cow, they need to remove the blinders. Amazing. To me it's not even worth the time trying to reason with anyone that thinks that way, simply wasting your time.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 13:01:00 GMT -5
“So to them it's simply a weight thing. If a big cat can kill one animal that weights 1000+ pounds then it can kill just about anything else that weighs equal or in excess of that weight. That is their sole reasoning? Holy cow, they need to remove the blinders. Amazing.
To me it's not even worth the time trying to reason with anyone that thinks that way, simply wasting your time.”
Yeah, what the cat boys wont tell you is that there is a big “catch” to this. Tigers kill large bovines, even 2000+ lbs, in the wild, by ambush, those animals dont even get a chance to fight until they are dead. But what has happened when tigers faced this animals locked in a cage or pit where there is no surprize ambush or no escape? As the accounts i have shown, tigers got beaten down to the dust against buffaloes, or they just refuse to fight.
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Post by tom on May 1, 2019 16:17:39 GMT -5
How often do Tigers REALLY make successful kills on large wild bovine such as Gaur? The video shows the Tiger catching the female Gaur completely by surprise as she almost completely concealed by brush while feeding. If he misses his first attempt to get a bite to the throat what would have happened?
We all agree that when it comes to ambush hunting the Tiger IMO is about as good as gets. But even against large wild bovine what really happens if his first attempt fails and he has lost the element of surprise? What are the percentages that the kill will still be successful. We talk about the Gaur as they are one of the Tigers known prey. What would happen if the Tiger had to contend with a much tougher foe IMO like the African Cape Buffalo when the element of surprise will be much more difficult due to the proximity of the herd?
What I'd like to find out is just how successful Tigers actually are in making those kills. Even with a Pride of Lions hunting Buffalo the odds are greatly in favor of the buffalo and they (Lions) are successful as a group in only one of three tries. A single Lion rarely if EVER attempts to take an adult Buffalo.
Sorry I got off topic but the only way I see a Tiger successfully preying on a Brown bear is by ambush and only if the Bear is of equal weight or smaller than the Tiger. Once the element of surprise has been lost even a Bear similar in size will be able to defend an attack from a tiger and likely the Tiger may not want to continue the fight if he's lost his edge.
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smedz
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Post by smedz on May 1, 2019 16:45:33 GMT -5
I'm in on this. Here's my list.
1. The trophy hunting of Brown Bears, Polar Bears, and American Black Bears should be banned as there is no scientific evidence to support the hunters claims.
2. Where they coexist, a big male Asiatic Black Bear can steal a carcass from a pack of dholes.
3. Bears should only be killed in self-defense.
4. A Brown Bear can and will take a carcass away from a human hunter.
5. Hunters aren't to be trusted when it comes to learning about predators in general.
6. People who kill bears for the thrill like those twerps in British Columbia are pathetic excuses for hunters.
7. Bears are one of the most powerful predators on earth.
8. The Asiatic Black Bear is more aggressive than it's American brethren.
9. Native Americans are more trustworthy around predators than other hunters in America because they have much more respect for them.
10. The Grizzly would have avoided Homotherium because of the cats social nature.
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