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Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 17:07:15 GMT -5
Tom: to be honest, i dont know exactly how succesfull a tiger is at hunting, we dont really have a chart on this. Yes, the adult specimens are rarely hunted and this is a fact for every predator in the world.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 17:15:18 GMT -5
Now, going back to what i was saying before. This here will sum it all up. Read carefully. One thing is in the wild, where tigers just creep up on all animals from behind, and a very different thing is when tigers are locked in a pit or cage and its face to face.
”the tiger and the lion are sometimes spoken of as the strongest of all animals, but this is not correct. It is only by stealth that they can get the blow which they deliver in killing a bull or a bison”
”in Assam, in a closed enclousure, a tiger and a buffalo are caused to enter from opposite ends, the fact is that the tiger knows it has no chance and its the buffalo that goes at the tiger and soon kills him”
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Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 17:33:56 GMT -5
Here is another tiger-buffalo fight.
”the buffalo followed him and jammed him against the wall with his horns, the tiger in return, gave the buffalo one scratch on the neck and on one eye” “the public began to be impatient, they stirred up the tiger with a pole, but that was of no use. He had no intention on fighting. He ran around the cage and was gored several times. This process was repeated several times always with the same result, the tiger would not fight the buffalo and the buffalo could not kill the tiger.
”THE NATIVES WERE RIGHT, THE TIGER FIGHTS UNWILLINGLY WHEN HE CANNOT SURPRISE HIS ENEMY”
books.google.com/books?id=6ckRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA224&dq=Buffalo+kills+tiger+most+times&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-zJXWrvvhAhUN2qwKHYFDBm8Q6AEIRDAG
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Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 19:03:34 GMT -5
Anyways, we have gotten off topic, back to Bold statements now.
Smedz: i agree with your bold statements about bears.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 18:54:31 GMT -5
Back to bold statements, a record size Kodiak and polar bear can pull down a girrafe.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 18:57:01 GMT -5
Bears(brown and polar bears) are able to burn fat and yet carry great amounts of weight due to their strong bones pound to pound. Even black bears are stronger than big cats pound to pound.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 0:27:31 GMT -5
Sloth bears are one of the most aggressive bears but they are not the strongest bears pound to pound.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 0:28:00 GMT -5
The barren ground grizzly is arguably the most aggressive of the bears.
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Post by tom on May 4, 2019 7:22:39 GMT -5
Back to bold statements, a record size Kodiak and polar bear can pull down a girrafe. That one might be debatable. Maybe a young Girraffe but an adult.... I duno. Remember the Girraffes biggest weapon is his kick which can crush a Lions skull/jaw. He uses that kick quite effectively when threatened.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 7:45:09 GMT -5
Back to bold statements, a record size Kodiak and polar bear can pull down a girrafe. That one might be debatable. Maybe a young Girraffe but an adult.... I duno. Remember the Girraffes biggest weapon is his kick which can crush a Lions skull/jaw. He uses that kick quite effectively when threatened. I understand where you are coming from but we must remember, a kodiak bear and polar bear have much thicker skulls and stronger bones than lions. I am talking about 800 kg polar bears and 750 kg kodiaks by the way.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 4, 2019 8:32:10 GMT -5
That one might be debatable. Maybe a young Girraffe but an adult.... I duno. Remember the Girraffes biggest weapon is his kick which can crush a Lions skull/jaw. He uses that kick quite effectively when threatened. I understand where you are coming from but we must remember, a kodiak bear and polar bear have much thicker skulls and stronger bones than lions. I am talking about 800 kg polar bears and 750 kg kodiaks by the way. A an adult male Giraffe weights on average about 2600 lbs and can be up to 18 feet tall. In my opinion a freak specimen of a bear over 1700 lbs would be able to take down a giraffe, its possible, but maybe 2 times out of 10 at most. Not very likely, but possible.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 8:33:48 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from but we must remember, a kodiak bear and polar bear have much thicker skulls and stronger bones than lions. I am talking about 800 kg polar bears and 750 kg kodiaks by the way. A an adult male Giraffe weights on average about 2600 lbs and can be up to 18 feet tall. In my opinion a freak specimen of a bear over 1700 lbs would be able to take down a giraffe, its possible, but maybe 2 times out of 10 at most. Not very likely, but possible.
What about a 2200 polar bear, a 2500 kodiak, or an extinct stepped brown bear?
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Post by King Kodiak on May 4, 2019 8:38:45 GMT -5
A an adult male Giraffe weights on average about 2600 lbs and can be up to 18 feet tall. In my opinion a freak specimen of a bear over 1700 lbs would be able to take down a giraffe, its possible, but maybe 2 times out of 10 at most. Not very likely, but possible.
What about a 2200 polar bear, a 2500 kodiak, or an extinct stepped brown bear? Well the 2200 lb polar is the record specimen. The record kodiak was captive, 2400 lbs. the Steppe brown bear weighted up to 2200 lbs. these specimens would have more chances sure, more weight=more bulk and strength to take the giraffe down. But the giraffe is still much taller which is a big advantage, it would kick down on the bears. So in my opinion, its the same thing but with a little more chances.
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Post by tom on May 4, 2019 9:56:21 GMT -5
Even a pride of Lions have major difficulty in bringing down an adult Giraffe. Because of the Giraffe's height A large Bear would have to gain control of the hind end and unless that happens he would be left open to the Giraffe's deadly kicks. I tend to agree with Kodiak, even the largest of Bears succeeds maybe 1 or 2 times out of 10 and that's being generous IMO.
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Post by tom on May 4, 2019 10:50:45 GMT -5
Note the difficulty with two male Lions from the first picture and the second. This is likely a female or a younger Giraffe and not an adult male Giraffe. Lions succeed in killing Giraffe if they can trip them up while running or multiple Lions jumping on their back to push them down. A Kodiak bear is not going to be jumping on a Giraffe's back thus he must control the back end to pull the Giraffe to the ground.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 1:03:15 GMT -5
Tom, I agree with you the giraffe is a dangerous animal and not to be underestimated especially with those heavy kicks. Yet a kodiak bear and a polar bear should be able to pull down a giraffe more easily than a lion can. Lions have killed giraffes but very rarely and even if they jump on top on the girrafe, its still one hell of a fight. A giraffe is a dangerous opponent for even a large bear but once the kodiak or polar bear pulls down the giraffe from behind, there is little the giraffe can do. A kodiak and polar bear are not as agile as lions but they are much more powerful than these big cats.
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Post by tom on May 5, 2019 7:51:05 GMT -5
Understood and while single Kodiak bear or Polar bear are powerful in their own right they are NOT more powerful than a whole band of Lions, if two male Lions, let a alone a whole hunting party of Lions have that much trouble with an adult Giraffe than it stands to reason a SINGLE Bear would not have more success. IF the Bear can avoid the kicks and IF the bear can control the hind end and somehow drag the Giraffe down off his feet, he has a chance. But... that's a tall task for a single Bear regardless of size.
Picturing a single Bear trying to bring down an adult Giraffe is difficult to picture in my mind.
Question for ya. Would you feel the same about a single Large Bear bringing down a bull Alaskan Yukon Moose? the Giraffe is much larger than a Moose.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 5, 2019 8:03:39 GMT -5
Yeah Tom definatly. I think we agree that a giraffe is one of the few animals out of any bear’s possibilities, except maybe the absolute largest bears (freak specimens over 1700 lbs) being successful 1 or 2 times out of 10 at most. A giraffe is a big deal and a very dangerous animal. Here is a video of a giraffe killing a single lion in a one-vs-one fight, the lion had no chance. The other members did not attack, at least not in the range of this video.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 8:06:56 GMT -5
Understood and while single Kodiak bear or Polar bear are powerful in their own right they are NOT more powerful than a whole band of Lions, if two male Lions, let a alone a whole hunting party of Lions have that much trouble with an adult Giraffe than it stands to reason a SINGLE Bear would not have more success. IF the Bear can avoid the kicks and IF the bear can control the hind end and somehow drag the Giraffe down off his feet, he has a chance. But... that's a tall task for a single Bear regardless of size.
Picturing a single Bear trying to bring down an adult Giraffe is difficult to picture in my mind.
Question for ya. Would you feel the same about a single Large Bear bringing down a bull Alaskan Yukon Moose? the Giraffe is much larger than a Moose.
I think it will be way easier for a large bear to bring down a moose compared to a giraffe.
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Post by tom on May 5, 2019 8:47:00 GMT -5
Yes it would be, however, my point was a bull moose would give any bear a run for his money. The Bear likely would struggle mightily against a large bull moose, so now imagine an even more formidable foe ala adult male Giraffe and you see what I'm trying to say. If Grizzlies lived in Africa the only Giraffe's that would possibly be on his dinner menu would be calves.
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