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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2018 6:48:35 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Post by warsaw on Dec 21, 2015 at 2:41pm Some basic information : BEAR ATTACKS (Copyright © 2001 by Steven P. French, M.D.) The following is the text for the 43rd chapter in the Fourth Edition of Wilderness Medicine, edited by Paul S. Auerbach, published by Mosby in 2001 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Auerbach BEAR-INDUCED INJURIES Bear-inflicted injuries range from minor, treated on an outpatient basis, to complex, requiring hospitalization and surgery, typically resulting in significant cosmetic and functional disability. In this regard, bear attacks are similar to most other animal attacks, particularly those inflicted by large animals. The character of such injuries is determined in part by the three main sources: teeth, claws, and paws. The teeth of bears, especially the canines, are large and sturdy. Although the teeth are not particularly sharp, the power of the jaw muscles allows the teeth to penetrate deep into soft tissues and to fracture facial bones and bones of the hand and forearm with ease. The trauma characteristically results from punctures, with shearing, tearing, and crushing forces (Figure 43-20). The claws are another important source of trauma. Although the claws on the front pads can be as long as human fingers, they are not particularly sharp on grizzlies and polar bears. The bear’s shoulders, however, provide the force and speed that allows claws to cause significant soft tissue damage in a scraping maneuver that results in deep, parallel gashes. Because black bear claws are sharper and more curved, the cuts tend to have sharper, less ragged edges. The bear paw is capable of delivering a powerful force, resulting in significant blunt trauma, particularly to the head and neck, ribcage, and abdominal cavity, especially solid organ rupture. Therefore victims of bear attacks should be evaluated for occult blunt trauma. ORIGINAL PAPER Large carnivore attacks on hominins during the Pleistocene:a forensic approach with a Neanderthal example Edgard Camarós "...The present observation of a total of 45 forensic cases iscommensurate with this known attack pattern of bears.Figure 2a shows that within the 38 case studies with bone modifications, the main bone damage is located in the head zone(skullandmandible)and upper limbs(clavicle,humerus,radius, ulna, metacarpals, and hand phalanges). Bears tend toattack the victims head, causing wounds and fractures in that zone, and humans react by protecting themselves with their arms, causing damage in that region. Long-bone diaphyseal linear, comminuted, and segmental fractures in the upper limb are not rare,and finger amputation is also common(Dharetal.2008). All these bony injuries are frequently associated with general soft-tissue wounds (Fig. 2b), as observed in other cases (Rasool et al. 2010). Therefore, bone modification after a bear attack would appear to occur in the body areas where other general non-bony wounds are inflicted by the animal..."
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2018 6:50:07 GMT -5
CONTINUED... Unfortunately, I don't have access to this paper,but .... Grizzly bear (Ursus arctos horribilis) locomotion: gaits and ground reaction forces Catherine L. Shine, Skylar Penberthy, Charles T. Robbins, O. Lynne Nelson, Craig P. McGowan
ABSTRACT
Locomotion of plantigrade generalists has been relatively little studied compared with more specialised postures even though plantigrady is ancestral among quadrupeds. Bears (Ursidae) are a representative family for plantigrade carnivorans, they have the majority of the morphological characteristics identified for plantigrade species, and they have the full range of generalist behaviours. This study compared the locomotion of adult grizzly bears (Ursus arctos horribilis Linnaeus 1758), including stride parameters, gaits and analysis of three-dimensional ground reaction forces, with that of previously studied quadrupeds. At slow to moderate speeds, grizzly bears use walks, running walks and canters. Vertical ground reaction forces demonstrated the typical M-shaped curve for walks; however, this was significantly more pronounced in the hindlimb. The rate of force development was also significantly higher for the hindlimbs than for the forelimbs at all speeds. Mediolateral forces were significantly higher than would be expected for a large erect mammal, almost to the extent of a sprawling crocodilian. There may be morphological or energetic explanations for the use of the running walk rather than the trot. The high medial forces (produced from a lateral push by the animal) could be caused by frontal plane movement of the carpus and elbow by bears. Overall, while grizzly bears share some similarities with large cursorial species, their locomotor kinetics have unique characteristics. Additional studies are needed to determine whether these characters are a feature of all bears or plantigrade species. Sylvie McKenzie said she was driving along a highway a few kilometres west of Jasper when she noticed two bears running along the road ahead.She said she slowed down to let the bears cross the road, but only the female bear did so.
The second bear – a male – simply stopped and stared at her.
McKenzie said she then started driving, putting her car between the two bears.
Sylvie McKenzie Asked whether she has any advice for drivers caught in the same situation in the future, McKenzie had simple advice: 'Stop, turn around, wait for a few minutes and go back.' (CBC)
"The male didn't like it at all, so he decided to take his feet, charge and hit my car with his two front paws," she said. "[He] just came and pounced on my car with full force and full speed."
McKenzie said the car rocked violently when the bear hit it, giving her a close-up view of the bear’s face.
"I could see his teeth, the drool on his face. I tried to speed up and put my foot on the gas pedal to get away as fast as I could."
Later, she found grizzly prints all over the side of her car, along with two big dents and several scratches. It seem that carpal bone have a high resistance to mechanical deformation. Grizzly bear front paws are surprisingly heavy,maybe due to massive carpal bones?
This is the most accurate description of the striking ability IMHO: "...The attack of a Bear is usually sudden and rapid, and he either tries to deal his opponent a blow with a forepaw by executing a rapid and violent movement to the side ,or he quickly trots up to his enemy ,suddenly lift himself on his hind-legs in the immediate proximity of his foe whom he tries to knock down with a violent stroke of the front-paw,or else he deals him a sound blow and gives him a quick bite..."
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2018 7:01:15 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on people that say bears don't use paw swipes when fighting? When debating bear vs big cat fight online alot of big cats supporters like to claim that bears seldom use paw swipes while in battle? Tell me what you guys think about this. Kodiak is correct when he says that most of this info is on the topic "Fighting and Killing Techniques" . But, we will leave it here for access should you need this info for a debate on the subject. The answer is... YES. A powerful paw-strike is one of several fighting skills used by bears. It would be truly interesting should the force of a grizzly's paw-strike be measured.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2018 7:11:19 GMT -5
www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict13.html Grizzly bears - the ultimate carnivore: Almost all queries received on this topic request answers to the lion versus tiger question. Oddly, few people simply ask which is considered the Ultimate Carnivore. This honour is held by an animal the tiger does not often have encounter; it is the grizzly bear. The grizzly bear is a poor predator, taking down a caribou only when the opportunity arises. This, however, shifted his evolution in favour of the job in hand, namely as a digger of hard barren ground for roots, tubers and den building. The grizzly bear subsequently evolved enormous bone and muscle density; roughly ten times our own for a given size. They have developed into huge and enormously powerful animals. Big cat biology is very different. They have evolved powerful elastic muscles over a low weight, low density bone structure to suit their purpose of chasing down prey. Grizzly bear pit fights: The Californians of the late 19th century staged well-documented pit fights with grizzlies and spanish bulls. The grizzlies, using their paw as a club, shattered the unfortunate bull's skull or shoulder bones so easily that the betting became poor. Eventually, and at considerable cost, African lions were brought in to raise the stakes. The most fierce of the adult males was sent in whilst the grizzly was already waiting in the pits. The lion was known for bravely charging straight in and looked good for the money, but the grizzly killed a male lion almost as easily as he'd killed the bull. The Californians never understood why. We now know that it was enormously strong bone density meeting a low density skull. At a range of 4 feet the blow crashed in before the lion could apply the wind pipe lock, which is lion and tiger learnt behaviour for taking down prey animals. The ferocity of this animal easily matches that of an unsettled African lion.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2018 7:15:36 GMT -5
Note: Not only does the grizzly have a thick skull and a thick powerfully muscled neck; all designed to absorb impact but also a paw designed to absorb impact. As I have often expressed it, a grizzly is a mugger and a bully, a mauler and a brawler. He is built for the fight. His paw-strike in magnified by large shoulder muscles that reinforce his massive upper-body strength. He has the broad thick build of a wrestler with in-turned feet like a bulldog.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 7:45:37 GMT -5
Note: Not only does the grizzly have a thick skull and a thick powerfully muscled neck; all designed to absorb impact but also a paw designed to absorb impact. As I have often expressed it, a grizzly is a mugger and a bully, a mauler and a brawler. He is built for the fight. His paw-strike in magnified by large shoulder muscles that reinforce his massive upper-body strength. He has the broad thick build of a wrestler with in-turned feet like a bulldog. Awesome Even a bear paw can absorb impact.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 13:23:02 GMT -5
Bear uses paw swipe and break a claw.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 16, 2018 16:19:15 GMT -5
Bear uses paw swipe and break a claw. wow thats pretty cool, i have seen injuries on bears but never a broken claw.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 16:21:01 GMT -5
Bear uses paw swipe and break a claw. wow thats pretty cool, i have seen injuries on bears but never a broken claw. Yes this go to show how fragile bears claws are.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 8:03:21 GMT -5
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Post by Polar on Nov 17, 2018 14:37:05 GMT -5
Bears do use paw swipes, yes, but much less than they use their jaws. Jaws are primary attack weapons of caniforms, and since bears are closest related to dogs, they use their jaws more than cats normally.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 17, 2018 15:57:17 GMT -5
Bears do use paw swipes, yes, but much less than they use their jaws. Jaws are primary attack weapons of caniforms, and since bears are closest related to dogs, they use their jaws more than cats normally. Definatly agree there. Bears do use paw swipes of course, couple of videos showing this, also the reports of moose and wolf decapitation. But as you just said, bears prefer other methods of fighting, like using their jaws and also wrestling and just using their weight to crush the oponents spine or ribs. When a bear fights another bear, its basically all wrestling and hugging, when a bear fights another animal, they still prefer to wrestle, but they use paw swipes also, that is what i have noticed.
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Post by BruteStrength on Nov 17, 2018 22:46:30 GMT -5
Bears do use paw swipes, yes, but much less than they use their jaws. Jaws are primary attack weapons of caniforms, and since bears are closest related to dogs, they use their jaws more than cats normally. Yes I also noticed that as well . Bears resemble a big dog kinda when fighting because dogs like to hold on tight and shake their head. Like a pit bull.
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Post by brobear on Nov 20, 2018 15:30:19 GMT -5
I have sat and watched grizzlies fight each other. I have observed a great many such awesome battles. I seldom witness such a fight without seeing paw-strikes. ( IMO ) The power of these paw-strikes are not fully appreciated because the great bears are able to withstand and absorb the terrific impact. It is also my opinion that when a grizzly delivers a paw-strike, he is merely trying to punish his opponent. Since a paw-strike will not kill a fellow grizzly, when the great bear kills another animal in this fashion, it is more of a fluke that a planned kill. A grizzly's jaws and teeth are his true killing weapons.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 20, 2018 16:57:20 GMT -5
Do you have some of those videos Brobear?
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Post by tom on Nov 20, 2018 19:42:14 GMT -5
Here's one that I'm sure we've all seen before. This however, depicts more grappling than paw swipes. If you watch closely though you can see chunks of fur flying as the claws rake the coat. You also notice that each bear uses his teeth to try and grab the other bear by the ear or what ever he can get in his mouth. Every video I've seen where a Grizzly is attacking a large mammal he tries to wrestle it to the ground and then instinctively goes for the throat much the same as other large predators. I remember vividly the vid of the sow Grizzly doing battle with the bull Caribou along the stream. She finally got the advantage by using the Bulls antlers to wrestle him to the ground or water in this case and then it was all but over once she got to his throat.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 20, 2018 19:53:16 GMT -5
That is probably the best video of a bear fight Tom, but they dont swipe not one time there, lol. Its 100% pure wrestling and hugging.
here you can see couple of swipes.
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Post by tom on Nov 20, 2018 20:12:41 GMT -5
Definitely a defensive swipe with the Wolves.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 20, 2018 20:15:24 GMT -5
What i have noticed is that when bears fight other bears, its basically all wrestling. When a bear fights another animal like a tiger, lion, wolf, cougar, moose, or bull, they still use wresting mostly, but they also use paw swipes. there are accounts of moose and wolf being decapitated by paw swipes.
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Post by BruteStrength on Nov 20, 2018 22:50:13 GMT -5
I never bought the whole idea of a bear decapitating a moose. I never believed that. Some do but I don't don't.
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