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Post by malikc6 on Oct 5, 2020 14:41:22 GMT -5
A bear fighting for its cubs will always fight much harder and with less self preservation than just fighting for her own life. A fight to the death aside, I see the tiger running away almost every time.
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Post by brobear on Oct 5, 2020 14:49:33 GMT -5
A bear fighting for its cubs will always fight much harder and with less self preservation than just fighting for her own life. A fight to the death aside, I see the tiger running away almost every time. This is true. I agree 100%. For the tiger to take-on even an adult *female Ussuri brown bear, the big cat would either have to be desperate ( feed or starve ) or he would have to feel cornered and fighting the bear his only alternative. This is without question as a tiger has no wish to go toe-to-toe against even a female sloth bear less than half his own weight. But the question remains; IF they fight face-to-face, then what would be the outcome? *At this point; "The Old Green One" and myself estimate this fight at a 50/50. All others agree that the tiger will defeat the Ussuri she-bear more often than not.
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Post by malikc6 on Oct 5, 2020 15:28:15 GMT -5
A bear fighting for its cubs will always fight much harder and with less self preservation than just fighting for her own life. A fight to the death aside, I see the tiger running away almost every time. This is true. I agree 100%. For the tiger to take-on even an adult *female Ussuri brown bear, the big cat would either have to be desperate ( feed or starve ) or he would have to feel cornered and fighting the bear his only alternative. This is without question as a tiger has no wish to go toe-to-toe against even a female sloth bear less than half his own weight. But the question remains; IF they fight face-to-face, then what would be the outcome? *At this point; "The Old Green One" and myself estimate this fight at a 50/50. All others agree that the tiger will defeat the Ussuri she-bear more often than not. I think if the sow bear wasn't fighting for her cubs, she would lose more often than not. However in this scenario, I'd say either the tiger wins and probably dies after its over, or the bear wins and dies after its over. A stalemate.
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Post by malikc6 on Oct 5, 2020 16:00:23 GMT -5
I'm going somewhere with this question. Who do you think would win? A male tiger against a female tiger defending her cubs?
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Post by brobear on Oct 5, 2020 16:11:14 GMT -5
I'm going somewhere with this question. Who do you think would win? A male tiger against a female tiger defending her cubs? The male tiger which is much heavier and stronger. But where the female Ussuri brown bear is concerned; there are conflicting reports on the full-grown she-bears size. Thus I am going with weight-parity with the male tiger and giving this a 50/50.
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Post by malikc6 on Oct 5, 2020 16:24:29 GMT -5
Would you say that a female tiger would severely damage a male tiger if she was fighting for her cubs? Remember I'm going somewhere with this.
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Post by brobear on Oct 5, 2020 16:39:59 GMT -5
Would you say that a female tiger would severely damage a male tiger if she was fighting for her cubs? Remember I'm going somewhere with this. The tigress would leave her mark; that's a certainty. The male would kill the tigress, but would then have to lick his wounds.
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Post by malikc6 on Oct 5, 2020 16:50:40 GMT -5
I was basically asking how you picture a tigress that's desperate to find food for her cubs trying to kill a female brown bears PROTECTING her cubs. How that would go at least.
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Post by brobear on Oct 5, 2020 18:11:49 GMT -5
I was basically asking how you picture a tigress that's desperate to find food for her cubs trying to kill a female brown bears PROTECTING her cubs. How that would go at least. From page #1 - Tiger vs Brown Bear in the Wild A comparison of the Amur tigress and the Amur ( black grizzly ) she-bear - Average Sized Animals: Tiger: head and body length - 172 cm ( 5 feet 8 inches ) - Grizzly: head and body length - 160 cm ( 5 feet 3 inches ). Tiger: shoulder height - 78 cm ( 2 feet 8 inches ) - Grizzly: shoulder height - 96 cm ( 3 feet 2 inches ). Tiger: weight - 137.5 kg ( 303 pounds ) - Grizzly: weight - 189 kg ( 417 pounds ). *Average mature male Amur tiger and average mature female Amur grizzly = 189 kg ( 417 pounds ) each - the bear is 35.56 cm ( 14 inches ) shorter in head and body length. *The Ussuri she-bear is too big and strong for the tigress. A mismatch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 8:31:19 GMT -5
Another thing I also didn`t mention is that bears actually use their jaws like dogs too which means biting any part of the body, while tiger only really goes for the neck. Tigers don`t do that which makes it superior weapons less useful.
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Post by brobear on Oct 6, 2020 15:11:05 GMT -5
Another thing I also didn`t mention is that bears actually use their jaws like dogs too which means biting any part of the body, while tiger only really goes for the neck. Tigers don`t do that which makes it superior weapons less useful. I have also learned that sometimes a brown bear will kill his opponent through the use of "rapid biting" where he quickly bites and rips chunk after chunk after chunk of flesh, fur, and meat from his antagonist.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 11, 2020 6:50:22 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 16, 2020 4:17:01 GMT -5
*The average full-grown male Ussuri brown bear ( 9+ yrs and up ) somewhere betwen 650 and 700 pounds. OK, I know these numbers came from some reliable sources, however, it makes no sense that from 1970 to 1993 that the male brown bears would gain in size while the females would lose in size. Any explanations?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 16, 2020 4:23:51 GMT -5
That is an interesting point. How will male bears gain weight while females lose weight over the years. I know that poaching has reduced the average weight of certain animals. Maybe the Ussuri brown bears are now protected from poachers.
Or the males grow larger in certain areas. Male brown bears take longer to become full grown compared to their female counterparts too. Therefore, protecting them from poaching helps.
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Post by brobear on Oct 16, 2020 4:27:31 GMT -5
From 1970 through to 1993, the male Ussuri brown bears gained 6kg or 13 pounds / the she-bears lost 44kg or 97 pounds. ( according to this chart ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 16, 2020 8:37:57 GMT -5
From 1993 to 2001, there is barely any info for both the male and female bears. Only the average weight and the max weight are given. The lowest weights and the number of specimens weighted are missing.
As for why the female bears got smaller from one time period to another, i have no idea to be honest. All i can think about is the sample of specimens (# of specimens weighted) was very small and they were very light in weight.
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Post by brobear on Oct 16, 2020 8:39:49 GMT -5
From 1993 to 2001, there is barely any info for both the male and female bears. Only the average weight and the max weight are given. The lowest weights and the number of specimens weighted are missing.
As for why the female bears got smaller from one time period to another, i have no idea to be honest. All i can think about is the sample of specimens were very small and very light in weight. My thoughts exactly. I believe that a typical male Amur tiger and a typical female Ussuri brown bear are pretty-much at weight-parity.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 16, 2020 8:46:43 GMT -5
Notice the Amur tigers in that chart. From one time period to the other, the male lost 26.5 kg and the female 16.5 kg. So everyone lost weight on average......except the boss of the woods.
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Post by brobear on Oct 16, 2020 8:51:21 GMT -5
Notice the Amur tigers in that chart. From one time period to the other, the male lost 26.5 kg and the female 16.5 kg. So everyone lost weight on average......except the boss of the woods. I understand the tiger losing weight due to prey shortages; but the bear should be the same with both sexes.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 16, 2020 8:55:37 GMT -5
No idea brobear, maybe that average was based on only 3 or 4 specimens, who knows. Anyhow, we already know from info posted by Warsaw that the average for females is around 361 lbs. That makes more sense.
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