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Post by brobear on Oct 15, 2023 21:51:50 GMT -5
By GuateGojira
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Post by brobear on Oct 15, 2023 22:04:06 GMT -5
190 kilograms is equal to 418.88 pounds. 247 kilograms is equal to 544.54 pounds. *this gives the average U. brown bear a weight advantage of 125.66 pounds according to this singular study 1993-2001.
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Post by arctozilla on Oct 16, 2023 1:06:17 GMT -5
So the gray wolf from RFE is the Himalayan wolf? It's nowhere as large as the great plains wolf from Montana and coastal wolf from Alaska. So tigers have competitors nowhere as impressive as the grizzly do. Who cares if Bengal tigers kill Mugger crocs, a semi-acquatic reptile is nowhere as impressive as pack of gray wolves.
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Post by Montezuma on Oct 16, 2023 1:54:11 GMT -5
So the gray wolf from RFE is the Himalayan wolf? It's nowhere as large as the great plains wolf from Montana and coastal wolf from Alaska. So tigers have competitors nowhere as impressive as the grizzlies. Who cares if Bengal tigers kill Mugger crocs, a semi-acquatic reptile is nowhere as impressive as pack of gray wolves. Well yeah, that true. North American wolves are the largest wolf specied to be found on earth. They are legendary in size and ferocity than their asian and european kins; and the grizzly's greatest rivals are other grizzlies and gray wolves. Bengal tigers face muggers and packs of dholes as the main competor. With alreadily know that how smaller rivals like sloth bears often beat their ass off; a thing never happened to grizzly bear. S. tigers avoid brown bears and their rivals are less easier to be found. So yes, gray wolves are great rival nowhere else to be found. I don't understand that why Black bears went unmentioned in this chart. They are atleast larger than leopard cats.
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Post by brobear on Oct 16, 2023 6:53:28 GMT -5
Quote; I don't understand that why Black bears went unmentioned in this chart. They are atleast larger than leopard cats. Probably because they consume very little meat.
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Post by arctozilla on Oct 16, 2023 7:59:23 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Oct 18, 2023 14:27:53 GMT -5
Quote; I don't understand that why Black bears went unmentioned in this chart. They are atleast larger than leopard cats. Probably because they consume very little meat. Actually, the black bear still needed to be mentioned as the title say "predator". All bears are classified as "apex predator" of their habitats even if they don't consume much meat. Carnivore and predator are two terms of lose meaning, not strict. Bears are classified as carnivores even if they are actually omnivores and so in that sense bears are also predators even if they are scavengers. Pertinent to strict scientific classification, black bear should be mentioned, otherwise its ok.
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Post by brobear on Oct 18, 2023 15:18:34 GMT -5
Quote; I don't understand that why Black bears went unmentioned in this chart. They are atleast larger than leopard cats. Probably because they consume very little meat. Actually, the black bear still needed to be mentioned as the title say "predator". All bears are classified as "apex predator" of their habitats even if they don't consume much meat. Carnivore and predator are two terms of lose meaning, not strict. Bears are classified as carnivores even if they are actually omnivores and so in that sense bears are also predators even if they are scavengers. Pertinent to strict scientific classification, black bear should be mentioned, otherwise its ok. Honestly, the absence of the Ussuri black bear was the first thing I noticed also. I guess we just have to consider the source. I mean, how much competition is the little leopard cat?
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 9:48:52 GMT -5
Amur Tiger Center: m.vk.com/wall-68726894_21174 m.vk.com/amurtigercenter?from=post A few days ago, the Amur Tiger Center posted some pictures on their VK page, showing the prey animals which are food for tigers. In the Jewish Autonomous Region, brown bears are also hunted and eaten by tigers. The African swine fever plague decimated the wild boar populations in Far East Russia. In the Leninsky district of the Jewish Autonomous Region, there was at least 10 outbreaks of the ASF plague officially recorded, in 2019, there was a mass shooting of wild boars to further stop the spread of the ASF plague. The primary food source of Amur tigers has almost been wiped out in some areas and districts. However, other favourite prey items of the tigers, such as bears and deer, are there in those forests for the tigers to hunt and eat. In the JAO region, there are significantly more brown bears than Himalayan black bears, so in this particular region, its likely brown bears are killed and eaten by tigers more often than black bears. ____________________________________________ Although an adult male tiger will sometimes ambush and kill an adult female brown bear, far more often the tiger chooses an adolescent bear of around 3 or 4 years old, who has just been left on his own without his or her mother's protection. As always, the tiger strictly avoids adult male brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 9:55:54 GMT -5
Amur Tiger Center: "Illustrated tiger menu in the Jewish Autonomous Region. Unfortunately, wild boar in this area is still on the stop list." Two of the tiger's prey species pictured: a deer and a brown she-bear. You can compare the size of the deer to the she-bear and see how small this bear is.
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 10:01:50 GMT -5
Tigress and a young sub-adult Himalayan black bear. Another prey sometimes ambushed by the striped cat.
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Post by brobear on Oct 27, 2023 1:51:12 GMT -5
Food for thought: The heaviest confirmed weight for a wild tiger was just under 600 pounds. Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 418.9 pounds. The average full-grown male Kodiak bear weighs from 882 to 992 pounds. Record wild Kodiak bear weighed 1656 pounds. _________________________________________ So, the biggest brown bear subspecies is easily double the weight of the biggest tiger subspecies.
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 9:32:49 GMT -5
Conclusions Tigers in the RFE habitually hunt brown bears for food. Not the other way round. Most bears killed are small to medium-sized animals. Even adult male tigers specialising on brown bears seldom target bears of their own size. Adult females, however, have been killed more than once and there is no doubt (Bromlej, 1965) a tiger is able to kill a larger brown bear. There are reliable reports on large brown bears killed by tigers. But 'large', apart form the bear killed in the 1951 incident, was never substantiated and most bears were killed in winter, indicating Schatuns were involved in most. Schatuns are desperate animals, willing to attack anything they encounter. When Schatuns attack adult male tigers, fights erupt and these can go either way. It seems Schatuns were involved in most of the few incidents with a tragic outcome. Some Russian researchers think some adult male brown bears sometimes deliberately target and attack tigresses with cubs in favourable circumstances (snowy conditions). Although it is known tigresses sometimes perish in encounters with male brown bears, the number is too limited to get to conclusions. _______________________________________________________________________________________ My Conclusions: 1- *We have not one single confirmed case of a tiger ever killing a bear near his own size and certainly not a bear larger than himself. 2- Quote: Bromlej (in Heptner and Sludskij, 1980, page 149), in May 1951, found the remains of a 158 cm. (way of measuring unknown) and 170 kg. (approximately) brown bear killed by a tigress near the Tatibe River. *This 1951 story was never substantiated. The tigress was not seen and the bear was not weighed and likely not measured. But, if those estimates are correct, the bear was a fat adolescent bear. 3- Quote: When Schatuns attack adult male tigers, fights erupt and these can go either way. *Except that we do not have one single confirmed account of a tiger killing even a starving sickly shatun bear. 4- Quote: Some Russian researchers think some adult male brown bears sometimes deliberately target and attack tigresses with cubs in favourable circumstances (snowy conditions). Although it is known tigresses sometimes perish in encounters with male brown bears, the number is too limited to get to conclusions. *A tigress with cubs is more likely to stand her ground in defense of her cubs. Also, if she runs, she knows that the bear will catch her cubs. A full-grown male tiger will retreat from a large bear. A young adult male tiger, the equivalent to a young teenage boy, might be foolish enough to fight with an adult male brown bear. This is why all of the tigers known to be killed by a brown bear were either tigress' or young adult male tigers. 5- Peter mentions that some tigers killed by bears might have been sickly. *Perhaps unable to retreat fast enough. 21st century
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 9:35:19 GMT -5
Year 2000, a brown bear kills two adult female tigers. _________________________________________ Predation on tigers (by Peter) Bears do not habitually hunt tigers, but it is known adult male brown bears consume tigers killed in disputes. It seems some adult male brown bears, in some circumstances, deliberately target tigers (posts 520 and 536). Kostoglod mentioned a case in which a bear followed a tiger for a long distance (Chapter 19). The tiger escaped, but another one was attacked, killed and eaten. Although tigresses sometimes perish in fights with male brown bears, the number is incidents is too limited to get to general statements. In 2010, two tigresses, a subadult (19 months of age) and an 8-year old ('Vera') with two (about 18 months old) cubs, were killed by brown bears (post 520). Apart from the fact they were killed by brown bears, not much was known. The young tigress, behaviourwise, showed signs of disease and it is also known at least 4 other tigers (two subadult males, one adult female and one adult male) displayed abnormal behaviour before their death (Miquelle). There is no additional information on the 8-year old tigress mentioned above. In the last 50 years, according to Alexious3, at least two adult male tigers have been killed by brown bears (post 568). One perished in 1960 and it could be this is the case used by Sysoev for his fictional story on 'Amba'. Another tiger died after a fight in 1972. Rukovsky mentioned another incident (post 70). Two of the three male tigers killed, at roundabout four years of age, were young adults. The third one was described as a medium-sized animal (age unknown). There are other accounts of male tigers killed by brown bears (Sysoev mentioned two cases and Bonns mentioned an incident near or in a river in 1943), but these, as far as is known, have not been acknowledged by researchers. The number of tigers killed in fights between 1943-1996 (referring to the table posted earlier) indicate there could be more cases (posts 17 and 55). Apart from one, all fights referred to in the table (post 55) were corroborated by Russian researchers, but in most incidents details were missing. It is, however, known brown bears were involved in most incidents. The information available suggests most tigers killed were killed in winter. As brown bears hibernate in winter, it has to be assumed non-hibernating bears ('Shatuns') were involved in most of these. Schatuns are desperate animals and most seem to perish. This means many would be inclined to attack any animal, tigers and other (hibernating) bears included (post 584). Although at least one was a smallish female who killed and ate a much larger hibernating male brown bear, most Schatuns seem to be males. As most of the 'large brown bears' killed by tigers mentioned above were killed in winter, it has to be assumed some, if not all, of these were Schatuns. Same for tigers killed in winter. 21st century
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 9:38:41 GMT -5
Dudhwa tiger may have been killed by huge sloth bear: Officials BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudhwa National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudhwa officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scratches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty. “The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear,” said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a “large carnivore” but did not specifically say it was another tiger. Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, ‘Matkasur’, had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist. “The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear’s thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived,” the field director said. If nothing else, the great difficulty that a huge male Bengal tiger has against even a female sloth bear well below half the tigers' weight should be enough to terminate any delusions a tiger fan has of his favorite animal fighting and defeating a full-grown male brown bear. Very likely true, but we will not declare this event as a fact.
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 9:51:29 GMT -5
From Warsaw: While I agree that prime adult male tiger is to much for any sloth bears,but the tigress is much smaller . So the verdict is "Bengal Tiger defeats Sloth Bear, Sloth Bear defeats ( kill after long battle) Bengal Tigress,more often that not............. *Note: Unlike the tiger fanboys, we will not claim this event to be confirmed regardless that all evidence points to the sloth bear as the killer.
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 9:55:22 GMT -5
primamedia.ru/news/118750/ Two Amur tigers (females) died in Primorye in a fight with a bear March 2, 2010 VLADIVOSTOK, March 02, PrimaMedia. A probable meeting with a brown bear led to the death of two female Amur tigers this winter on the territory of the Sikhote-Alin State Nature Biosphere Reserve in the Primorsky Territory. According to the official website of Rosprirodnadzor, on January 21, 2010, the remains of a radio-tagged tigress Vera and her radio collar were found in the upper reaches of the Khanov cluster (Kunaleika river basin). According to experts, a possible reason for the incident could have been an attack on a brown bear tigress. The tigress Vera was first captured and tagged with a radio collar in 2002. After the collar was finished, in 2007, the tigress was recaptured and fitted with a new collar. At the time of her death, the tigress was eight years old. Presumably she had two cubs, 17-18 months old. On February 17, 2010, the remains of the radio-tagged tigress Ani and her radio collar were found in the upper reaches of the Pravaya Poludennaya cluster (the Columbus river basin). On the collar, the teeth marks of a large predator were clearly visible. The specialists of the department also consider a collision with a brown bear to be the probable cause of the death of the tigress. The tigress Anya was caught for radio tagging at the mouth of the Solontsovy cluster (the Zabolochennaya river basin) in November 2009 at the age of 1.8 years. At the time of capture, she was walking with her brother and mother. Perhaps the young tigress found herself in the area of the Columbus River basin in search of her own territory. Judging by the data taken from the GPS-collar, the death of the predator occurred on December 10-11, 2009. The Sikhote-Alin State Biosphere Natural Reserve was organized on February 10, 1935 and is a unique natural treasury of Russia. The original purpose of its creation was the preservation and restoration of the sable, which was almost exterminated at that time. Currently, the reserve is the most convenient place for observing the Amur tiger. The Sikhote-Alin Nature Reserve was also the first natural park in the Far East, included by UNESCO in the world system of biosphere reserves. Another report of these events - 21st century.
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Post by brobear on Oct 29, 2023 21:03:20 GMT -5
Food for thought: The heaviest confirmed weight for a wild tiger was just under 600 pounds. Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds. Average mature Amur tiger (contemporary) - 418.9 pounds. The average full-grown male Kodiak bear weighs from 882 to 992 pounds. Record wild Kodiak bear weighed 1656 pounds. _________________________________________ So, the biggest brown bear subspecies is easily double the weight of the biggest tiger subspecies. The smallest tigers and the smallest brown bears. Average mature Malayan tiger: 265.9 pounds. Average mature Malayan tigress: 217.2 pounds. Average mature Sumatran tiger: 271.2 pounds. Average mature Sumatran tigress: 216.1 pounds. Average mature Javan tiger: 276.7 pounds. Average mature Javan tigress: 209.4 pounds. Average mature Bali tiger: 209.4 pounds. Average mature Bali tigress: 159.8 pounds. _________________________________ Contenders for "Smallest Brown Bear" are: 1- Himalayan brown bear - M 135kg = 298 pounds / F 70kg = 154 pounds. 2- Tibetan brown bear - 3- Gobi bear - M 5 years old - 108 kg. ) - 238.10 pounds / 10 years old - 155 kg. ) - 341.72 pounds. 4- Syrian brown bear 5- Atlas bear 6- Marsican brown bear (info I find on this bear is conflicting)
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Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2023 12:48:50 GMT -5
By GuateGojira From an unnamed source: Why wasn't the Himalayan black bear included in this chart? The Himalayan (Ussuri black) bear is classified as a 'large predator' too. It is the 3rd largest predator after the tiger and brown bear. Brown bears don't pose any "serious competition" to tigers for resources because the vast majority of their diet is plant-based, they rarely or occasionally hunt. Brown bears only serve as commensal animals (mostly scavenging on left-over tiger kills) and a prey item of tigers. And the specific subspecies of wolf that's native to the Ussuri region is the Mongolian grey wolf, not the Himalayan/Tibetan wolf. The latter subspecies is not found in the Amur-Ussuri regions of Russia, but is from the Himalayan range, Tibetan Plateau and the mountains of Central Asia. Although the Mongolian grey wolf and Himalayan wolf are genetically the same wolf, they are recognized as a different subspecies.
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Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2023 12:53:11 GMT -5
Quote; "Brown bears don't pose any "serious competition" to tigers for resources because the vast majority of their diet is plant-based, they rarely or occasionally hunt. Brown bears only serve as commensal animals (mostly scavenging on left-over tiger kills) and a prey item of tigers." Fact: This is mostly true. Most of their meat comes from scavenging and from chasing other predators from their kills. However, more male wild boar are killed by brown bears than by tigers. It is also true than adolescent brown bears from 3 to 4 years old are often ambushed and killed by tigers. Much less often, a full-grown she-bear is ambushed and killed.
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