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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2023 8:40:59 GMT -5
*Probably the stupidest and most ignorant statement that ever emerged from an un-bear-savvy tiger fanboy's mouth... Quote: "I think another important factor to consider is that in the Sikhote-Alin, tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality." *Truth; life for a brown bear in the Sikhote-Alin is little different from life for a brown bear anywhere else. It's true that adolescent brown bears and, much more rarely, adult female brown bears, usually at least 100 pounds lighter than the tiger, are sometimes ambushed and killed by large male tigers. These bears make up roughly 2% (or less) of the large male tiger's diet. Of course, of this small percentage, no telling how much comes from found dead bears. The leading cause of death for adult male brown bears, Sikhote-Alin and everywhere else, are (1) human caused, (2) a bigger bear, and (3) old bears dying in their dens over the Winter months. *Once again for the untold number of times, there is not one single confirmed case of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear. If tiger enthusiasts would stick to the confirmed facts, and stop trying to create their own version of the truth, we could all rest easier. 'Nuff said.
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 24, 2023 13:59:49 GMT -5
*Probably the stupidest and most ignorant statement that ever emerged from an un-bear-savvy tiger fanboy's mouth... Quote: "I think another important factor to consider is that in the Sikhote-Alin, tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality."
We have alreadily answered this stupidity well before. See from Reply#71 to #75.
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/58941/thread
Cougars, even though kill alot of wolves, don't become the main natural threat of morality to wolves.
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2023 14:44:18 GMT -5
True; and just as the wolves, black bears, and grizzlies more often benefit from the presents of cougars, adult male brown bears benefit from the presents of tigers. Just another predator from which he can usurp a free meal.
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Post by brobear on Aug 25, 2023 14:14:27 GMT -5
The tiger fanboys and their so-called elite fake-professors are still avoiding many facts concerning alleged unconfirmed rumors of tigers killing full-grown male brown bears. So hypocritical. 1- The W.J. Jankowski Story.... Could you just imagine the reaction bear fans would receive from big cat fans if we posted a story told by a trophy hunter who had nothing to show other than a photo of a tiger be he had shot and killed? I mean, if his story was about the tiger, which he describes as being bigger that any confirmed reports, have killed and nearly consumed a huge male brown bear, yet no pictures of the bear. This story has more holes than Swiss cheese - not to mention treating a story told by a sports hunter as if he were a reliable source of information. 2- Ochkarik and Chlamida... No kill site found. No bear remains found. Hunters had recently moved into the area giving the bear Chlamida reason to leave. And, a year later, in 2018, Mantle (Chlamida) was seen again. Not a single thread of evidence supporting their ridiculous claim. Also note, nothing mentioned about any battle wounds on Ochkarik. 3- Odyr and Misha.... Fresh footprints in the snow of a large bear do not match the snow-covered frozen carcass of a small 3-year-old adolescent bear. Yet the tiger fanboys still insist that Odyr (the tiger) killed a gigantic male brown bear after a prolonged struggle and (this is hilarious) the tiger walks away without a scratch. Isn't it rather strange that in all three of these so-called events, the tiger walks away without so much as a scratch.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 28, 2023 19:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2023 10:54:02 GMT -5
The tiger fanboys and their so-called elite fake-professors are still avoiding many facts concerning alleged unconfirmed rumors of tigers killing full-grown male brown bears. So hypocritical. 1- The W.J. Jankowski Story.... Could you just imagine the reaction bear fans would receive from big cat fans if we posted a story told by a trophy hunter who had nothing to show other than a photo of a tiger he had shot and killed? I mean, if his story was about the tiger, which he describes as being bigger that any confirmed reports, have killed and nearly consumed a huge male brown bear, yet no pictures of the bear. This story has more holes than Swiss cheese - not to mention treating a story told by a sports hunter as if he were a reliable source of information. 2- Ochkarik and Chlamida... No kill site found. No bear remains found. Hunters had recently moved into the area giving the bear Chlamida reason to leave. And, a year later, in 2018, Mantle (Chlamida) was seen again. Not a single thread of evidence supporting their ridiculous claim. Also note, nothing mentioned about any battle wounds on Ochkarik. 3- Odyr and Misha.... Fresh footprints in the snow of a large bear do not match the snow-covered frozen carcass of a small 3-year-old adolescent bear. Yet the tiger fanboys still insist that Odyr (the tiger) killed a gigantic male brown bear after a prolonged struggle and (this is hilarious) the tiger walks away without a scratch. Isn't it rather strange that in all three of these so-called events, the tiger walks away without so much as a scratch. Something just occurred to me. First of all, we know that the relatively large bear footprints found on site were not those of the three year old adolescent bear whose carcass lie frozen. Isn't it strange that the bear carcass was never examined. Tiger fans are still claiming the bear carcass to be that of a huge male bear, even though they have been proven wrong. If the team who had discovered the carcass had given the carcass an examination, they could have not only taken measurements, but they could have looked for the tiger's teeth wounds on the back of the dead bear's neck. The Odyr and Misha event is laughable. The three-year-old bear probably died of starvation and freezing due to not gaining the necessary fat needed for hibernation.
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Post by brobear on Sept 8, 2023 14:04:06 GMT -5
A tigress in the Khabarovsk forest got rid of a maniac www.todaykhv.ru/news/incident/9372/ The bear, which regularly took prey from the tigress in the Lazo area of the Khabarovsk Territory, for reasons that are not entirely clear, fell behind her. As previously reported by the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency, a huge brown bear with manic persistence took prey from a tigress named Rachel with two cubs who live on the territory of a forestry and hunting farm in the area named after. Lazo. The fact of persecution is confirmed by footage of a camera trap installed by game biologist, director of the Durminskoye forestry and hunting enterprise Alexander Batalov, on a tiger trail not far from the base.
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Post by brobear on Sept 8, 2023 14:05:16 GMT -5
Typically, situations where a tiger and a bear are at odds with each other occur due to a lack of food resources. However, during this season there is enough food in the forest for all animals. This can be seen from the bear, which has eaten to incredible sizes. It seems that he was simply accustomed to an easy life “on the shoulders” of the tigress.
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Post by brobear on Sept 8, 2023 14:06:52 GMT -5
Video: Bespectacled boy and Rachel, summer 2017 Although in the area named after There is a lot of snow, neither the white-breasted nor the brown bears have gone into hibernation yet. According to the game manager, they can stay awake for a long time if there is enough food in the forest.
- We do not abandon our intentions to shoot Chlamys. We still have a license until the end of November, but he is not an ordinary bear - he is very cunning. In general, brown bears are smart and, according to scientists’ observations, they are superior in ingenuity to apes and wolves; they can perfectly predict the situation,” Batalov noted.
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Post by brobear on Sept 8, 2023 14:13:36 GMT -5
Quote; "- We do not abandon our intentions to shoot Chlamys." The bear had plenty of reason to leave the area. Quote; "... according to scientists’ observations, they are superior in ingenuity to apes and wolves; they can perfectly predict the situation,” Batalov noted." *Note: No kill site found. No bear remains found. No one single shred of evidence found that would suggest that Chlamys was killed by a tiger. ________________________________________ Quote; "It seems that he was simply accustomed to an easy life “on the shoulders” of the tigress." *Note; They talk as if this situation was something unique. It wasn't. Satellite bears commonly occur in the RFE. A big male brown bear chooses a tigress, usually one with cubs, and for a limited time, he follows her and usurps her kills. Even though, during this time, he is acquiring easy meals, evidently the bear tires of it and moves on. This forced relationship usually lasts no more than a few weeks, but may last for one or two months after which the bear moves on. Perhaps he starts thinking about a particular berry patch or fishing spot, or some other food source. Or maybe he desires the company of a she-bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2023 21:25:11 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2023 21:26:36 GMT -5
/\ To view the video please click the sentence underline: watch on YouTube.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2023 22:02:23 GMT -5
Soon we might have real life videos of these two animals actually interacting side by side.
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Post by brobear on Sept 26, 2023 11:07:23 GMT -5
A false statement made recently - Quote, "Amur tigers hunt both Himalayan black bears and Ussuri brown bears. Not every now and then, but quite often (again referring to recent research). Were adult males of both subspecies included? The answer is yes. We know of two adult male brown bears killed by male tigers, but it's likely there are more.' *Wrong. False information. To this very day (9/26/2023) there is not one single confirmed event of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear. __________________________ Edit and add: Quote, "He did say those in the know think an adult male Amur tiger have no natural enemies." *This is true. Tigers are not on the brown bear's menu as a chosen prey animal. Quote; "They concluded both Himalayan black bears and Ussuri brown bears (referring to adult males only) only very seldom displace Amur tigresses from their kill and didn't find evidence of a male Amur tiger displaced by a male brown bear. It no doubt happens (referring to a number of recent posts in this thread), but it's a singular event." *This is so easily explained and I have many times. When a tiger is feeding on his kill (a carcass) and he sees a big male brown bear approaching, there is no reason to suspect that he (the tiger) would react any differently that does a cougar when he sees a big male black bear approaching or when a leopard sees a big male sloth bear approaching. The tiger simply retreats and thus relinquishes his kill to the bigger and stronger bear. When this happens, there is no evidence left behind for a biologist or anyone else to discover. ___________________________ Unlike those tiger enthusiasts that really are quite knowledgeable, who supports a juvenile fanboy who posts false information and, equally as bad, purposefully misleading information, I will not condone that behavior here. Even more strongly, I will certainly not defend that fanboy when other knowledgeable posters attempt to correct him. I'm sure that most (if not all) big cat enthusiasts would consider most bear fans as "fanboys" simply because when we speak out honestly about tigers and bears, the truth is overwhelmingly pro-bear. However, in all areas where the cat can better the bear, I am honest. Also note, I have another forum where I defend, as best I can, the gorilla. However, unlike the tiger fans, I never purposely put out any false information nor misleading information.
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Post by brobear on Oct 1, 2023 1:00:05 GMT -5
Quote; "In 2017, a very large male brown bear that had been following, and robbing, a tigress with cubs for prolonged period of time ('Chlamyda') suddenly disappeared from the radar. Two years after he disappeared, the man who knew him quite intimately, A. Batalov, concluded he was killed and eaten by male tiger 'Ochkarik'. Five years later, an experienced team found the remains of a male bear killed and partially eaten by male tiger 'Odyr'. I'm not saying those questioning both incidents do not have a case, but the information collected in the period 1992-2023 suggests Apex, who said things are not as one-sided as many assume, has a point." ______________________________ *FACT: Even if Batalov concluded two years later that the missing bear was killed and eaten by a tiger (which I have not read in any report) that is nothing more than one individuals opinion based on no real evidence. *FACT: A group of people discovered the frozen carcass of a partially eaten three-year-old adolescent male brown bear. Nearby were both the footprints of a tiger and of a larger brown bear. A tiger living within this area named Odyr is suspected of killing the adolescent bear. ______________________________ AGAIN; When there is a real confirmed incident of a tiger actually killing a full-grown male brown bear, there will be a biological report filed. Until then, the fake professors and their fanboy followers will continue to blow smoke.
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Post by brobear on Oct 1, 2023 1:34:50 GMT -5
GENTLEMAN: THE DAY HAS FINALLY ARRIVED (MAYBE). 12 YEAR OLD MALE BENGAL TIGER FOUND DEAD, “POSSIBLY” KILLED BY A HUGE SLOTH BEAR.
Dudhwa tiger may have been killed by huge sloth bear:
BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudhwa National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudhwa officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scratches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty. “The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear,” said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a “large carnivore” but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, ‘Matkasur’, had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist. “The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear’s thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived,” the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. “This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudhwa range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area. “A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body,” Pandey said. Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, “The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
m.timesofindia.com/city/bareilly/dudhwa-tiger-may-have-been-killed-by-huge-sloth-bear-officials/amp_articleshow/68912576.cms
Here is an event where there is a strong possibility that a full-grown male tiger was killed by a sloth bear. However, unlike those over-eager tiger enthusiasts, we do not dwell on this case as nothing was actually proven. Until we have a confirmed case of a sloth bear killing a tiger, the subject is closed. We do not celebrate unconfirmed events here in the Domain.
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Post by brobear on Oct 1, 2023 2:09:52 GMT -5
Besides putting out plenty of false information, tiger fanboys also posts lots of misleading information. By this, I mean reporting true facts or events in a sly cunning manner that will mislead the reader. Here are some examples of what they do... 1- The fanboy will post a book-length conglomeration in the hope to overwhelm the reader into thinking that there are tons of facts to support the tiger. 2- When an article reads, "bear killed by tiger", the fanboys will fill-in the words " male brown bear." 3- When an article reads brown bear was killed by a tiger, the fanboy will color the story by describing the tiger as killing a large male brown bear in a face-to-face fight. Every tiger fan knows that a tiger is an ambush predator who only hunts female and juvenile brown bears. 4- Tiger fans continue to claim that there has been several known cases of tigers killing adult male brown bears while there is not even one single case of the brown bear ever killing an adult male tiger. *The exact opposite is true. We have found three cases of adult male tigers killed by brown bears - confirmed. There is not one single event confirmed of an adult male brown bear ever killed by a tiger. But the tiger fans, even their "elite top-brass" continue with their lies. _____________________________ Fact: Tigers hunt bears (not the other way around). If a tiger were capable of killing an adult male brown bear (by adult I mean a full-grown male no less than nine years old) in a face-to-face fight, then surely the tiger would not hesitate to ambush the bear. But, they do not. *The oldest male brown bear killed by a tiger (confirmed) that I know of was a 5-year old adolescent. Tiger fans claim that an adult male tiger will stand his ground to defend his kill against a full-grown male brown bear. Fact; This makes no sense. For a meal, it is extremely rare for a tiger to even fight a sloth bear half his own size. A cougar will relinquish his kill to a black bear or a grizzly without a fight. A leopard will relinquish his kill to a sloth bear without a fight. What makes the tiger fans believe that the habits of the tiger would be any different from normal cat behavior?
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Post by Everyday on Oct 8, 2023 16:23:17 GMT -5
Could you please provide a link? Over the past 30 years, I know of a case where a 3-4 year old male brown bear was killed by a tiger. All the others were female brown bears, and one time it was a (baby) bear cub.
Indeed, a five-year-old male bear is not yet an adult, and an adult male tiger is capable of killing him. But it is generally larger than than a 3-4 year old subadult bear. Therefore, it is interesting to get accurate data.
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Post by brobear on Oct 9, 2023 3:21:18 GMT -5
Could you please provide a link? Over the past 30 years, I know of a case where a 3-4 year old male brown bear was killed by a tiger. All the others were female brown bears, and one time it was a (baby) bear cub.
Indeed, a five-year-old male bear is not yet an adult, and an adult male tiger is capable of killing him. But it is generally larger than than a 3-4 year old subadult bear. Therefore, it is interesting to get accurate data.
I agree with you that, when it comes to male brown bears, the Amur tiger hunts those bears who have just recently left their mother's side and are new to being on their own. These are the most vulnerable bears to a tiger attack. No. I can no longer prove the case of the 5 year old adolescent male bear killed by a tiger. I have been a participant of wild animal face-off debates since the year 2000 (possibly late 1999) and it has been many years since I read that article. I lost the source long ago.
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Post by brobear on Oct 9, 2023 8:09:39 GMT -5
Quote; "In 2017, a very large male brown bear that had been following, and robbing, a tigress with cubs for prolonged period of time ('Chlamyda') suddenly disappeared from the radar. Two years after he disappeared, the man who knew him quite intimately, A. Batalov, concluded he was killed and eaten by male tiger 'Ochkarik'. *Seriously; where is this report from Batalov? There are numerous reasons for a bear to leave a particular area. Also note, the time any male brown bear spends following a tigress is always limited. The bear's sudden disappearance was nothing unusual. Also note, the three most common ways for a brown bear to die are (1) dying while in hibernation (2) being killed by a hunter's bullet (or other human caused death), or being killed by a bigger bear. Nowhere, in the causes of the death of adult male brown bears is the word tiger. However, there was no evidence of the bear's death. No kill site. No dead bear. *Nothing, It was stated that some bear remains were found in his droppings. So what? Amur tigers hunt adolescent brown bear from 3 to 4 years old. What is found in carnivore scat is never proof of predation. So - Why are the tiger fans treating this story as an accepted case of a tiger killing a full-grown male brown bear?
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