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Post by Granolah on Apr 9, 2023 19:04:37 GMT -5
———————————————————— ***Human fears are easy to understand. A scientific expedition that worked in the Far East, studying the habits of the Ussuri tiger, and then drove to Mariinsk, claimed that a brown bear could easily cope with a tiger. And Viktor Kirpichnikov himself recalled a tragic incident that happened before his eyes with one of the local hunters who crossed the path of a brown bear in the taiga. The owner of the taiga patted him several times with his paws, and then the remains of that person were poured into a bag. It was impossible to fold the bones, the powder remained from them.*** www.google.com/amp/s/kuzbass.aif.ru/amp/archive/1784063“Scientific expedition” Amur tiger centre? Progamme?
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Post by brobear on Apr 10, 2023 9:07:10 GMT -5
ABOUT A MALE BROWN BEAR FOUND DEAD IN A NATURE RESERVE IN THE KHABAROVSKY KRAI IN NOVEMBER 2022. Facts and seeking the truth vs favoritism. What is it about book-length posts that so many tiger fans believe makes their posts more believable. There is no need for a conglomeration. What happened in Khabarovsky Krai in November? Nothing out of the ordinary. A large male tiger, possibly 'Odyr', after (according to tiger fans) a prolonged fight, managed to kill a three-year-old adolescent male brown bear named, 'Misha’. This is the normal size and age range of brown bears hunted, ambushed, and killed by tigers. _________________________________________ Seriously, before *any tiger fan starts cheering for the tiger who fights and kills a full-grown male brown bear (fake professors included), first come up with the official biologist report, the actual study, showing that your conclusions have been confirmed. It seems like every time a dead bear is found in the woods, the tiger fans start screaming, "Mighty Tiger Destroys Huge Male Brown Bear!" -Please; wait for the confirmation.
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Post by brobear on Apr 26, 2023 4:57:57 GMT -5
Please; don't anyone post on this topic as I have more to add; after the research. It shouldn't take no more than from 6 to 10 weeks. After that, please feel free to post here. ____________ Just kidding' LOL! I'm not all that arrogant
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Post by brobear on May 4, 2023 12:40:50 GMT -5
ABOUT A MALE BROWN BEAR FOUND DEAD IN A NATURE RESERVE IN THE KHABAROVSKY KRAI IN NOVEMBER 2022. Facts and seeking the truth vs favoritism. What is it about book-length posts that so many tiger fans believe makes their posts more believable. There is no need for a conglomeration. What happened in Khabarovsky Krai in November? Nothing out of the ordinary. A large male tiger, possibly 'Odyr', after (according to tiger fans) a prolonged fight, managed to kill a three-year-old adolescent male brown bear named, 'Misha’. This is the normal size and age range of brown bears hunted, ambushed, and killed by tigers. _________________________________________ Seriously, before *any tiger fan starts cheering for the tiger who fights and kills a full-grown male brown bear (fake professors included), first come up with the official biologist report, the actual study, showing that your conclusions have been confirmed. It seems like every time a dead bear is found in the woods, the tiger fans start screaming, "Mighty Tiger Destroys Huge Male Brown Bear!" -Please; wait for the confirmation. Some time after this report had surfaced in a Russian newspaper, one of our guys contacted Dale Miquelle and asked him if he knew of any incident of an adult male brown bear ever being killed by a tiger. His answer was a flat NO. A quarter-mile-length post does not change these facts.
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Post by brobear on May 5, 2023 4:24:46 GMT -5
Quote; "Biologist Bromlei found the partially eaten carcass of a 170 kg adult brown bear that was killed and eaten by a tigress. The bear was significantly heavier than its killer." Quote, "In the beginning of May 1951 on the bank of Tatibe River (Iman tributary) based on the cry of crows was possible to find the brown bear (length of 158 cm, the weight of approximately 170 kg), slaughtered by a tigress. All the fatty body parts proved to be eaten: back, hams and the accumulation of fat in the inguinal region. Within 10 m besides the eaten corpse were the excrements, urinary trails, even three lairs of the tigress, that was being held here for approximately 3-4 days." *False Information. Neither the tigress nor the bear were weighed. 170kg = 374.79 pounds. Average fully-grown female Ussuri brown bear (7 years+) - 415 pounds. Even if this bear did weigh 375 pounds, it was either a very small adult she-bear or (most likely) an adolescent bear of either sex. But, as neither the tigress nor the bear were weighed, this story is unconfirmed. As a matter of fact, it cannot be confirmed that the half-eaten bear was killed by a tiger. Every time a tiger is found feeding on the carcass of a bear, bear fans automatically assume that the bear was killed by the tiger. Biologists are not innocent. If this were a good science practice, then bear fans could declare large numbers of bison and whales killed by bears. However, even if this adolescent bear was killed by a tigress; so what? A large adult tigress kills a fat adolescent bear. Something to brag about? But; bottom line, everything about this tale remains unconfirmed.
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Post by brobear on May 5, 2023 4:34:44 GMT -5
Amur Tiger Center states:
Quote; "In the Khingan Reserve in the Amur Region, a brown bear decided to sleep, but something constantly interfered with him. This was in August 2022. It is possible that he can’t sleep because he's thinking about a Amur tiger walking somewhere nearby. Or he remembered some very berry-filled place and thinks that he needs to get there before his competitors. There are many options that could discourage the bear from sleeping." *Truth; a tiger in the woods is the least likely reason for the bear being restless.
Quote; "As to adult bears being hunted, the evidence, field observations made by various biologists and kill-sites confirm that tigers successfully prey on the largest and healthiest adult female brown bears, the largest male black bears, and at times, even large male brown bears are hunted and killed." *Truth; Tigers and brown bears have been living within the Russian taiga for for roughly one-million years, yet we have absolutely no confirmed case of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear. It simply doesn't happen. Every bear ambushed and killed by a tiger is smaller than the tiger himself.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 6, 2023 0:59:57 GMT -5
When looking at the relationship between sloth bears and tigers over India where tigers are extremely cautious and show tremendous respect to sloth bears when approaching them, it kind of seems a bit alarming that people on the internet think a tiger could walk up to a large male grizzly and kill it. I mean if that ever happens, every person with a common sense will know exactly that the cat took advantage of certain factors. Let's say a 20y/o male Ussuri brown bear gets beaten off from food sources by fresher and younger rivals. He hasn't put on enough mass to get through the winter and wanders around looking for food. As he is an old bear and in poor shape, he'll lose weight more and more. Now at this point the bear is practically at his worst and at the verge of death. So why wouldn't a tiger take advantage of that? If he does, fine, he killed a male brown bear and his paws would still be "large" despite the poor condition. But that doesn't change the fact that a fully grown male brown bear in his prime would beat up a tiger 99.9999% of the time.
The wilderness is no arena; every predation that happens includes unfair elements from start to finish. Predators are smart and designed towards sensing weakness and when that's the case, they'll strike. But when that's not the case, they'll just leave it and run. This is why I am not particularly interested in those discussions anymore. If you want to use predation accounts as evidence, the account must describe the entire event from start to finish. It must basically look like a perfectly reconstructed crime. If that's not the case and a variety of unknowns up for interpretation still exist, it doesn't make sense pointlessly assuming things that are completely out of order.
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Post by brobear on May 6, 2023 4:19:11 GMT -5
When looking at the relationship between sloth bears and tigers over India where tigers are extremely cautious and show tremendous respect to sloth bears when approaching them, it kind of seems a bit alarming that people on the internet think a tiger could walk up to a large male grizzly and kill it. I mean if that ever happens, every person with a common sense will know exactly that the cat took advantage of certain factors. Let's say a 20y/o male Ussuri brown bear gets beaten off from food sources by fresher and younger rivals. He hasn't put on enough mass to get through the winter and wanders around looking for food. As he is an old bear and in poor shape, he'll lose weight more and more. Now at this point the bear is practically at his worst and at the verge of death. So why wouldn't a tiger take advantage of that? If he does, fine, he killed a male brown bear and his paws would still be "large" despite the poor condition. But that doesn't change the fact that a fully grown male brown bear in his prime would beat up a tiger 99.9999% of the time. The wilderness is no arena; every predation that happens includes unfair elements from start to finish. Predators are smart and designed towards sensing weakness and when that's the case, they'll strike. But when that's not the case, they'll just leave it and run. This is why I am not particularly interested in those discussions anymore. If you want to use predation accounts as evidence, the account must describe the entire event from start to finish. It must basically look like a perfectly reconstructed crime. If that's not the case and a variety of unknowns up for interpretation still exist, it doesn't make sense pointlessly assuming things that are completely out of order. Well put analysis.
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Post by brobear on May 15, 2023 8:27:18 GMT -5
Quote; "'Domain of the bears' more or less compares. An extra attraction is they know all about jumping to conclusions." *Note; I can honestly say, it isn't the bear fans who automatically assume that the carcass that a bear is found feeding on was killed by said bear. We never do that. However, tiger fans do exactly that, be it bear, bull gaur, rhinoceros, or anything else. They cannot fathom the idea that a tiger might occasionally find a carcass. The tiger fans of WF have a list of full-grown adult male brown bears killed by tigers, even though Dale Miquelle still says that there does not exist even one single confirmed case. _____________________________________________
Tiger vs Brown Bear - 21st century. Any news since Jan.#1, 2000.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 16, 2023 7:35:19 GMT -5
Brobear, I believe you posted this on the Domain somewhere on this thread and on Carnivora. I also believe you said 5 year old males are included but there is nowhere I can find it.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2023 10:02:18 GMT -5
Quote; "Brobear, I believe you posted this on the Domain somewhere on this thread and on Carnivora. I also believe you said 5 year old males are included but there is nowhere I can find it." *You don't have to find it. When biologist conduct a study on bears in any given location, sexually mature bears are listed as "adult" bears. That is like listing 12 and 13 year old boys as grown men. Average fully-grown male Ussuri brown bear ( 10 years+) - 657 pounds.
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Post by brobear on May 18, 2023 23:28:13 GMT -5
Quote; "'Domain of the bears' more or less compares. An extra attraction is they know all about jumping to conclusions." *Note; I can honestly say, it isn't the bear fans who automatically assume that the carcass that a bear is found feeding on was killed by said bear. We never do that. However, tiger fans do exactly that, be it bear, bull gaur, rhinoceros, or anything else. They cannot fathom the idea that a tiger might occasionally find a carcass. The tiger fans of WF have a list of full-grown adult male brown bears killed by tigers, even though Dale Miquelle still says that there does not exist even one single confirmed case. _____________________________________________ Tiger vs Brown Bear - 21st century. Any news since Jan.#1, 2000. *There is no evidence to support anyone's opinion that a tiger can kill a full-grown male brown bear. It doesn't matter whose opinion it is nor what his profession is. Such a thing has never been witnessed and such an event has never been confirmed. Therefore, it's an ignorant and very stupid opinion.
There is no confirmed account of this ever happening under any cirumstances. Yet; incredibly, this lie never dies in the tiger fanboy playgrounds. Even their elite fake-professors approve of and push the lie.
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Post by brobear on May 20, 2023 6:07:57 GMT -5
The tiger vs brown bear debate ended decades ago. I have been in the receiving end of the heat of their ongoing lies for over 23 years now. They know that they are wrong, but they are unable to man-up to the truth. There is not even one single big cat-dominated forum online that is truthful and honest concerning big cats and bears. Their lies will continue on and on for decades to come. I'm done with this subject. I leave knowing far beyond the shadow of any doubts that the full-grown male Ussuri brown bear has nothing to fear from a tiger. One-on-one, no lion or tiger can best him. ~brobear; amateur bear expert retired.
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Post by Montezuma on May 20, 2023 20:56:25 GMT -5
Though i am 3 or 4 years old only to these forums and debates yet i have learned a lot that foolishness and ignorance is a thing that would remain in fanboys till the last end. However, that does not bother me since its a universal reality that 'dishonesty and ignorance' are the things that would last until the Earth's fatality and the day of ressurection, its unstoppable; the thing, that is the most important to me actually is that i have been convinced, through debates and true information, that an average Lion or Tiger would almost always lose to an average Brown bear or Polar bear; lions were totally dominated by brown bears in roman arenas and by cave bear in prehistoric wild. The tiger is also a subordinate carnivore to the Ussuri brown bear. I put my honest satisfication above all these stupidity and continunity.
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Post by Granolah on May 23, 2023 16:53:33 GMT -5
There are just some fanatics who simply cannot be convinced. It’s a waste of time.
I’m gonna quote Solo Hunter (talked to him a year ago on YT, asked him why he quit), “Some people doesn't snap out of it, but like when you look back this is all kind of pointless. What are we, convincing ourselves? Preaching? Like there's no point in debating. No point in preaching. When I accidentally fall into an enclosure, a tiger won't think twice about killing me or ML. Same for all other dangerous animals. Nothing we type here changes reality, and fate is unpredictable.” I agree.
You pretty much subconsciously learn to hate the animals you’re debating against.
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Post by yz on May 26, 2023 13:25:28 GMT -5
I assume you may have already answered this question but what's your thought on tiger fans quoting rangers, and experts stating that tigers would win against brown bears and that their opinions aren't to be dismissed given their experience and observations for several years ? theundertaker45 I would like to know your take on this
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Post by Montezuma on May 26, 2023 19:37:44 GMT -5
I assume you may have already answered this question but what's your thought on tiger fans quoting rangers, and experts stating that tigers would win against brown bears and that their opinions aren't to be dismissed given their experience and observations for several years ? theundertaker45 I would like to know your take on this Here is my opinion. The very first thing to remember us that tigerfans are very hyprocrites. They distort statements and facts. Many quotes from experts are being reffered to smaller bears being killed in ambush attack which they show as adult bears in fair fights. Furthermore, there exists a great controversy amongst experts too. Some favour bear and some tiger, however, per numbers, i see bear is more favoured. Our understanding and logic counts too as we have to decide in the light of true facts that which experienced experts is more reliable as controversy exists among experts as well. Populism and favourism counts too . Experts and literature can overrate facts too. Remember what Krechmar said? Quoting Sergey Amraliev's saying, he said, "i don't even think its based on facts". Krechmar refutes the saying of sergey, well experienced biologist, as unfactual. So even an experienced expert's opinion isn't the word of infallibility.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 4, 2023 16:43:17 GMT -5
www.todaykhv.ru/news/incident/9372/This link is credited to Warsaw. If you guys look at the video comparison, Rachel is pretty small in comparison to Ockarik. Therefore, if Chamlid is 2 to 3 times the weight of Rachel, it is unlikely Chamlid is much bigger than the bespectacled male tiger.
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Post by brobear on Jun 4, 2023 23:54:45 GMT -5
www.todaykhv.ru/news/incident/9372/This link is credited to Warsaw. If you guys look at the video comparison, Rachel is pretty small in comparison to Ockarik. Therefore, if Chamlid is 2 to 3 times the weight of Rachel, it is unlikely Chamlid is much bigger than the bespectacled male tiger. Quote; "And at the moment, the bear (we gave him the nickname Chlamyda, because he is incredibly huge) has moved away from her and is not chasing her, - Alexander Batalov, director of the Durminskoye forestry, told the correspondent of the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency ." Incredibly Huge! The "tiger who wears eye glasses" might be a big tiger; but they don't come this big.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 5, 2023 3:03:17 GMT -5
/\ The tiger in the picture above is Rachel, the tigress.
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