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Post by brobear on Oct 20, 2020 15:28:24 GMT -5
You know; in giving the polar bear some deep thought, it seems surreal that the polar bear can live the life that he does. I mean, think about it. A group of brown bears had wondered way up north and became stranded there by a wall of ice preventing them from returning southward. These brown bears, no different from a European brown bear or a Rocky Mountain grizzly, learned to hunt seals ( which live in that super-cold arctic ocean ) and to hitch rides on the ice flows. Seriously! Is this not incredible? What other land-based predator could have survived and adapted to this pure-arctic environment other than the brown bear; to evolve into the incredible polar bear? A land-based omnivore having to learn overnight how to hunt aquatic mammals that live in the sea. And I also have to wonder, during the Ice Age, was it even colder in the high arctic than today?
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 20, 2020 16:11:12 GMT -5
Knowing that it was an ice age, than yes, i would have to think it was colder back than.
The temperature on the surface of the Greenland ice sheet during the "Last Glacial Maximum" (LGM), Older Dryas, Bølling-Allerød and Younger Dryas. Time progresses from right to left.
www.dandebat.dk/eng-klima6.htm
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 22, 2020 0:11:45 GMT -5
In 5:05 to 5:10, a male polar bear can pull a 600 pound seal from its breathing hole. This shows a male polar bear can drag around a male Amur tiger like a ragdoll.
A female polar bear will definately be a closer match up.
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Post by brobear on Nov 8, 2020 1:29:30 GMT -5
Well, over at Carnivora, they finally locked down "Siberian Tiger vs Polar Bear" just as we did... after 48 pages. Their final score: Bear 67 - Cat 17. ( This is 17 posters some of which are "animal uneducated" but most are simply juvenile fanboys unwilling to man-up to reality ). And; just like us, they still have Siberian Tiger vs Polar Bear ( sow ). Posters find Amur tiger vs polar bear sow to be less exciting, or perhaps less meaningful, but at least it is debatable.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 9, 2020 0:13:47 GMT -5
On record, we have "Dale" the 445 lb adult male tiger that had trouble with 2 adult female brown bears. In a well known fight, Dale killed a 440 lb (max weight estimated) female brown bear in a 20 minute fight after the bear was ambushed and most likely injured already. In another face to face caught on camera, a dominant male Bengal tiger failed to kill a much smaller female sloth bear. Now imagine these same tigers fighing with a female polar bear that averages 485 lbs. I still believe its 6/10 for the sow.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 9, 2020 1:35:01 GMT -5
The Siberian tiger has got one vote here.
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Post by brobear on Nov 9, 2020 1:41:05 GMT -5
The Siberian tiger has got one vote here. Everyone entitled to his own imagination Realistically, a tiger would have to be in a situation of terrible desperation to fight with a bear bigger than himself - even to ambush such a bear. Ether that, or the tiger finds himself cornered or trapped with the bear with no escape.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 9, 2020 1:52:47 GMT -5
Even an average female polar bear is heavier than a male Siberian tiger.
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Post by brobear on Nov 10, 2020 15:35:50 GMT -5
The polar she-bear has ( on average ) a 65-pound weight advantage. No tiger has ever been recorded killing a bear his own size or bigger ( this includes she-bears ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 10, 2020 15:45:33 GMT -5
I wonder who voted for the Siberian tiger in this forum? Its debatable.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 10, 2020 4:57:38 GMT -5
I wonder who voted for the Siberian tiger in this forum? Its debatable. I wonder too. Now regarding to 50% fat for polar bears, that applies to pregnant females that reach 1000 pounds. Sadly a lot of the sources available are not specific on this but I believe we can use common sense 😉.
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Post by brobear on Dec 10, 2020 5:14:56 GMT -5
I wonder who voted for the Siberian tiger in this forum? Its debatable. When its a bear vs big cat at near-weight-parity, there are many who will wager on the cat; even among bear enthusiasts. Each to his own opinion
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 10, 2020 5:55:12 GMT -5
At least most big cat enthusiast and fans agree with us that the larger bear will win which is fair enough in my opinion.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 10, 2020 6:14:03 GMT -5
I wonder who voted for the Siberian tiger in this forum? Its debatable. When its a bear vs big cat at near-weight-parity, there are many who will wager on the cat; even among bear enthusiasts. Each to his own opinion This is because most brown bears at weight parity with a cat would be subadults or females.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 10, 2020 6:20:51 GMT -5
When its a bear vs big cat at near-weight-parity, there are many who will wager on the cat; even among bear enthusiasts. Each to his own opinion This is because most brown bears at weight parity with a cat would be subadults or females. True. I support male brown bears at parity over big cats 5.5 to 7/10 (it depending on which big cat it is against). Females and subadults will lose slightly but it’s almost 50/50 in my opinion.
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Post by brobear on Dec 10, 2020 6:27:01 GMT -5
When its a bear vs big cat at near-weight-parity, there are many who will wager on the cat; even among bear enthusiasts. Each to his own opinion This is because most brown bears at weight parity with a cat would be subadults or females. No King Kodiak. Unless you're talking about brown bears in Russia vs Amur tigers. In face-off topics when someone posts something like "Lion vs Grizzly" it usually ends-up a weight-parity face-off. This means two full-grown predators going head-to-head. Back in the "Old AVA" days ( for years and years ) it was stated over-and-over, "a bear needs a substantial size advantage to defeat a big cat." This was said so often that for a time; I believed it. In Russia, it could mean 400-pound moon bear vs 400-pound tiger.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 10, 2020 6:28:22 GMT -5
Male polar bears are too large and powerful for even the most powerful extinct big cat (which has stronger forelimbs than the most powerful extant big cat). However, a smaller than average male polar bear might overlap in weight with an exceptionally large smilodon populator or American lion.
Even then the male polar bear will still bear the smilodon populator and American lion at parity in my opinion due to its better grappling abilities and being a plantigrade will hit harder.
Female polar bears will lose more often than not to these male extinct cats.
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Post by brobear on Dec 10, 2020 6:30:36 GMT -5
Male polar bears are too large and powerful for even the most powerful extinct big cat (which has stronger forelimbs than the most powerful extant big cat). However, a smaller than average male polar bear might overlap in weight with an exceptionally large smilodon populator or American lion. Even then the male polar bear will still bear the smilodon populator and American lion at parity in my opinion due to its better grappling abilities and being a plantigrade will hit harder. Female polar bears will lose more often than not to these male extinct cats. Why would anyone in a polar bear vs Smilodon debate even consider a "smaller than average bear"?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 10, 2020 6:34:06 GMT -5
Male polar bears are too large and powerful for even the most powerful extinct big cat (which has stronger forelimbs than the most powerful extant big cat). However, a smaller than average male polar bear might overlap in weight with an exceptionally large smilodon populator or American lion. Even then the male polar bear will still bear the smilodon populator and American lion at parity in my opinion due to its better grappling abilities and being a plantigrade will hit harder. Female polar bears will lose more often than not to these male extinct cats. Why would anyone in a polar bear vs Smilodon debate even consider a "smaller than average bear"? I was just pointing out the only way a weight parity match between a male polar bear and an extinct big cat. However, overall it is a mismatch. We agree a male polar bear is too big and strong for a smilodon populator. Exceptionally large male smilodons reach 900 pounds (rare). The average male polar bear is still heavier and stronger than an exceptionally large male smilodon populator.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 10, 2020 6:37:05 GMT -5
This is because most brown bears at weight parity with a cat would be subadults or females. No King Kodiak. Unless you're talking about brown bears in Russia vs Amur tigers. In face-off topics when someone posts something like "Lion vs Grizzly" it usually ends-up a weight-parity face-off. This means two full-grown predators going head-to-head. Back in the "Old AVA" days ( for years and years ) it was stated over-and-over, "a bear needs a substantial size advantage to defeat a big cat." This was said so often that for a time; I believed it. In Russia, it could mean 400-pound moon bear vs 400-pound tiger. What do you mean no? Yes, most brown bears at weight parity with adult male tigers/lions would be subadults or females. Kodiak, Alaskan Peninsula, Kamchatka, Carpathian, Ussuri, even most Yellowstone grizzlies. All of these subspecies, the males under 450 lbs are all subadults. This is why the cat is favored.
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