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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2020 3:00:23 GMT -5
The tiger fanboys are grasping at straws. A tiger ambushes and kills a juvenile bear - they stretch the truth and celebrate a false victory. A tiger ambushes and kills an adult she-bear - they whoop and holler about the tiger that killed a huge full-grown bear. They always talk as if an ambush kill is the same thing as a face-off fight. They continue to claim that a tiger can defeat a full-grown male brown bear - even though they know there is no evidence of it ever happening - and even though they know that even a female sloth bear only half the weight of a tiger will most often successfully defend herself and survive a face-off against a tiger. They are ridiculous.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Nov 13, 2020 3:22:44 GMT -5
King Kodiak Regarding Reply #86; male bears reach full size in their body measurements at ~9y of age but even then they haven't reached their prime. Yellowstone grizzlies accumulate weight until they are 15y old which would mean that this would roughly be the age of a male grizzly having achieved his full potential. So all in all, if you compare the same male bear at the age of 9 and at the age of 15, it is very likely they'll be the same height/length but the older bear will be bulkier having a larger arm/belly/chest/neck girth.
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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2020 3:28:14 GMT -5
Reply 2335. A three year old Ussuri brown bear is considered an adult only because it is independent and left its mother not because it is fully grown. A two year old tiger has reached sexual maturity something a bear at similar age or slightly older has not. A three year old brown bear just became a subadult, that is when they leave their mothers.
0 to 2.5 years-cub. 2.5 to 5 years-subadult. 5 to 8 years-adult but not fully grown. 9+ years-adult and fully grown.And according to several biologists on page #1 - Reply #13 - senior bears (15+)
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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2020 3:33:10 GMT -5
King Kodiak Regarding Reply #86; male bears reach full size in their body measurements at ~9y of age but even then they haven't reached their prime. Yellowstone grizzlies accumulate weight until they are 15y old which would mean that this would roughly be the age of a male grizzly having achieved his full potential. So all in all, if you compare the same male bear at the age of 9 and at the age of 15, it is very likely they'll be the same height/length but the older bear will be bulkier having a larger arm/belly/chest/neck girth. Polar produced a study showing that those big "senior" bears from 15 to 20 are stronger than the younger adults.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Nov 13, 2020 3:35:00 GMT -5
brobearFrom what I've seen I wouldn't set the mark at 15y for seniors. "Scarface" and "Van" were in their prime at this age, a brown bear is really old when approaching his 20s imo; especially the Yellowstone grizzlies are at their best condition at ~15y of age.
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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2020 4:57:26 GMT -5
I copied this from Wildfact - Bear Strength post #32: Muscular Structure and Morphology in Bears - Document II .pdf You have to be signed-in at Wildfact to view or copy. Since I was knocked-off internet ( again ) a while beack, I have been unable to log in at Wildfact ( again ). Anyway... interesting info there.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 13, 2020 9:17:45 GMT -5
King Kodiak Regarding Reply #86; male bears reach full size in their body measurements at ~9y of age but even then they haven't reached their prime. Yellowstone grizzlies accumulate weight until they are 15y old which would mean that this would roughly be the age of a male grizzly having achieved his full potential. So all in all, if you compare the same male bear at the age of 9 and at the age of 15, it is very likely they'll be the same height/length but the older bear will be bulkier having a larger arm/belly/chest/neck girth. Yeah, what you say is 100% accurate. But reply #86 just talks about how Ussuri brown bears weight more on average than Hokkaido brown bears.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Nov 13, 2020 9:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 13, 2020 9:26:55 GMT -5
Oh ok....well yeah, i agree with you.
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 6:18:53 GMT -5
From all i have read, this is basically the way it is for brown bears:
From 0 to 2.5 years-cub From 2.5 to 5 years-subadult From 5 to 9 years-adult but not fully grown From 9 years and up-adult and fully grown.
This sounds good, but here's the problem. An Amur tiger ambushes and kills a 6-year-old male brown bear ( 300-pounds ). Do we then announce that an adult male brown bear was killed by a tiger? Here in America, a boy is not ( legally ) considered as an adult until the age of 21 years. Probably the equivalent of a bear 8 or 9 years old. Some people consider the age of 18 as the age of a boy becoming a man. Thus perhaps a bear of 7 or 8 years old. So, at what age do we call a brown bear - ADULT?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 26, 2020 7:32:47 GMT -5
In Australia, you are considered an adult at 18.
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 7:38:32 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 7:40:00 GMT -5
My thoughts ( for male brown bear ): 0 to 3 = cub. 4 to 5 = juvenile. 6 to 8 = subadult. 9 and up = full-grown adult boar.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 26, 2020 8:46:00 GMT -5
Yes, officially, it would have killed an adult, but not fully grown, that's the thing.
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 8:53:50 GMT -5
Yes, officially, it would have killed an adult, but not fully grown, that's the thing. Doug Peacock; probably the world's best authority on the grizzly referred to an 8-year-old bear as "subadult". I will stick with this - My thoughts ( for male brown bear ): 0 to 3 = cub. 4 to 5 = juvenile. 6 to 8 = subadult. 9 and up = full-grown adult boar.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 26, 2020 8:59:11 GMT -5
Why did i know that Doug Peacock was coming? Ha ha ha. Yes, of course, i have the book. I am pretty sure he was just making a "general statement", he probably meant subadult weightwise, not maturewise. Everyone knows that officially, a 5 year old brown bear is already considered an "adult".
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 9:07:56 GMT -5
Why did i know that Doug Peacock was coming? Ha ha ha. Yes, of course, i have the book. I am pretty sure he was just making a "general statement", he probably meant subadult weightwise, not maturewise. Everyone knows that officially, a 5 year old brown bear is already considered an "adult". Doug Seus considers only 10-year-old and up as adult grizzlies. He firmly stated this. But I can sway to 9. In reality; its simply a matter of perspective. Some people consider 16 and 17 year old boys as grown men and treat them as such. I consider them boys. We can agree to disagree if you like; but when a male brown bear, below the age of 9 is killed by a tiger, I will not claim that the tiger killed an adult male brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 9:09:26 GMT -5
Reply #109 - IF you consider a 5-year-old as an adult; then you consider a 10-year-old boy as being a grown man.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 26, 2020 9:11:55 GMT -5
Here Peter explains it perfectly:
Based on everything I read, I'd say that one has to distinguish between young adults (5-8), adults (9-12), mature adults (13-18) and old adults (> 18) in large brown bear subspecies like Kodiak bears. At the level of averages, the difference between the age groups is considerable. Like tigers, brown bears seem to keep on growing nearly all their life. Skulls of old bears nearly always are larger and heavier than those of younger individuals.
wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=63969#pid63969
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Post by brobear on Nov 26, 2020 9:20:00 GMT -5
OK; we're getting closer to an agreement. 5-8 young adult bears = 10-17 young adult men. A better word to use here is juvenile or subadult. Thus avoiding ignorant arguments with fanboys. There is also a big difference between a 5-year-old bear and an 8-year-old bear. Thus I say: 4 to 5 = juvenile. and 6 to 8 = subadult.
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