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Post by theundertaker45 on Aug 24, 2020 6:44:41 GMT -5
brobear I get your point; unfortunately there is very limited data on the growth rate of big cats. The only work that comes into my mind is some extensive study on the comparative growth rates of female and male lions (I don't know the precise study however); I briefly read through the abstract a few months ago and their studies implied that male lions usually reach their physical prime (that's related to their body weight through the years) at ~7y of age with a gradually declining trend afterwards. Comparing it with the study on Yellowstone grizzlies who reach their physical prime at ~15y of age, one can definitely say that big cats should usually achieve "prime status" way earlier. If one thinks logically, it will only make sense as their overall life span is shorter too. Example: A 3 year old lion will most likely be closer to his prime body weight than a 3 year old brown bear from a relative standpoint of view. A 7 year old lion has achieved his "prime status" whereas a 7 year old brown bear isn't even fully grown yet (most of the time ofc, there always are exceptions). Edit: I found the abstract of the work I mentioned; you can find it here: www.researchgate.net/publication/230290401_Comparative_growth_of_wild_male_and_female_lions_Panthera_led"Lions tended to continue growing up to about seven years in males and nine to 10 years in females after which they usually started to lose condition."
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 6:59:51 GMT -5
Thank you theundertaker45. You could have chosen the "handle" 'Sir Galahad' and it would have been fitting for you. *My thoughts are, the average wight of an adult tiger ( 4 to 7 years old ) would likely be little different from the average of all-6 to 8 year olds. *According to same scenario on brown bears ( 5 to 15 year olds vs 9 to 15 year olds ) there would be a greater difference made.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Aug 24, 2020 7:53:56 GMT -5
Big cats develop into adulthood and reach sexual maturity faster but bears grow and live longer. Another difference male cats seem to reach puberty or develop faster than females whereas female bears reach sexual maturity faster than their male counterparts but males grow much longer.
The way bears grow are more like us humans.
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 8:34:20 GMT -5
Big cats develop into adulthood and reach sexual maturity faster but bears grow and live longer. Another difference male cats seem to reach puberty or develop faster than females whereas female bears reach sexual maturity faster than their male counterparts but males grow much longer. The way bears grow are more like us humans. I've searched; but no "growth chart for lion or tiger" found. ( yet )
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 8:48:18 GMT -5
Video with a misleading title posted on youtube by a lion fanboy. Title reads: "Male Lion And Brown Bear Fighting For Food | Lion vs Bear". In the old AVA back in 2010, the truth was revealed. The Hokkaido brown bears and the Africa lions were placed together in this Japanese Zoo. The video was filmed a short time before the animals were separated. These sub-adult bears, the same age in years with the fully-adult and mature lions, still have much growing left to do; as well as reaching adult maturity. These animals are somewhere between 5 and 7 years old.
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 8:56:36 GMT -5
Hokkaido brown bear: full-grown male.
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 9:03:03 GMT -5
Hokkaido bears are closely linked to the Ussuri bears of Russia, but maybe even bigger.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Aug 24, 2020 9:51:46 GMT -5
Reply 51. These subadult Japanese brown bears did well. That is right, Japanese brown bears are larger versions of the Ussuri brown bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 24, 2020 10:14:10 GMT -5
Reply 51. These subadult Japanese brown bears did well. That is right, Japanese brown bears are larger versions of the Ussuri brown bear. No, the Ussuri brown bear is larger both at averages and at max. 7 adult males from Eastern Hokkaido weighted 192 kg (423 lbs).
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/297/hokkaido-brown-bear
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2020 10:25:17 GMT -5
It was told in AVA that roughly at the time of this video, it was decided that it was time to separate the animals. A mature brown bear normally loses his cub-like playfulness soon after reaching "full-maturity". After that, there would be blood-loss between the bears and the lions.
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2020 18:35:40 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/thread/538/north-american-interior-grizzly-bears "Blanchard (in press) found that in Yellowstone National Park, male grizzlies were consistently heavier than females for all age classes except cubs and yearlings. Sexual dimorphism beginning at age 2 was also apparent in other study areas (Troyer and Hensel 1969, Pearson 1975). Males in Yellowstone steadily gained weight until at least 15 years, but the mean annual rate of weight increase for males aged 4-15 (5.6%) was much less than the rate for cubs through 3 years (42.1%). The mean weight of adult males was 29% greater than for females and body measurements were 8-17% greater. Males attained full size in 7 of 11 body measurements by age 6 and in all 11 by age 9." SOURCE: Grizzly Bear Compendium (1987) by the Inter agency Grizzly Bear Committee.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 27, 2020 20:45:50 GMT -5
This here is great proof that to get the average weight of full grown male brown bears, you only need to calculate the 9+ year old bears. Because sure, 7 of 11 attained full size by age 6, but not all, so if you have 6-8 year old bears, some of them might not be full grown, thus, that would give you a lower average weight. But by age 9, the 11 brown bears all attained full size, so that is correct. Only 9+ year old brown bears should be counted.
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Post by brobear on Oct 3, 2020 15:55:24 GMT -5
A brown bear will continue to gain weight in muscle mass from 9 years old up until he is about 15 years old and sometimes even beyond this age. Your biggest bear, the dominant boar, is normally from about 12 upwards to about 20 years old. Yes, I agree. No bear below the age of 9 should ever be within the averaging of brown bear size.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 8, 2020 20:24:48 GMT -5
Reply 50. The link Undertaker posted in reply 47 seems to confirm that male big cats develop faster than their female counterparts. Anyway we know that bears live longer and take even longer to reach adulthood.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 14, 2020 22:48:10 GMT -5
World's Oldest Brown Bear Dies in St. Petersburg Zoo
Varvara, the world's oldest brown bear — a mother of 29 bears — died at the St. Petersburg Zoo on Tuesday at the age of 35, caretakers said. The bear matriarch lived almost twice the lifespan of free-range brown bears, which average 15 to 20 years in the wild, the zoo said on its Vkontakte social network. The report did not specify the cause of death or when Varvara would be buried. The ursid, a favorite among visitors, had a flashy birthday party thrown for her in June, Interfax said earlier. She was already ailing at the time and spent most of her day resting, but still showed a healthy appetite for fruit, salmon and rabbit, the report said. Varvara was an aspirant to the title of the oldest brown bear kept in captivity — her age at the time of death roughly the equivalent of 150 years for humans. But she was not the all-time record holder on longevity among brown bears, known to have lived to up to 48 years in human care. Varvara qualified for the title of world's oldest living brown bear after another Russian bear, Tikhon, died in the Penza Zoo in central Russia shortly before his 36th birthday. www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/10/22/worlds-oldest-brown-bear-dies-in-st-petersburg-zoo-a40662
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Post by brobear on Nov 1, 2020 0:56:34 GMT -5
The northern interior grizzly bear Ursus arctos L. by Arthur M. Pearson.
Age determination: Previous authors have all referred to a change in the thickness of the annular zones which occurred at various ages in the specimens they studied. Craighead ( 1970 ) found that the narrower zones occurred first at 5 years of age. Similar timing was found by Mundy and Fuller ( 1964 ). On the other hand, Rausch ( 1969 ) found, in brown bears from Alaska, that the change in the thickness of the zones did not occur until the 8th or 9th year. In the Yukon, I found that the change in the thickness of the cemental zones was not a consistent feature but in no case did it occur before the 8th year. In some cases, the change did not occur until the 11th or 12th year. It is quite possible that the change in thickness of annulation is in some way related to the sexual maturity and/or growth patterns of the animal, because grizzlies do not reach sexual maturity as early in the north as they do in the south. However, this change in thickness is a definite feature of the cementum pattern in grizzly bear teeth, whatever its reason. In many cases it was quite easy to distinguish annular rings up to and including the change, but afterwards the annulations became very narrow and sometimes obscured. ...From a subjective inspection of the male sample, it appears that a break in the growth curve occurred at about 10 years of age. Therefore the male sample was divided into those 10 years and younger, and those over 10 years. *Note: those under 10 years old ( adolescent ) and those 10 years old and up ( mature adults ). I will add also that Doug Peacock and numerous other "experts" from my reading agree that the age of 10 is the separation age of adult male brown bear from adolescent male brown bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 3, 2020 15:42:21 GMT -5
Here Peter explains it perfectly:
Based on everything I read, I'd say that one has to distinguish between young adults (5-8), adults (9-12), mature adults (13-18) and old adults (> 18) in large brown bear subspecies like Kodiak bears. At the level of averages, the difference between the age groups is considerable. Like tigers, brown bears seem to keep on growing nearly all their life. Skulls of old bears nearly always are larger and heavier than those of younger individuals.
wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=63969#pid63969
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 12, 2020 19:36:34 GMT -5
Female brownies mature sexually between the age of 4 and 8 years of age, with an average age at sexual maturity of 5.2–5.5 years old, while males first mate about a year later on average, when they are large and strong enough to successfully compete with other males for mating rights, so a brownie that's 2–3 years old isn't fully grown, whoops: * Pearson, A. M. (1975). The northern interior grizzly bear Ursus arctos L. Information Canada. * Craighead, J. J., Sumner, J. S., & Mitchell, J. A. (1995). "The grizzly bears of Yellowstone: their ecology in the Yellowstone ecosystem, 1959–1992". Island Press. * White, D.J.; Berardinelli, J.G.; Aune, K.E. (1998). "Reproductive characteristics of the male grizzly bear in the continental United States". Ursus. 10: 497–501: www.jstor.org/stable/3873161carnivora.net/siberian-tiger-v-ussuri-brown-bear-t8294-s2535.html#p143268Ligersrule posted it on Carnivora. Male bears become sexually mature before they reach full size.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2020 20:46:26 GMT -5
From reply #28:
Male grizzly bears:
"Based upon the presence or absence of spermatozoa in the lumen of the seminiferous tubules, sexual maturity in grizzly bears from the continental United States is attained at approximately 5.5 years of age"
Of course not, lmao. If the male bear was 2 to 2.5 years old it was a cub. If the male bear was 3 it just became a subadult.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2020 21:04:46 GMT -5
Let me guess, couple of tiger boys think that a 2-3 year old brown bear is a full grown adult correct? First of all, to be considered an adult he has to be 5 years old, but even then the bear wont be full grown until at least age 9.
So EVEN IF a tiger kills a 5 to 8 year old brown bear, yes, he would be killing an adult, but still not full grown.
These tiger loving nerds are a joke. If someone thinks a 2-3 year old male brown bear is an "adult" let alone "full grown", well that person does not have god damn clue about bears.
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