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Post by brobear on May 10, 2020 18:16:23 GMT -5
animals.mom.me/difference-between-african-asian-lions-6088.html Diversification from Gir Forest In April 2013, India's Supreme Court ordered that some of the Asiatic lions in Gujarat's Gir Forest be moved from that west coast state to Kuno wildlife sanctuary in the neighboring state of Madhya Pradesh. In a ruling bitterly opposed by Gujarat, the Supreme Court ruled that in view of the lions' extremely endangered status, all efforts to save them from extinction should be made, including dividing the existing population of just over 400 between two locations. The court has empowered a body of experts to decide how many lions should be moved, and to organize the transportation within six months.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 10, 2020 18:35:36 GMT -5
In the case of Asiatic lions it depends on the individual; there usually is a dominant alpha male among their coalitions who should be more aggressive than the subordinate males. There is an extensive study on the behaviour of Asiatic lions and it seems that the alpha males aren't only more aggressive but also physically fitter: "Singletons held territories for shorter durations (annual tenure holding probability = 0.47 ± 0.19) than males in coalitions. Coalitions of 2 males and more than 2 males had similar annual tenure-holding probabilities (0.85 ± 0.05 and 0.81 ± 0.07, respectively). Singletons had far lower fitness quotients than subordinate males in a coalition of 2 (Figure 3). However, in coalitions with more than 2 males, the males at the bottommost ranks (rank 3 and below) had fitness comparable to that of singletons, indicating that they would do equally good (or poorly) if they remained alone."Study is available here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5873260/
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Post by brobear on May 10, 2020 18:39:55 GMT -5
In the case of Asiatic lions it depends on the individual; there usually is a dominant alpha male among their coalitions who should be more aggressive than the subordinate males. Seems that I never read of any bloody battles among Asiatic lions as we hear about among African lions; such as the Majingilane lions or the lions of Sabi Sands. I don't know of any particular Asiatic lion with a fighting reputation.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 10, 2020 18:43:19 GMT -5
brobear I think that's mostly due to the reason that Asiatic lions live seperate from each other; there are no full prides but rather respective coalitions of females and males. They tend to go at it within their coalitions though: "Dominant males aggressively excluded other partners and consumed 47% more from shared kills. This further indicated that above-mentioned variables were important in parameterizing feeding hierarchies."
My personal take on it is that an alpha male might not be intimidated upon being detected by a sloth bear, however, singletons/subordinate males might be more cautious in their approach.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 10, 2020 18:47:27 GMT -5
From the study at reply #81: very interesting:
African male lions coalesce to safeguard territories and mate acquisition. Unique to these coalitions is lack of strict hierarchies between partners, who have similar resource securities possibly because of many mating opportunities within large female groups.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 10, 2020 18:49:51 GMT -5
Yeah, i agree with this statement.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 10, 2020 18:56:15 GMT -5
The thing with Asiatic lions is that they are extremely poorly studied in comparison to their African cousins; I really hope that their numbers will rise gradually in the upcoming decades so that we can enjoy discovering many more exciting interactions, for one part within their species and for the other part with other species (sloth bears and tigers maybe).
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2020 2:46:25 GMT -5
I have been listening to rumors about repopulating other locations with Asiatic lions for years. Will we actually be seeing this any time soon?
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Post by brobear on May 13, 2020 13:22:32 GMT -5
Asiatic lion meets sloth bear:
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 13, 2020 13:39:42 GMT -5
brobear Regarding reply #87: If I remember correctly, one of the official statements was that the big herbivore populations in other parts of Asia weren't large enough to sustain a few reintroduced Asiatic lion coalitions over a longer period of time.
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Post by brobear on May 13, 2020 13:48:22 GMT -5
brobear Regarding reply #87: If I remember correctly, one of the official statements was that the big herbivore populations in other parts of Asia weren't big enough to sustain a few reintroduced Asiatic lion coalitions. Seems that there should be some place in Eurasia where these big cats could receive a second chance / second population. Also, in defense of inbreeding, is there no African lion population closely related that could add to the gene-flow? If these problems are not met ( IMHO ) the Asiatic lion has a short future.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 13, 2020 13:53:41 GMT -5
brobear I've never really delved into the genetic options regarding Asiatic lions; I know that they belong to the same subspecies as the West African lion and the populations in West Africa are also very limited in their numbers. To me it seems that the future of the subspecies Panthera leo leo remains uncertain and the populations of Panthera leo melanochaita have a decreasing trend due to extensive poaching. You would have to eliminate a few "big fishes" in the black market/poaching industry in order to set things straight in my eyes.
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Post by brobear on Jun 27, 2020 13:26:52 GMT -5
I don't generally like to post captive animal fights. But, in any case, we can see that nothing is faked here. Now, I am no big cat expert. Is this a lioness, a young lion, or a full-grown maneless male? In any case, I see an Asiatic black bear successfully defending himself against a lion. In the wild, given a chance, the bear would scurry up a tree. But when cornered, he knows how to fight. The lion wants out of this enclosure. The bear, being familiar with tigers, knows that the lion is a predator. He is in defensive mode. The lion has no idea what-in-the-hell is this thing? Now, I have actually seen up close a big Syrian brown bear at "Tiger World" in Rockwell, NC in 2012. I have no lingering doubts that a Syrian brown bear is a stronger bear than an Asiatic black bear. In a face-off, big cats simply don't do well against bears. Now, I feel the need to.... edit and add: in the wild, this lion would not have fought this bear for more than - less than a minute.
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Post by Polar on Jun 27, 2020 17:14:05 GMT -5
This bear was on the smaller side too, and a less aggressive black bear. Throughout the video, the cat never really put the bear in a disadvantageous position at any moment (bears just know how to rassle). Everytime the lion hit the bear or tried to pin it, the bear came back up.
It seemed like the cat was being more aggressive while the bear was more intrusive yet a little less brave in this case.
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Post by brobear on Jun 27, 2020 18:01:28 GMT -5
This bear was on the smaller side too, and a less aggressive black bear. Throughout the video, the cat never really put the bear in a disadvantageous position at any moment (bears just know how to rassle). Everytime the lion hit the bear or tried to pin it, the bear came back up. It seemed like the cat was being more aggressive while the bear was more intrusive yet a little less brave in this case. Would you say this lion is a lioness, a young male, or a mature male lion?
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Post by Polar on Jun 27, 2020 18:26:57 GMT -5
This bear was on the smaller side too, and a less aggressive black bear. Throughout the video, the cat never really put the bear in a disadvantageous position at any moment (bears just know how to rassle). Everytime the lion hit the bear or tried to pin it, the bear came back up. It seemed like the cat was being more aggressive while the bear was more intrusive yet a little less brave in this case. Would you say this lion is a lioness, a young male, or a mature male lion? It's either a young male or a lioness. Hard to tell with the video quality.
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Post by BruteStrength on Jun 27, 2020 23:05:30 GMT -5
If anybody had to guess, what is the weights of the individuals?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 28, 2020 7:03:59 GMT -5
If anybody had to guess, what is the weights of the individuals? Asiatic black bear and either a subadult male lion or adult lioness. Maybe in the 250-300 lb range, very hard to tell. Just a wild guess.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 28, 2020 7:21:14 GMT -5
Probably the same weght range as the lioness. A bear will always be bulkier than a cat of the same weight.
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Post by Polar on Jun 29, 2020 2:21:01 GMT -5
250 pounds for sure
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