|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Mar 12, 2023 2:38:26 GMT -5
Cave bear, cave lion, and cave hyena comparison to human. While cave bears do not hunt and kill cave lions, the former sometimes kills the latter in self defense.
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on Mar 17, 2023 7:20:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Mar 17, 2023 7:47:06 GMT -5
I see you have changed your avatar to that of the largest bear on planet earth alive today.
|
|
BJA
Sun Bear
Posts: 24
|
Post by BJA on Jun 1, 2023 3:34:52 GMT -5
These are arguments I hear
1. Lions are strikers because they have thicker and stronger bones in the arms, said to be the strongest in Mammalia carnivores, and that there are many videos of lions fighting and they deliver many paw swipes, and that the lion's paw is the Nasmyh's hammer of the animal kingdom, and there are reporting of lions killing tigers, jaguars, hyenas, bears with one blow, and that the lion has the most powerful killing arm in the animal kingdom, and one of the three strongest strikers in the animal kingdom, a whale's blow, a giraffe kick, and a lion's paw, and one the other hand, I have heard that bears are plantigrade build creatures and that they have striking advantage over digitigrade builds, like lions or tigers, and there have been accounts of bears killing moose, decapitating bisons, and other animals with one blow, but that has been debunked apparently, as bears are said to be grabbers and wrestlers not strikers, and that bears have more hollow bones in the arms that aren't built for striking and many books and trainers have stated things like : " a grizzly doesn't have to power to decapite any creature larger than a man", bears don't have the crushing blow that is commonly said" and that bears don't have the ability to deliver a powerful swipe like lions, it's debatable, with the bone density in lions being 55 percent, while bears have 59 percent
2. Many people say that bears are fatter and have the luxury of taking a break a hibernating and that they don't have to compete with enemies often, or have to practice fighting abilities often, while a lion has many enemies and more prey that it can practice one, and they live in much harsher, so lions are better and stronger fighters
3. According to Ross Wind, bears are heavier in the back, not in the front, like a lion, where the weight is in the front, so lions are more built for swiping the the front.
4. Thanks for sharing me the book, but looking more in arguments and Tapatalks, many people say that Michael isn't a credible source, and say that Michael's lawyer says that Michael has the tendency to make claims that exceed the evidence. And that if the bears dominated the roman coliseums, then how come it wasn't represented nearly as much as the lion, and that there were lion statues all around Rome and many Romans wanted to be lions and worshipped the lions, and any time lions were in the arenas, the Romans cheered, and lions were linked to the most powerful sources in the world, and that the amount of lion worship and reverence in ancient times are said to contradict Michael's studies
5. It is often said that bears show no warning when attacking, meaning that lions only get killed by bears If the bears catch them by surprise
|
|
|
Post by yz on Jun 1, 2023 4:21:00 GMT -5
These are arguments I hear 1. Lions are strikers because they have thicker and stronger bones in the arms, said to be the strongest in Mammalia carnivores, and that there are many videos of lions fighting and they deliver many paw swipes, and that the lion's paw is the Nasmyh's hammer of the animal kingdom, and there are reporting of lions killing tigers, jaguars, hyenas, bears with one blow, and that the lion has the most powerful killing arm in the animal kingdom, and one of the three strongest strikers in the animal kingdom, a whale's blow, a giraffe kick, and a lion's paw, and one the other hand, I have heard that bears are plantigrade build creatures and that they have striking advantage over digitigrade builds, like lions or tigers, and there have been accounts of bears killing moose, decapitating bisons, and other animals with one blow, but that has been debunked apparently, as bears are said to be grabbers and wrestlers not strikers, and that bears have more hollow bones in the arms that aren't built for striking and many books and trainers have stated things like : " a grizzly doesn't have to power to decapite any creature larger than a man", bears don't have the crushing blow that is commonly said" and that bears don't have the ability to deliver a powerful swipe like lions, it's debatable, with the bone density in lions being 55 percent, while bears have 59 percent 2. Many people say that bears are fatter and have the luxury of taking a break a hibernating and that they don't have to compete with enemies often, or have to practice fighting abilities often, while a lion has many enemies and more prey that it can practice one, and they live in much harsher, so lions are better and stronger fighters 3. According to Ross Wind, bears are heavier in the back, not in the front, like a lion, where the weight is in the front, so lions are more built for swiping the the front. 4. Thanks for sharing me the book, but looking more in arguments and Tapatalks, many people say that Michael isn't a credible source, and say that Michael's lawyer says that Michael has the tendency to make claims that exceed the evidence. And that if the bears dominated the roman coliseums, then how come it wasn't represented nearly as much as the lion, and that there were lion statues all around Rome and many Romans wanted to be lions and worshipped the lions, and any time lions were in the arenas, the Romans cheered, and lions were linked to the most powerful sources in the world, and that the amount of lion worship and reverence in ancient times are said to contradict Michael's studies 5. It is often said that bears show no warning when attacking, meaning that lions only get killed by bears If the bears catch them by surprise I'm going to address a few of these points. First of all, those books that claim lions have the strongest bones etc etc are from the previous centuries and tend to be extremely unreliable. Modern scientific data show that lions aren't that strong. Here are some compilations : justpaste.it/5ap41justpaste.it/9sa8mjustpaste.it/1taf9 Brown, Polar and sloth bears have overall relatively stronger shoulders forelimbs and chests than lions. These compilations further prove that these books they're quoting are just outdated and unreliable. Bears are fatter but that doesn't compromise their strength as evident from the fact that bears are stronger than lions in the forelimbs chests and shoulders meaning they're built heavier in the front. Also if being fat was some sort of handicap then according to their logic, a subadult bear should be stronger than an adult bear : www.researchgate.net/publication/259539758_Body_and_Diet_Composition_of_Sympatric_Black_and_Grizzly_Bears_in_the_Greater_Yellowstone_Ecosystem?enrichId=rgreq-0ffbbe09ec22d60050db9e280318685c-XXX&enrichSource=Y292ZXJQYWdlOzI1OTUzOTc1ODtBUzo2NDE4NzQ5ODk2OTA4ODFAMTUzMDA0NjMzMTE5NQ%3D%3D&el=1_x_2&_esc=publicationCoverPdfConcerning the 55% in cats vs 59% in bears. This is the study they're referring to : www.researchgate.net/publication/229600388_Locomotor_behaviour_in_Plio-Pleistocene_sabre-tooth_cats_A_biomechanical_analysisAnd here's something they stated in it : Yeah so American Lions which were stronger than Modern African Lions had medullary cavities comparable to those of a Brown Bear. Not to mention that the study in general offered some highly questionable data as sloth bears are apparently more slender built than hyenas and some canid species represented by open circles ☠️ : That other source stating that the lion's paw swipe is the most powerful alongside the giraffe's kick and the whale's blow is obviously erroneous as elephants are stronger than giraffes and rhinos are stronger than lions. As for these so called accounts of lions supposedly killing tigers and bears in one blow, Anyone with at least five brain cells can already tell these accounts are obviously fake. Lions aren't that strong. Take the big cage for example : notice how that lion in the midst of a serious fight struck the tiger's face. The tiger didn't die to that and throughout the footage you can see how the lion repeatedly swiped the tiger. How come it didn't kill it in a single blow ? And since bears are built heavier and stronger than tigers, there's no way for a lion to simply oneshot a brown bear. Keep in mind these stories come from centuries where they also reported sightings of Pumas killing Grizzlies but we know for a fact even black bears dominate cougars and have a negative impact on the cats : academic.oup.com/beheco/article/26/1/247/2263118Keep in mind that bears also have Stronger backs than cats : www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S027737910400294XDon't listen to Ross btw, he claims that lions are stronger than tigers due to their less flexible backs and being less agile but when it comes to bears that obviously have less flexible backs and are less agile, he's like: "oh well, lion is still king of beasts !" . Ross wind also believes that lions are stronger than Smilodon whereas the General scientific consensus is that the Sabertooth cats were stronger than even American Lions. Here's one famous example : journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0011412Ross win is just cherry-picking and throws away any valuable info that doesn't suit his agenda.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:22:19 GMT -5
A few points by request from akibeh19. Btw; good points yz. Bone density, or bone mineral density, is the amount of bone mineral in bone tissue. Bone density comes from use. Example, active people who lives in the mountains have stronger bones than active people who live in th3e flat-lands. Big cats do not have stronger bones than bears and there is no difference in bone density between big cat species. Quote; "...bears don't have the crushing blow that is commonly said" and that bears don't have the ability to deliver a powerful swipe like lions..." Did you find this in a joke book? A bear has greater movability in their arms (forlimbs) than a cat has. The strike-force of a bear, especially a brown bear, is far more devastating than than from the soft-paw swipe of a cat. Blaire Van Valkenburgh Continued... shaggygod.proboards.com/thread/954/general-evolution?page=2SPEED AND STRENGTH All bears have a large head with small ears followed by massive shoulders and a short back and | tail, all of which are supported on thick limbs and broad paws. Compared with big cats, bears have longer snouts and shorter, stiffer backs. Relative to large dogs, bears have bulky legs and much more spreading feet. Unlike these other carnivores, and more like humans, bears walk on the soles of their hindfeet, with their ankle joint positioned just above the ground. This condition is called plantigrade, and differs from the digitigrade posture of cats and dogs, in which the “soles” of the feet are elevated, along with the ankle, and only the toes touch the ground. To understand why bears are built so differendy from cats and dogs, it is essential to explain the benefits of digitigrade feet. Running around on your toes in a digitigrade posture is advantageous if speed is important. Speed is the product of stride length and stride frequency. Raising the ankle adds length to the part of the limb that determines stride length, that is from the shoulder or hip to the point of contact with the ground. Longer limbs take bigger strides, and digitigrade posture is therefore typical of mammals designed to run. Digitigrade animals also tend to have relatively long bones, or metapodials, making up the sole of the foot, adding further to total limb length. In addition, their limb muscles are much thicker close to the hip or shoulder joint, and taper towards the toes as long, elastic tendons. This construction reduces muscle mass near the ankles and feet, where the limb travels farthest during locomotion, and thus reduces inertial effects. A The skeletons of a bear and a domestic dog illustrate the difference between plantigrade and digitigrade postures. The dog is digitigrade, standing on its toes with the soles of its feet (metapodials) off the ground. By contrast, the soles of the bear's hindfeet are flat to the ground, as in humans, giving it a plantigrade posture. If one imagines the additional energy required to walk or run with ankle weights or heavy shoes, then the drawbacks of heavy feet become clear. There are yet further benefits to runners in having long tendinous muscle attachments. Tendons are elastic and act as energy-saving springs when running. They are stretched as the limb is flexed under the weight of the animal and then rebound, propelling the body forward and upward. So, digitigrade posture, long metapodials, and compact muscles with stretchy tendons are typical of carnivores built for speed. Bears are clearly not built for speed. Although their forefeet are semi-digitigrade, their hind-feet are plantigrade. Moreover, their metapodials are short and their muscles thick throughout the length of the limb. In many ways, bears are built more like badgers than other similar-sized carnivores, such as tigers, and it shows in their speed. The top speed recorded for both black and brown bears is 50 kilometers (30 miles) per hour, whereas the range for the fully digitigrade lion and wolf is 55 to 65 kilometers (35 to 40 miles) per hour. If bears are not built for speed, then what does the combination of massive limbs, plantigrade hindfeet, cumbersome paws, and a short back provide? Strength and mobility of limb movement are the answers. The stout limbs of bears are capable of producing large forces over a much greater range of motion than those of dogs or even cats. Bears use these capabilities when digging for food or shelter, fishing for salmon, climbing to escape danger, and battling with members of their own species as well as other predators. Imagine a wolf trying to perform a bear hug or climb a tree. Dogs have forfeited these abilities in favor of speed. Cats are more like bears in their range of possible movements, but lack strength. Bears may not be able to outrun danger, but can successfully defend themselves through brute force.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:27:53 GMT -5
Franklin321... For one, I believe in regards to claws as weapons, those of ursines are more efficient, whereas the claws of a feline are multifunctional, they are closer to what we would see as tools; the claws of bears can slash and lacerate with precision, being about as sharp, although not as curved in design as those of a felid.
Whereas, a feline's claws are closer to meat-hooks, and better at holding prey, because of this a slash could be slowed down due to the cat's claws being stuck or something equivalent into its rivals flesh. Of course, they still make formidable weapons, and felines can afterall use all eighteen of their claws as weapons whereas bears are limited to ten!
As for your statements regarding paw swipes, generally, bears will kill large prey by attempting to control the head of the animal, and than use their jaws to attack the throat. However, they have been known to kill large prey with a clout.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:29:06 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/thread/11...rful-force The bear paw is capable of delivering a powerful force, resulting in significant blunt trauma, particularly to the head and neck, ribcage, and abdominal cavity, especially solid organ rupture. Therefore victims of bear attacks should be evaluated for occult blunt trauma.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:30:53 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Mediolateral forces were significantly higher than would be expected for a large erect mammal, almost to the extent of a sprawling crocodilian. There may be morphological or energetic explanations for the use of the running walk rather than the trot. The high medial forces (produced from a lateral push by the animal) could be caused by frontal plane movement of the carpus and elbow by bears. Overall, while grizzly bears share some similarities with large cursorial species, their locomotor kinetics have unique characteristics. Additional studies are needed to determine whether these characters are a feature of all bears or plantigrade species. VGRF = vertical ground reaction force. *Brown bears share some similarities with large cursorial species, their locomotor kinetics have unique characteristics. *Vertical ground reaction forces is significantly more pronounced in the hindlimb,however,VGRF in forelim is still relatively high. "The high medial forces (produced from a lateral push by the animal) could be caused by frontal plane movement of the carpus and elbow by bears" It forced me to focused on the carpus of brown bears. Sylvie McKenzie said she was driving along a highway a few kilometres west of Jasper when she noticed two bears running along the road ahead.She said she slowed down to let the bears cross the road, but only the female bear did so. The second bear – a male – simply stopped and stared at her. McKenzie said she then started driving, putting her car between the two bears. Sylvie McKenzie Asked whether she has any advice for drivers caught in the same situation in the future, McKenzie had simple advice: 'Stop, turn around, wait for a few minutes and go back.' (CBC) "The male didn't like it at all, so he decided to take his feet, charge and hit my car with his two front paws," she said. "[He] just came and pounced on my car with full force and full speed." McKenzie said the car rocked violently when the bear hit it, giving her a close-up view of the bear’s face. "I could see his teeth, the drool on his face. I tried to speed up and put my foot on the gas pedal to get away as fast as I could." Later, she found grizzly prints all over the side of her car, along with two big dents and several scratches. It seem that carpal bone have a high resistance to mechanical deformation. Grizzly bear front paws are surprisingly heavy,maybe due to massive carpal bones? This is the most accurate description of the striking ability IMHO: "...The attack of a Bear is usually sudden and rapid, and he either tries to deal his opponent a blow with a forepaw by executing a rapid and violent movement to the side ,or he quickly trots up to his enemy ,suddenly lift himself on his hind-legs in the immediate proximity of his foe whom he tries to knock down with a violent stroke of the front-paw,or else he deals him a sound blow and gives him a quick bite..."
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:44:23 GMT -5
QUOTE, Many people say that bears are fatter and have the luxury of taking a break a hibernating and that they don't have to compete with enemies often, or have to practice fighting abilities often, while a lion has many enemies and more prey that it can practice one, and they live in much harsher, so lions are better and stronger fighters. *Brown bears probably fight each other just as often as lions fight lions. Outside of this, lions are ambush predators. They are hunters who attack from the read or from the side to kill herbivores. A bear, especially a brown bear, is a kleptoparasite; meaning he often faces other predators for food. Bears are better fighters than cats; thus a sloth bear can usually fend off a tiger double his (or her) own weight.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 7:57:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 8:00:33 GMT -5
QUOTE; It is often said that bears show no warning when attacking, meaning that lions only get killed by bears If the bears catch them by surprise. LOL! This is definitely from a joke book. All cats are ambush predators. It is the bear who goes head-on into a fight.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 8:06:33 GMT -5
4. Thanks for sharing me the book, but looking more in arguments and Tapatalks, many people say that Michael isn't a credible source, and say that Michael's lawyer says that Michael has the tendency to make claims that exceed the evidence. And that if the bears dominated the roman coliseums, then how come it wasn't represented nearly as much as the lion, and that there were lion statues all around Rome and many Romans wanted to be lions and worshipped the lions, and any time lions were in the arenas, the Romans cheered, and lions were linked to the most powerful sources in the world, and that the amount of lion worship and reverence in ancient times are said to contradict Michael's studies
*The Romans loved lions for their regal appearance and their roar. This began long before the arena fights began. Historian Michel Pastoureau got his information straight from the original source, the records from ancient Rome. The very fact that they practically worshipped lions pretty-much proves that their descriptions of the fights were honest.
|
|
BJA
Sun Bear
Posts: 24
|
Post by BJA on Jun 1, 2023 15:53:36 GMT -5
brobear and yz, I appreciate y'all for this info, In my opinion, a large bear would own any big cat under normal circumstances, due to a bear being more durable, being bigger and stronger, and having more endurance, but I'm still skeptical about the whole paw swipes thing, because many people bring up the video of the grizzly bear attacking a caribou, and many animals like a young bison, and they have observed people say that they seen bears attack sheep, and the bears didn't strike once, but when it came to lions, they bring their prey down instantly, even using their "strikes"to take down prey, and when bears are fighting, they wrestle, not strike, while there are countless videos of lions fighting, and they strike and dodge, that's why I'm still wondering about the whole striking thing
Is this video a good analysis for lion, tiger, and bear paw swipes
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 16:39:13 GMT -5
A brown bear has a much more powerful paw-strike than any big cat. But, they rarely kill with a slap. From early cub-hood, bears play-wrestle; almost constantly. By the time the three-year-old is left on his own, he is a professional wrestler. Yes, bears sometimes use paw-swipes when fighting each other. But, not with any intention of killing with this method. A bear, especially a brown bear, has a strong neck and shoulders. Even the paw-strike from another big boar brown bear to the side of his skull will do little more than momentarily daze the bear. They are built to withstand such an impact. Bears, especially brown bears, are extremely durable. The paw-swipe from a lion or a tiger would hardly be noticed by a big boar brown bear; Like Stone Cold Steve Austin being slapped by a teenage girl. From "The Essential Grizzly" by Doug and Andrea Peacock: The big grizzly stalks along the treeline, Shadowing the smallest of the three elk, still quite a formidable animal with a five-pointed rack. Mother bear steps clear of the pine forest and advances toward the ungulate. The elk ignores the bear until she stands fifty feet away. He makes no attempt to flee. The bull paws the dirt with his front hooves and turns to face the grizzly - the sharp tines of its rack lowered. They stand facing each other for the good part of a minute, the cubs stationary behind their mother. The sow charges the bull, who stands his ground and even takes a small step forward. At the instant before contact, the grizzly rises on her hind legs and reaches over the head and antlers of the elk. She grabs his neck with her jaws. The grizzly has all her weight on the forequarters of the elk; he shakes his head and circles, churning the ground with his hooves. The bear hangs on with her claws and bites the bull on the face and ears. They go down kicking, and the ungulate almost breaks free. The sow bites again and this time clenches the spinal column with her teeth. The bear picks up the bull by the neck and shakes it. The bull shudders then lies still. *Note; bears, unlike the big cats, usually make frontal attacks.
|
|
BJA
Sun Bear
Posts: 24
|
Post by BJA on Jun 1, 2023 16:48:17 GMT -5
You mean in this video, the mother bear strikes the male bear 3:19
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 17:13:26 GMT -5
From Frank321.... domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/12/strength-leverage?page=2 Shoulder Hump**** This section will be given to the brown bear amongst ursines soley. We'll start out with a quote from the Great Bear Almanac, by Gary Brown on page 77- Brown bears have a hump between their shoulders that is covered with long hairs and is normally a reliable means of species identification. The long hair often accentuates the hump when "the hackles" are raised. This distinguishing feature is a distinctive mass of muscle that provides the brown bears with their digging ability and the powerful striking force of the forepaws. Once again, another part of brown bear anatomy (although other bears have similar features which shows why they can accomplish similar feats) which allows for tremendous striking force of the paws. However, this extra muscle also allows extra strength, as have other features such as the shortened back, greater amount of muscle in the limbs of bears, and leverage advantage in paw striking. Other ursines such as the black bear and polar bear, have this feature abridged, and felines lack it entirely. How large can the shoulder hump get however? Let's find out how high first, this source mentions how the bear's height is measured and than gives it (http://internationalhunte.../InteriorBearAnatomy.html)- The brown bear is 3-5 feet, from the bottom of the paw to the highest point at the shoulder. We can subtract this height from the limb length of Ursus arctos in the chart shown in section 1.0 to find the height of the shoulder hump. Ursus arctos's forelimb length is 2.857, subtracting this from three and five feet gives us a range of .143-2.143 feet. I would assume that only the largest bears would of roughly half a ton in weight would have a shoulder hump of two feet, whereas only the smallest would be within the range of .143 of a foot. However, since maximums and minimals don't particularly show averages, we will search for the average height of the grizzly, this source (http://www.bearinfosite.com/brown_grizzly_bear.htm ) gives an average- The adult bear is generally 3 1/2 feet tall when on all fours. Continued.... Now, to minus the limb length, 3.5-2.857=0.643. This should mean that the brown bear's shoulder hump is about 6 inches tall, at average (or at least, when the hump is erect, which it will be in some phases of running or digging.) Now, to find out how wide. While I don't have any evidence of this, pictures seem to clearly show a brown bear's shoulder hump is noticeably wider than it is high. So when we calculate how wide the shoulder hump of a brown bear is, we will use the term "at least wider than", since the shoulder hump of a brown bear is wider than it is tall. Now than, we know the shoulder hump of an average brown bear is at least wider than six inches, but what is the actual circumference of the hump? Having a hump at least wider than six inches, we can use pi to find out (note that we will use pi to the hundred-millionth unit.) 6*pi=18.84955592153876. However, since the shoulder hump is only half a circle, due to meeting with the back before completion, we must divide this by two- 18.84955592153876/2=9.42477796. So we now know that the shoulder hump of an average brown bear should at least have a circumference greater than 9.42477796 inches. Now, another question must be asked, what is the area of a an average brown bear's shoulder hump? We can find this by multiplying pi by the radius squared. So, pi*3^2= 28.27433385. However, since once more the shoulder hump of a brown bear is only half a circle we must once more, divide by two, so 28.27433385/2=14.137166925. Now the important phase, I would like to find out the weight of a brown bear's shoulder hump. The area of an average brown bear's shoulder hump is greater than 14.137166925 inches, or 1.17809724375 feet. How much area will this many feet of a brown bear weight. We will be using the grizzly bear in this scenario, since brown bear size is extremely fluctuating. This source (http://www.defenders.org/...wildlife/grizzly_bear.php ) says the average grizzly is 6-7 in length, and gives a median of 575 pounds. Now, to give an approximation of the weight of a grizzly bear's shoulder hump, we will divide the average weight of the bear by its average length. We aren't done yet however, we must also take into account a bear's fore- and hind limbs, as these make up some of the bear's weight as well, rather than just the torso. To account for the bear's hind and forelimbs, we will multiply the forelimb length and hind limb lengths given by the chart in the "Neuromuscular evolution" thread by two, and add them together, than add them to the bear's torso length. 2.857*2= 5.714, 2.802*2= 5.604, 5.714+5.604= 11.318. So, now we will add this length to the range of the bear's torso length, 11.318+6= 17.318, 11.318+7= 18.318. Now, we will divide the bear's weight by this length to find out how much weight a bear gains when it gains a foot in length, 575/17.318= 33.20244839667398082919505716595, 575/18= 31.944444444444443. So, every other foot added onto a bear should give it a gain of 33.20244839667398082919505716595-31.944444444444443 pounds. Now, to find our estimation for the shoulder hump weight we can stimply add on 17.809724375% of the weight our ranges gave us for per square foot of a grizzly bear. So, 33.20244839667398082919505716595+17.067652520105092%= 38.8693269, and 31.944444444444443 +17.067652520105092%= 37.3966112. However, it should be noted since seven feet was the upper weight range in length for a bear, we're likely talking about a bear closer to 625 pounds with the shoulder hump weight estimate, and since the shoulder hump of a bear lacks bones, in order to optimize muscle attachment, the overall weight will also likely (although not necessarily so, because bears for the most part, have all muscle in their shoulder hump, whereas the hips of a bear will show less weight per square foot due to the fact that's where the fat of a ursine is, and fat weighs less than muscle) be on the lower end of the estimation. Now, we can make a chart listing the statistics of a brown bear's shoulder hump. Continued.... Shoulder hump Height- six inches. Width- greater than six inches. Circumference- greater than 9.42477796 inches. Area- greater than 14.137166925 inches. Estimated weight (roughly)- 38.8693269-37.3966112 pounds. Percentage of body weight estimation- 6.759882939130435-6.503758469565218% To sum up the shoulder hump section, we can conclude the extra hump of muscle a brown bear will have will have a noticeable effect on the conclusion, as seemingly 36 pounds of muscle will be gained in this area; this would mean a feline's muscles would need to be much more powerful than those of a bear to ditigate the effect of an extra 30+ pounds of muscle; something which is highly unlikely.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jun 1, 2023 17:19:23 GMT -5
Reply #355; good example akibeh19. That paw-strike might have broken the neck of a lion or tiger. But the big male bear was barely dazed.
|
|
BJA
Sun Bear
Posts: 24
|
Post by BJA on Jun 1, 2023 19:19:44 GMT -5
Nice info on the shoulder hump, but going back to the paw swipe argument, what I hear is that bears only extend their arms out to slash at an opponent, and people mistake that for a strike, and bears use their shoulder hump to push the arms out, but they can't deliver a wide curve motion with the paws, while on the other hand, it is said that lions can deliver a true strike, or blow, due to a lion's ability to do what's called a haymaker, or a gazelle punch, which is using the full body weight to distribute it to the paw for a maximum blow, which is something that a bear is said to not to be able to do, as a blow from a bear is said to be nonexplosive, and slower, so that it can't do much damage, as I hear that people say that a bear's arms are not made for stunning, or crushing the bones, like a lion apparently has, and even though I have seen the studies that bears have more robust bones, I have read that lions have the greatest amount of phosphates in their bones, said to be a strong as an elephant tusk or ivory, which I don't really believe, but that is what I have seen, and that is apparently the saying that lions have the strongest bones of the carnivora mammals.
|
|
BJA
Sun Bear
Posts: 24
|
Post by BJA on Jun 1, 2023 19:40:43 GMT -5
|
|