|
Post by tom on Nov 1, 2021 17:46:43 GMT -5
What is the average weight of the male Eurasian Brown Bear?
My opinion is if the Bear is equal or greater in weight a single Lion will not win this encounter. In fact in real life he likely wouldn't even attempt to fight the Bear. Even protecting a kill the Lion would possibly try to bluff the Bear but if the Bear wanted that bad enough the Lion is not likely to go the distance. Two Lions is another matter though.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 2, 2021 1:25:16 GMT -5
The Eurasian Brown Bear is some larger than the inland American grizzly. He is closer in size with the Ussuri brown bear. But, I wholeheartedly agree that one-on-one, the bear takes this. Two or more lions and the tide of the battle changes. Weight, strength, and durability are great, but numbers prevail ( IMO ). My curiosity, would two or more lions attempt to displace a bear from a carcass? I feel certain that the bear would avoid conflict with two or more lions, but he might displace a lone lion from time-to-time. Also, would the lion stalk she-bears and juveniles, same as he tiger?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 4, 2021 10:01:40 GMT -5
An updated version of the intraspecific comparison between a female and a male Asiatic lion
Although it is unlikely we will ever witness such a meeting, the Asiatic lion is the most likely lion subspecies to come into contact with a bear or a tiger.
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on Nov 4, 2021 20:10:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 6, 2021 22:24:11 GMT -5
Historically, the brown bear is no stranger to lions. During the Pleistocene, the brown bear lived among both lions and tigers in Asia, lions in Europe ( cave lions ), and lions in North America ( P. atrox ). Modern lions ( P. leo ) also lived in ancient Europe ( although facts seem to be blurred ). There were also both brown bears and lions living in North Africa. But, with all of this, we are left with not a single scrap of information concerning the relationship between the lion and the brown bear.
|
|
|
Post by kesagake on Nov 7, 2021 9:13:32 GMT -5
brobear the cave lions and American lions aren't true lions, just closely related.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 1:40:02 GMT -5
brobear the cave lions and American lions aren't true lions, just closely related. Or sister lineage of lions... it´s interesting to see how they are defined in future, I call them still lions, because based on all what is known, they lived in pretty similar environment as modern lions, open terrain etc. And their appearance also looks a lot like lions based on reconstructions. So in that way it feels safe to say, that during the Pleistocene bears and lions coexisted in same areas.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 14, 2021 14:58:37 GMT -5
Rather than use words such as "braver" or opposite, "cowardly", as I truly believe are misused in terms of animal species in general. Although, some individuals, within any species can be ( IMO ) braver or more cowardly than another of same species. The question would be, which is more ready to fight, head-to-head, another large and powerful adversary, lion, tiger, or brown bear. I believe that we might all agree that, for the most part, this contest would be limited to lion vs brown bear, although there would certainly be some individual dominant male tigers equally as ready. But as for typical adult male specimens of each species, this would be lion vs brown bear. The prize might go to the lion ( maybe ) as he is completely dependent on a diet of meat. The brown bear has other options. However, it is also a known fact that a brown bear will often choose to attack the head of his adversary rather than the lion's usual "ambush-like" flank attack. But, this doesn't change the fact that a lion is quick to choose to fight. I doubt that a lone lion would easily relinquish his kill to a brown bear. But, with the bear's normal weight advantage, the lion might learn a difficult lesson ( one that the African lion is unaccustomed to ). To choose, which of these two are the most willing to fight, face-to-face, cannot be easily answered. *As is clearly stated in our topic, "Bears surviving in Africa" ( found in the 'Bears in General' section ), the lion would surely dominate both tigers and bears due to the advantage of numbers.
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 18, 2021 17:14:13 GMT -5
The bear wins, even at parity.
Bears have bigger and more developed pectoral muscles which contribute to overall upper-body strength. This is because the pectoral muscles are involved in so many different upper-body movements. This affects chest muscles, to push objects and heavy things. Bears are also have larger and more developed deltoid muscles, which play a large role in the movement and overall stability of the shoulder joint and upper arm.
Bears have a closed intertubercular groove and it’s canal-like. They have more powerful bicep brachii, which in return assists shoulder elevation and stronger biceps, not surprising since bears dig a lot so of course they will have stronger forearm strength.
Big cats, in general have a gracile, slender build bones than bears.
Bears are plantigrade and big cats are digitigrade, giving the bear an advantage within better developed deltoid crests, and deltoid crest is small in felids but extended in bears...
Bears have a wider and more robust scapula, located within shoulder connects the humerus (upper arm bone) with the clavicle (collar bone). A stronger shoulder blade support system (in this case, your traps and upper back muscles) can retract more forcefully. ... Strong muscles related to the shoulder blades mean a stronger scapular retraction, which may translate to more rows and pull-ups (and other muscle-building moves). It is crucial for efficient arm movement and joint stability…
|
|
|
Post by kesagake on Dec 18, 2021 18:40:14 GMT -5
@slickcarl are you shake?
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 19, 2021 13:16:54 GMT -5
@slickcarl are you shake? Yes.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 23, 2021 1:07:40 GMT -5
slickjarl says, "The bear wins, even at parity." I agree. At weight-parity, because the bear has a broader build ( greater girth ), the big cat is longer and taller. So, in reality, at weight-parity, the big cat is bigger than the bear. It's like have two boxers or wrestlers in the ring, one standing 5 feet tall and the other standing 6 feet tall, yet both weighing 200-pounds. Nevertheless, the bear has some strength advantage, superior grappling ability, and greater stamina ( despite the fact that the big cat is bigger ). At equal head-and-body length, which is completely fair to both antagonists ( like having two boxers or wrestlers in the ring, each standing 6 feet tall ) then the bear has a weight advantage due to the cold-hard fact that he has greater girth and a substantial advantage in strength. Big cat fans argue that HB length-parity is unfair because the bear then outweighs the big cat. That's a weak excuse. The bear outweighs the big cat because the bear is the superior of the two predators being compared in terms of having the more powerful physical body. The big cat retains his own physical advantages of stealth, agility, speed, and leaping ability. *NOTE: the problem with lions, they have an advantage that overshadows weight, durability, stamina, and brute strength - numbers.
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 29, 2021 1:00:32 GMT -5
Most lion killing bears has been refuted by me .
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2021 1:42:33 GMT -5
Most lion killing bears has been refuted by me . Not a single lion vs bear story from those old newspapers of the 19th century or the early to mid-20th century would stand-up in a courtroom. Because of tough competition between newspapers as well as the fact that ( especially before television ) newspapers relied heavily upon sensationalism. The public hungered for exciting stories. Conclusion: some stories were true, some were greatly exaggerated, some were pure fantasy, and ( IMO ) worst of all some stories had multiple endings according to which newspaper you are reading. However, the records preserved from the Old Roman Colosseum blood-sports are considered as factual. According to them, in single combat - the bear always defeated the lion. Only brown bears were there.
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 29, 2021 2:05:37 GMT -5
I already discussed some at Beargorrilarealm, I’m @shake there. I debunked Silver King, Baltimore the lion killing 900-Russian beat, Parnell the lion killing Monarch/Sisikiyou and more…
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2021 2:18:48 GMT -5
I already discussed some at Beargorrilarealm, I’m @shake there. I debunked Silver King, Baltimore the lion killing 900-Russian beat, Parnell the lion killing Monarch/Sisikiyou and more… Yeah, in the old AVA ( 1990s early 2000s ) forum, the true story came to light - straight from Yellowstone. The grizzly killed the lion. Monarch, once captured, lived out his life in a cage. If he had ever fought a lion, that would have been told in the book, "California Grizzly" - which did tell the true story of the grizzly Ramadam killing Parnell the lion. An original newspaper clipping is on the wall of the California State Capital Building.
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 29, 2021 2:20:33 GMT -5
Parnell killed a bear in MARCH 2. Monarch the bear and Parnell were arranged for a fight in March 26.
Parnell never fought Siskiyou, the fight was cancelled, many books and newspapers say it too.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2021 2:31:09 GMT -5
Parnell killed a bear in MARCH 2. Monarch the bear and Parnell were arranged for a fight in March 26. Parnell never fought Siskiyou, the fight was cancelled, many books and newspapers say it too. All of those tales come from ages-old newspapers. Monarch was never transported into Mexico to fight with a lion. You can read about Monarch from numerous sites. If he had ever fought a lion, this story would be told. Ramadam the California grizzly killed Parnell the lion and did so quickly. www.calacademy.org/explore-science/monarch-the-grizzly-bear
|
|
|
Post by Granolah on Dec 29, 2021 2:40:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2021 2:53:46 GMT -5
Just for reliability sake, there was only 1 fight between a grizzly and a lion in California, and the bear "Ramadam" killed the African lion "Parnell" "like a cat would a rat", he killed him so fast that the audience hardly knew what had happened. But that was the only fight. Like in roman arenas, bears also won in california as grizzlies of california were also gaints. Sadly,other fights are not documented like this one however i have read some spanish saying that lion is not king of beasts, bear beat lion or bears have destroyed 99% lions in fight are proves that bears always won from lions. Further those spanish who favoured grizzly have based their opinions on those lion vs bear pit fights. My opinion. This "version" is printed in the book "California Grizzly" and a clipping is on the wall of the state capital building in Sacramento.
|
|