Lions surviving in Alaska

[brobear]

Well, this scenario is even more unlikely than transplanting Montana grizzlies into S. Africa. Could you just imagine the panic among the Alaskan residence. However, in brushing this reality under the rug, what would life be like for a pride of lions? 
First problem I think of is the weather. These are not cave lions. These are animals adapted to much warmer climates. So my first question is; could lions survive an Alaskan Winter? 
Next concern; what would be on the lion's menu? Caribou, elk, moose, musk ox, and bison. A pride of lions would not ( IMHO ) starve to death. Lions might also hunt black bears and even grizzlies. Grizzly she-bears and juveniles of the inland variety would have a big problem with lions. A big 600 to 700 pound grizzly boar ( arguably ) might also become lion prey - maybe. Even with these inland grizzlies ( more bad-tempered that their coastal brothers ) a pride of lions might lose a pride member before managing to kill the bear. In time ( IMHO ) the lions might learn that the risk is too high a price for the prize. This idea is of course debatable. 
How about the big coastal brown bears? Even a she-bear can weigh 500+ pounds. A mature boar will weigh anywhere from 700 to 1200 pounds! Would lions hunt these big bears when there are much easier prey to be had? 
Up in the tundra there are smaller grizzlies. But it is really doubtful that a lion could survive the open tundra's climatic conditions. 

[tom]

Interior Alaska would be harsh on a Lion. It would take generations of Lions to develop a coat and fat reserve to withstand an Alaskan winter. So just for this experiment lets say a Lion pride or if you wish a coalition of 5 mature adult males were dropped off in April with the intent of staying until October later that year. This way we can disregard the severe winter conditions altogether. Do we have a preference as to where they will start? One of the several National Parks- Denali, Kenai or maybe even better since it's secluded Kodiak?

Thoughts?

[brobear]

The only place in Alaska that I have actually seen firsthand is the Anchorage airport.

[tom]

We'll that's one more place than I have. About Kodiak, the only mammal that would likely sustain a Lion pride other than Bears themselves would be Sitka deer. Maybe interior Alaska would be better and far more game rich. Now we could include Moose, Caribou, Deer etc..

[brobear]

Mar 24, 2020 10:03:40 GMT -5 tom said:

We'll that's one more place than I have. About Kodiak, the only mammal that would likely sustain a Lion pride other than Bears themselves would be Sitka deer. Maybe interior Alaska would be better and far more game rich. Now we could include Moose, Caribou, Deer etc..

I will choose S.W. Alaska.

[tom]

So the first thing this Lion pride would have to get used to is the lack of abundance of game that their used to. While Alaska is game rich it is not the Serengeti.

Lets start by identifying possible food sources. Black Bear, Grizzly Bear, Moose, Caribou, wolves, goats, sheep, deer and an assortment of smaller mammals. Otters, Walrus, seals and of course a plethora of fish. Would Lions adapt to hunting in streams as do the Bears?

The only Predators that would likely compete would be the Bears. Wolves would certainly give way to Lions in any confrontation.The Lions may soon learn what the Bear has and follow wolf packs to steal their kills. What would happen on a first encounter with a Grizzly?

[brobear]

Quote: Would Lions adapt to hunting in streams as do the Bears?

*Tigers is Siberia never learned to fish. In fact, I can't recall ever hearing of a cougar fishing. So, probably not. Walrus would likely be found further north ( I would think ). Same with musk ox. His two main prey animals, would probably be elk and moose. Bison when available. Bears probably when other game is scarce.

[tom]

Mar 24, 2020 10:44:47 GMT -5 brobear said:

Walrus would likely be found further north ( I would think ). 

Actually, I looked at a Walrus range map for Alaska and it appears that SW Alaska may be part of the breeding and summer/fall territory. Note the yellow circles as breeding grounds and the green diagonal lines as summer and fall areas on the chart at the bottom left corner of the map. I've circled in red the areas within SW Alaska where this pertains to.

So if the Lions patrolled the coastal areas they just might run into Walrus. It would take multiple Lions however to take down an adult Walrus and Walrus pups usually are well protected by the adults. But still... if they can separate a pup from the adults it would be a relatively easy meal. 

[tom]

As far as fish is concerned you are likely correct. They may eat scraps left behind by the bears, but I can't help but think that all the splashing in the shallow streams during the peak of the Salmon runs wouldn't peak their curiosity, only to discover a new food source.

[King Kodiak]

Good thread Tom. The American lion (Panthera Atrox), which was not actually a "lion" but a very close relative, was found from Alaska to Mexico. It also had very undeveloped mane or no mane at all. So a basic evolutionary adaptation to the cold would be a less developed mane for the lions.

Anyhow, obviously, a lion pride is the greatest and most dangerous hunting party in the animal kingdom, so most animals would be doomed to say the least. As for the bears, like we discussed many times in the "bears surviving in Africa" thread, i really believe that even the largest bears would be hunted, a single bear, does not matter how large it is, should be no problem for a lion pride. Now a nomad lion that encounters a large coastal bear is in trouble, that lion will be displaced, it might fight because its a lion, and it will die.

[tom]

Mar 24, 2020 18:01:26 GMT -5 King Kodiak said:

Good thread Tom. The American lion (Panthera Atrox), which was not actually a "lion" but a very close relative, was found from Alaska to Mexico. It also had very undeveloped mane or no mane at all. So a basic evolutionary adaptation to the cold would be a less developed mane for the lions.

See I would have guessed the opposite. Cold climate = heavier mane and larger body size much like the Barbary Lion of north Africa.

[King Kodiak]

You are right, i got it backwards, (very tired from work, lol). The adaptation should be a nice, larger mane, which would offer more protection to the lions. 

[King Kodiak]

Guys, how about the Alaskan wolf? (Canis lupus pambasileus). I would imagine that the lions would want to eliminate competition like they do with hyenas. There would be some nice battles. Of course the lions would dominate. They would displace the wolves and kill them.

[tom]

Or they may learn as Grizzlies have and that is to follow wolves and steal their kills.

[smedz]

If lions lived in Alaska, these are my thoughts.

Deer and Moose would be favorites

Bears of any size would be potential targets. After all, a bear fights like a cat, and once the lions learn that, I do not think they will care how large the bear is. Something else we should take into consideration is the climate, Bergamann's Law. Odds are the Alaskan Lion would have to be bigger than their African and Indian cousins since larger animals lose heat at a slower rate. True, Amur Tigers, which live in much colder climates than their cousins, are no bigger than the Bengal Tigers. This, however, is due to a genetic bottleneck that resulted from past overhunting and the low densities of prey. In Alaska on the other hand, the prey is very plentiful and the conditions are better. So Alaskan Lions might be bigger than African Lions.

I suspect wolves, like Painted Dogs in Africa, would not thrive where lions were common. Even in Russia, wolves do not do well when tiger numbers increase. So I do not see wolves doing well when cold-adapted lions are common.

[King Kodiak]

After all, a bear fights like a cat, 

Woah, woah, woah, woah, whats this supposed to mean? Explain this phrase please.

[brobear]

Neither the African nor the Asiatic lions are well suited for the cold. I agree with smedz that wolf packs would suffer the presents of lions; but would not be eliminated. Would a pride of lionesses attack a 1000+ pound peninsula grizzly? Probably not; or at least after they learn how dangerous a foe he can be. A brotherhood of three or more might, but even they could suffer a loss. Panthera leo has never faced a foe like a coastal brownie, to my knowledge, anywhere in all of history. Once they learn the risks, they might avoid the big boar grizzlies as they would a big bull rhinoceros.
Would a pride of lions attack a bull walrus on the beach?

[King Kodiak]

 I agree with smedz that wolf packs would suffer the presents of lions; but would not be eliminated.

I agree. Like i said above, wolf packs would get dominated by lions, especially in Alaska that the packs are smaller (between 7-9 members). The wolves would get displaced and killed.

Would a pride of lions attack a bull walrus on the beach?

Most likely they will. They have attacked larger elephants than a bull walrus.

[tom]

I think wolf packs would be treated much like Hyenas in Africa. You may have Lions stealing Wolf kills but rarely the other way around. I'm just guessing but a large Hyena clan has probably more members than a Large wolf pack. Could a 15-20 member wolf pack displace a couple Lions feasting on a moose carcass? Possibly, but not a whole pride of Lions.

[tom]

Mar 25, 2020 0:06:53 GMT -5 brobear said:

Would a pride of lions attack a bull walrus on the beach?

IMO Yes, unless that bull Walrus had some of his buddies come to his rescue. I think a pride of Lions could do the job if they use a coordinated attack as they do on Buffalo and other large African Game. It may be a learning experience at first and those early attempts may fail until they learn to deal with those dagger like tusks.