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Post by brobear on Jan 25, 2018 10:18:28 GMT -5
carnivoraforum.com/topic/9333832/1/ Lion - BFQ ca 123.8 / BFQ carn 128.1 Tiger - BFQ ca 130.4 / BFQ carn 129.1 Grizzly - BFQ ca 99.3 / BFQ carn 90.3 *My conclusion: The bite force of a grizzly is roughly three quarters that of a lion or a tiger.
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Post by tom on Jan 25, 2018 11:33:59 GMT -5
Interesting indeed. I would have thought the Grizzly although maybe not AS strong as the Lion or Tiger would have been much closer. 13 of the highest bite forces in the animal kingdom. Interesting that this list has the GRizzlies bite force (PSI) higher than the Siberian or Bengal Tiger?? allon4dentalimplants.org/13-most-dangerous-teeth-in-the-animal-kingdom/Not sure of the authenticity of this list however.
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Post by tom on Jan 25, 2018 11:49:33 GMT -5
carnivoraforum.com/topic/9333832/1/ Lion - BFQ ca 123.8 / BFQ carn 128.1 Tiger - BFQ ca 130.4 / BFQ carn 129.1 Grizzly - BFQ ca 99.3 / BFQ carn 90.3 *My conclusion: The bite force of a grizzly is roughly three quarters that of a lion or a tiger. Not sure what those Abbreviations actually mean to the bite force. PSI (pounds per square inch) is what I've mainly seen as the measuring tool?
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Post by tom on Jan 25, 2018 12:02:17 GMT -5
Here is a interesting article on bite force. However, this article mentions measuring bite force by "Newtons" . www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160817-one-creature-had-a-bite-more-powerful-than-any-otherNot sure how to get live animals to make this study or is it all mathematical? From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)The newton (symbol: N) is the International System of Units (SI) derived unit of force. It is named after Isaac Newton in recognition of his work on classical mechanics, specifically Newton's second law of motion In summary: One newton is the force needed to accelerate one kilogram of mass at the rate of one metre per second squared in direction of the applied force.
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Post by brobear on Jan 26, 2018 4:27:57 GMT -5
Consider that the crocodiles, including caimans and alligators, have the strongest bite force of any living animal. Both the jaguar and the tiger are famous for their ability to overpower and kill these reptiles - ( probably up to a size limit ). Now consider that, in accordance to past historical recorded fights, that even though the big cats have a bite force roughly a quarter stronger than that of a grizzly, the bear always defeats the lion or the tiger. My conclusion: Bite-Force is not a game-changer in a face-off confrontation.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 7:31:37 GMT -5
listverse.com/2012/11/05/top-10-animal-bites-that-will-completely-destroy-you/
10 - Lion - 600 psi.
9 - Tiger - 1050 psi.
8 - Spotted Hyena - 1100 psi.
7 - Grizzly - 1200 psi.
6 - Gorilla - 1300 psi.
5 - Hippo - 1821 psi.
4 - Jaguar - 2000 psi.
3 - Alligator - 2125 psi.
2 - Saltwater Crocodile - 3700 psi.
1 - Nile Crocodile - 5000 psi.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 7:43:22 GMT -5
Considering that, according to recorded bite-force testing among bears, the inland American grizzly has a higher bite-force rating than the coastal salmon-eating giants, perhaps I should reconsider the big cats having a greater bite-force than the grizzly. Of course, the measuring of bite force is not a fool-proof science. How do you get a wild animal to apply every ounce of his strength and powerful into a bite? According to the chart above, the grizzly is equal in bite-force with the gorilla. Both the spotted hyena and the tiger stand equally just below them. All four though are ( IMO ) close enough to be considered equals - considering that bite-force testing is not an exact science.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 7:49:40 GMT -5
www.smallanimalplanet.com/strongest-animal-jaw-strength/This is just one of many online sites depicting animal bite-force. According to this particular site, the grizzly has a stronger bite force than either the lion or the tiger. Even though the grizzly is my favorite, I would have to see further evidence to accept this as fact... Grey Wolf - 406 psi, Lion - 691 psi, Tiger - 950 psi, Hyena - 1100 psi, Grizzly - 1250 psi, and Gorilla - 1300 psi.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 7:58:19 GMT -5
www.allgrizzly.org/skull--dentition Skull and dentition: Bears do not have a skull or dentition that is extreme in any particular regard. They do not have the short snout, long canines, and sharp cheek teeth (i.e., carnassials) that typify the highly specialized cats, nor do they have the high-crowned teeth of herbivores that are adapted to processing browse and forage. Nonetheless, the skulls and teeth of bears have distinctive features. A number of researchers have investigated the ways in which skulls and teeth vary among carnivores and speculated on the implications and reasons why. Leonard Radinsky was perhaps the first to take on this task in a systematic, quantitative way. The most recent--in some ways definitive--analyses have been done by Borja Figueirido. The adapted results of one of his studies are shown in the two figures at left, expressed in terms of what Figueirido and others call "morphospace." The two graphics show a series of stylized skulls and jaws that progressively vary in shape along two key dimensions, each. The features that define each dimension are described by synoptic phrases at each corner, meaning that skulls or jaws progressively trend towards more extreme expressions of these features the closer they are to one end of the gradient or the other. The skull or jaw profiles match these trends. So, what differentiates bears? The morphospace within which you can find bear skulls and jaws is bounded by a brown line containing a brown-shaded filling; a space denoted by the bears' family name: Ursidae. Bear skulls occupy the corner typified by a combination of being wide, domed towards the back, with shorter canines, and with dentition otherwise better adapted to grinding. Bear jaws occupy a corner typified by a forward-facing jaw hinge, a shallow underbite, small canines, and generalized dentition. These features signify a group of species--the bears--with skulls and jaws that are adapted to a generalized diet, meaning that these features facilitate not only modest efficiency at grinding vegetation, but also modest efficiency at capturing and processing mammalian prey. This is in contrast, for example, to the more highly specialized skulls and jaws of other carnivores, including the elongate long-snouted skulls of dogs (Canids) or the powerful skulls and jaws, large canines, and slicing dentition of cats (Felids). Although not exclusively the case, both Felids and Canids tend to be more carnivorous than Ursids. Focusing in on molars, the above graph shows the surface area of the molar teeth relative to body size for various herbivore species, plus the grizzly bear. The point here is that grizzlies have less molar surface area per unit body mass than do most of the herbivorous species treated in this graph (the exception being cattle relative to horses). The implication is: although grizzlies do graze, and sometimes ingest large volumes of foliage, their primary grinding teeth (the molars) are not particularly well-adapted to the task. Again: generalized teeth for a generalized diet. Another take on the configuration of carnivore skulls is offered by Dorren Covey and Walter Greaves. They measured dimensions related to the capacity of the skull to resist torsion, which is a measure of robustness. The results of their work is shown immediately above. Again, bear species are denoted by brown dots. The noteworthy result with regard to bears is: they are not particularly noteworthy (consistent with the results of other analyses, including Figueirido's). On the other hand, Canids (dogs) are consistently deviant in that their long-snouted skulls are perhaps the least resistant to torsion. Hence, unlike the cats, dogs tend to rely less on shear strength of bite to grasp and subdue prey. The figure immediately above provides a bit more information on the distribution and magnitude of the bite force generated by the teeth of various carnivores; work that was done primarily by Per Christiansen. A distinction is made between the bite force delivered by the canines versus the bite force delivered by the cheek teeth (i.e., molars/carnassials). Bite force is represented both in absolute terms (Newtons) as well as in terms standardized to the size of the associated animal. Each dot corresponds to a species, with bears denoted by a brown dot, and each bear species identified by a 3-letter acronym. The line represents a condition where the force delivered by the cheek teeth is equal to the force delivered by the canines. Viewed in absolute terms (Panel B), bite force becomes ever more loaded on the molars or carnassials the greater the force that is delivered. Hence there is a trend downward in the ratio of canine force to molar force as force increases. Also of note, bears along with some of the largest cats deliver the greatest force of all the carnivores. Much of this is a function of size, which means that size matter when it comes to absolute bite force. When standardized to size (Panel A), bears look less extreme. They actually tend to cluster lower down the curve, which means that, given their size, they are less well built to deliver bite force compared to many other carnivore species, especially of the Felids and Canids. The noteworthy exceptions are the polar bear (Uma) and the giant panda (Ame), which is not surprising. The polar bear is the most carnivorous of all bears (meaning, it needs to grasp and hold prey), whereas the panda is the most herbivorous (meaning it needs a powerful bite to grind the bamboo that comprises most of its diet).
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 8:07:12 GMT -5
here are the big cats' bite forces.
By decreasing order:
1) Tiger 1234,3 N 2) Lion 1198,6 N 3)Jaguar 879.5 N 4)Leopard 558,6 N 5) Puma 499,6 N 6) Snow leopard 363 N 7) Clouded leopard 344,2 N
-This was from Spalea to Apollo, so I'm sure its accurate. Not sure about meaning of "N" though.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 8:20:15 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 8:49:44 GMT -5
prezi.com/sqlzo-5huqyi/comparative-anatomy-study-grizzly-bear-vs-human/ Transcript of Comparative Anatomy Study: Grizzly Bear vs. Human Comparative Anatomy Study: Grizzly Bear vs. Human By Carson and Lynn Muscular System Grizzly bears have a greater bite force masseter, temporalis, lateral and medial pterygoid -mastication muscles (Varun, 2008) 1200 PSI (Jim, 2012) Humans have a remarkable bite force too. 7.584 PSI (Yong, 2010)
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 9:08:46 GMT -5
FACT: It appears to be common accepted knowledge that the bite-force of a grizzly measures in at: 1200 psi. Size of bears in studies unknown - and it doesn't matter. The mere fact that the difference in bite-force between tiger and grizzly is minimal and certainly not a game-changer for either in a face-off confrontation.
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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2018 5:26:20 GMT -5
dogfacts.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/national-geographics-dr-brady-barrs-bite-pressure-tests/ National Geographic’s Dr. Brady Barr’s Bite Pressure Tests Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic (Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force, 8pm est 8/18/2005) – Dr. Barr measured bite forces of many different creatures. Domestic dogs were included in the test. Here are the results of all of the animals tested: Humans: 120 pounds of bite pressure Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepherd Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT), and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested. Wild dogs: 310 lbs Lions: 600 lbs White sharks: 600 lbs Hyenas: 1000 lbs Snapping turtles: 1000 lbs Crocodiles: 2500 lbs Nat. Geo actually did a follow-up on this first special, “The Big Bite II-Dangerous Encounters”. Using the same techniques, Dr. Barr tested some other animals, including a Hyacinth McCaw(parrot), a Tasmanian Devil, a Savanah monitor lizard, a Nurse shark and a large Alpha male wolf. The wolf’s bite was a bit over 400 pounds p.s.i, making it the strongest biter of the canids, but the two-pound McCaw nearly equaled that 100+ pound wolf, with a bite force of 375 p.s.i, and it did not appear to be doing anything more than just playing around with the bite meter instrument, as it was a tame bird! In the first bite-force special, the APBT (which DID appear to be biting that sleeve for all it was worth, a good “full-mouth” bite)managed only 127 p.s.i, just seven pounds more than the HUMAN tested! In the second special, Dr. Barr was convinced that the young crocodile he’d tested was not performing up to snuff in its bite, since all the crocodilians he’d tested had all been freshly-caught specimens, which were exhausted after a struggle. He tested the device again on a 18-foot wild male Nile croc, in the wild, unrestrained, that was brumating in a den on an African river bank to escape the daytime heat, by actually crawling down the burrow himself! That animal managed, with a single bite, to exert a pressure of over SIX THOUSAND pounds per square inch, making it the most powerful bite of any animal, ever recorded. Nat. Geo channel does state that a DVD or CD-ROM of the programming is available upon request. The names of these two documentaries are “Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force” and “Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force 2”, both with Dr. Brady Barr. Here’s a link to Nat. Geo’s customer service, and they might be able to help; maybe at least transcrips will be available.
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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2018 5:37:43 GMT -5
animalsake.com/animals-with-most-powerful-bite-force Tasmanian Devil - 181 psi. Lion - 650 psi. Grizzly - 975 psi. Tiger - 1050 psi. Spotted Hyena - 1100 psi. Gorilla - 1300 psi. Jaguar - 1350 psi. Hippopotamus - 1825 psi. Alligator - 2125 psi. Salty Crocodile - 3700 psi. Great White Shark- 4000 psi.
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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2018 5:41:36 GMT -5
www.strongest.tv/strongest-animal-bites/ Rank Animal Name Bite Force in psi 1 Nile Crocodile 5000 2 Saltwater Crocodile 3700 3 American Alligator 2125 4 Hippopotamus 1800 5 Jaguar 1500 6 Bull Shark 1350 7 Gorilla 1300 8 Polar Bear 1200 9 Grizzly Bear 1160 10 Hyena 1100
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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2018 5:48:55 GMT -5
I have randomly found several of these "studies" which place the bite-force of the polar bear above that of the grizzly. I have also read from scientific studies of the head-skull-and-jaws of the bears that the grizzly has the stronger jaws. Perhaps the King of the Far North has a stronger bite than estimated by observing the anatomy. It would be interesting if an "actual study" can be found and posted here.
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Post by tom on Jan 31, 2018 9:58:01 GMT -5
I have randomly found several of these "studies" which place the bite-force of the polar bear above that of the grizzly. I have also read from scientific studies of the head-skull-and-jaws of the bears that the grizzly has the stronger jaws. Perhaps the King of the Far North has a stronger bite than estimated by observing the anatomy. It would be interesting if an "actual study" can be found and posted here. It would, however other than sharks or maybe Crocs it would be extremely difficult to setup and perform one accurately with any other animal. I personally think many of these claims on bite force are theory more than solid evidence.
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Post by brobear on Jan 31, 2018 10:50:15 GMT -5
I agree Tom. We never see any actual testing online. We only read the so-called results. Perhaps there is some fairly accurate estimations; but that's a maybe.
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Post by brobear on Feb 26, 2018 5:21:53 GMT -5
The teeth of the big cats are designed for killing; no doubt about it. Lions and tigers have longer canine teeth than a grizzly. As for being deep-rooted; grizzly also. The grizzly has thick canines designed for brawling. Given a choice, I would rather receive a bite from a grizzly than from a lion or a tiger. However, teeth and bite-force are just one advantage of many advantages or disadvantages that add up to a winner in a fight between two wild animal species. Bite-force is simply not a game changer. Among the eight species of bears, the grizzly has the most powerful bite ( although not at size parity ). His jaws can inflict considerable damage.
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