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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 29, 2022 15:37:49 GMT -5
Above we see a large male cougar and what appears to be a large male black bear in California; the black bear's neck girth should roughly equal the cougar's chest girth. There are another two animals where this more or less happens to be the case: large male brown bears and large male tigers (in case you didn't know, the thickest neck ever measured on a brown bear had a circumference of 152cm).
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Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2022 16:25:12 GMT -5
Greatest neck girth of a male brown bear actually measured: 152 cm or 59.84 inches (just short of 5 feet). *Thanks 'Taker.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 21, 2023 7:16:36 GMT -5
Reply 700. The American black bear is just too big. Even at size parity, the bear will be heavier in weight due to its chest girth etc.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jan 31, 2023 6:43:34 GMT -5
I have to correct myself regarding the 60in neck girth figure for a male brown bear; this would equate to 152cm. I looked into the actual data for coastal grizzlies and 5 prime aged males at a weight of 389kg had a neck girth of ~95cm. Which would mean that the biggest brown bears on our planet would be around 120cm around the neck; 60in must be a straight-up lie. The only bears capable of having a neck girth of that mark would be the prehistoric Arctodus simus, Arcotherium angustidens, Ursus ingressus and possibly Ursus arctos priscus. I'm 100% sure that the hunters selling the 60in figure randomly added 2ft to the neck in order to sell their prize sized bear. The bear measured 259cm over the curves which is quite big but not anything exceptional as there are a few individuals measuring over 3 metres over the curves. The reality is that this individual was a bear of big size but nothing out of the ordinary; he had quite a huge head and that was it.
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Post by brobear on Feb 8, 2023 9:38:07 GMT -5
I often read posts claiming that cats are long-bodied and bears are short-bodied. However, if they have the same number of vertebrate, wouldn't this mean that the build of the animal and the length of its legs causes one to appear longer of build than the other?
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Post by Granolah on Mar 18, 2023 22:08:29 GMT -5
You guys posted most of the good stuff. Bears have stronger canine strength ( Christiansen, and Adolfssen, 2005.) books.google.com/books?id=s6loDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA268&dq=ursids+bite+felids&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio65iXuZL1AhWwaDABHfFlDbcQ6AF6BAgFEAMAmong canids, felids, and ursids, canine bending strength increases with body size and, for a given body size, is greater among felids than among canids or ursids but, in relation to bite force, canine strengths are similar in canids and felids and slightly higher in ursids ( Christiansen and Adolfssen, 2005.)
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Post by yz on Mar 19, 2023 14:30:53 GMT -5
I often read posts claiming that cats are long-bodied and bears are short-bodied. However, if they have the same number of vertebrate, wouldn't this mean that the build of the animal and the length of its legs causes one to appear longer of build than the other? I will have to look more into it
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Post by brobear on Jun 8, 2023 9:53:03 GMT -5
LIMB ROBUSTICITY STUDY www.researchgate.net/publication/20806549_Differential_scaling_of_the_long_bones_in_the_terrestrial_carnivora_and_other_mammals MORE ROBUST LIMBS = STRONGER LIMBS ML-diameters of all four major limb bones Brown Bear - 40.97% Lion - 36.86% BEARS HAVE MORE POWERFUL BICEPS MUSCLES THAN THOSE OF FELIDS: "Among these traits, the intertubercular groove morphology has interesting functional implications: the tendon of the muscle biceps brachii runs into this groove, with the transversal humeral ligament (developed between both the greater and the lesser tubercles) keeping the tendon in place inside the groove (Evans 1993; Barone 2010). As described previously, the shape of the intertubercular groove is similar in canids, felids, and amphicyonids in general (thus including M. anceps), it being markedly different from that of ursids, which have a much more closed, canal-like groove (Fig. 6). Taylor (1974) associated this character with both the power of the muscle biceps brachii and the degree of usage: a clearly defined intertubercular groove, such as that of ursids, would allow a better control of movements, and probably a powerful muscle. According to Taylor (1974) the nandiniid Nandinia binotata, which shows an ursid-like groove, employs this muscle to a much greater degree than the viverrid Civettictis civetta (with a much more open groove) and this would be related to the greater climbing ability of the former."
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Post by brobear on Jun 8, 2023 9:54:35 GMT -5
BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: A universal scaling relationship between body mass and proximal limb bone dimensions in quadrupedal terrestrial tetrapods BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: Ranking of Humeri Robusticity 1. Grizzly bear: 0.365 2. Black bear: 0.343 3. Siberian tiger: 0.323 4. Jaguar: 0.318 5. Lion: 0.317 6. Leopard: 0.310 7. Bengal tiger: 0.303 8. Cougar: 0.283 *Note; perhaps contrary to popular belief, the Bengal might not be the strongest tiger subspecies.
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Post by yz on Jun 9, 2023 9:51:12 GMT -5
BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: A universal scaling relationship between body mass and proximal limb bone dimensions in quadrupedal terrestrial tetrapods BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: Ranking of Humeri Robusticity 1. Grizzly bear: 0.365 2. Black bear: 0.343 3. Siberian tiger: 0.323 4. Jaguar: 0.318 5. Lion: 0.317 6. Leopard: 0.310 7. Bengal tiger: 0.303 8. Cougar: 0.283 *Note; perhaps contrary to popular belief, the Bengal might not be the strongest tiger subspecies. There was only one individual per species in this study so tbh i don't think it is conclusive. more samples from other studies definitely give the edge to bears though.
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Post by brobear on Jun 9, 2023 10:24:11 GMT -5
BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: A universal scaling relationship between body mass and proximal limb bone dimensions in quadrupedal terrestrial tetrapods BEARS HAVE MORE ROBUST HUMERI THAN BIG CATS: Ranking of Humeri Robusticity 1. Grizzly bear: 0.365 2. Black bear: 0.343 3. Siberian tiger: 0.323 4. Jaguar: 0.318 5. Lion: 0.317 6. Leopard: 0.310 7. Bengal tiger: 0.303 8. Cougar: 0.283 *Note; perhaps contrary to popular belief, the Bengal might not be the strongest tiger subspecies. There was only one individual per species in this study so tbh i don't think it is conclusive. more samples from other studies definitely give the edge to bears though. IF that is true, and I don't doubt you yz, then this is a very poorly handled study.
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Post by brobear on Jul 25, 2023 5:08:36 GMT -5
From reply #314: www.allgrizzly.org/front-limbsCredited to Warsaw. If you see the word seals it could probably mean bearded seals and walruses which are part of the seal family. This means that despite the fact the bear of the north is not as strong as the brown bear pound to pound,the polar bear is stronger than any tiger, lion, smilodon, american lion, and cave lion even at parity. And... from reply 337: The smilodon and american lion's have bigger bones than the tiger and lion and considered more bear-like. Brown bears and polar bears in turn have bigger and stronger bones than smilodons and american lions. *Nice to see that these facts are a known fact. Just a little reminder.
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Post by brobear on Jul 25, 2023 5:10:50 GMT -5
mytakeontv.wordpress.com/2009/05...-anderson/ What is something that you learned in spending the year with Grizzlies that has affected your daily life going forward? Insight from Brutus: if it is physically possible, then it is done. If not, it isn’t. After weighing a boulder in at one ton, we used a tractor to lift it to place a piece of salmon under it. Soon after, Brutus caught the scent of the salmon and walked to the boulder. In one swift move, he pushed the boulder to the side and happily devoured the salmon. It dawned on me as I stood next to my friend: he doesn’t worry much; he is not handicapped by his mind. If his body isn’t capable of doing it, then that is his only limitation. He does not sit there and contemplate, or make excuses; he just does all he can. Then goes and takes a nap in the sunshine. How great would it be if we could all live that way? *I honestly believe, if a biologist were to place fish or any other bait beneath a one-ton boulder, neither a lion nor a tiger would be capable of even budging the 2,000 pound rock. Just a little reminder.
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