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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 8, 2019 7:51:08 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Nov 8, 2019 8:36:28 GMT -5
Reactions of bears varied. One brown bear traveling through a region continuously inhabited by a tiger appeared to feel completely at home there. A different brown bear however, changed his route sharply after crossing tiger tracks. A large male black bear ( nearly the size of a brown bear ) was visually observed and appeared completely unperturbed walking in the tracks of a tiger and even using the same bear sites. First of all, every ( and I do mean every ) person who studies bears will tell you that bears are highly individualistic - as much so as humans. Perhaps the grizzly that showed fear at the sight ( and scent ) of the tiger tracks was simply a cowardly bear. Or, perhaps he was a young adult and carried some vivid recollections of past frightening experiences with a tiger ( PDSD ). But I can well remember how the big cat fan-boys all loved to post this one - but not the others. The grizzly who was completely comfortable at having a tiger living within his domain was a typical mature male grizzly. Having a tiger there means to him ( the bear ) food opportunities. This behavior is also most likely typical for a large 400+ pound black bear as well.
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Post by brobear on Nov 8, 2019 12:48:07 GMT -5
Watch this ( again ). The Asiatic black bear ( smaller than the lion ) stays focused. The lion is continuously looking around for an escape route. In the end, the lion is huddled into a "hole-in-the-wall".
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 8, 2019 18:10:29 GMT -5
Watch this ( again ). The Asiatic black bear ( smaller than the lion ) stays focused. The lion is continuously looking around for an escape route. In the end, the lion is huddled into a "hole-in-the-wall". Wow, very true Brobear. I have seen this video before but i never realized those details. You are right, the lion wanted to escape. It was a lioness, but in the comment section someone said the bear was declawed.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 8, 2019 23:02:07 GMT -5
The 'declawed' black bear still did well.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 9, 2019 0:43:46 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 9, 2019 0:46:55 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Nov 9, 2019 1:02:18 GMT -5
Obviously, the tiger had ambushed either an adult male or an adult female moon bear, and found the bear not to be an easy kill.
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Post by brobear on Nov 9, 2019 1:08:21 GMT -5
Agreed. The Ussuri brown bear - Amur brown bear - black grizzly, is all the same bear ( Ursus arctos lasiotus ). Genetically linked to our American grizzlies by the way. But yes, having taken place in India, the "large male bear" was obviously a big Asiatic black bear. Another ambush ending in a fight... ( if this story came from a reliable source ).
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Post by brobear on Nov 9, 2019 1:41:42 GMT -5
The 'declawed' black bear still did well. A close look shows that the bear has his claws. Whoever came up with that notion probably was expecting long claws like those of a sloth bear or a grizzly. Black bears, both Asiatic and American have cat-like short hooked claws designed for climbing trees.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 9, 2019 6:03:41 GMT -5
The 'declawed' black bear still did well. A close look shows that the bear has his claws. Whoever came up with that notion probably was expecting long claws like those of a sloth bear or a grizzly. Black bears, both Asiatic and American have cat-like short hooked claws designed for climbing trees. Oh ok cool. Someone in the comment section of that video said the bear was declawed, but you are right.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 9, 2019 11:16:01 GMT -5
Agreed. The Ussuri brown bear - Amur brown bear - black grizzly, is all the same bear ( Ursus arctos lasiotus ). Genetically linked to our American grizzlies by the way. But yes, having taken place in India, the "large male bear" was obviously a big Asiatic black bear. Another ambush ending in a fight... ( if this story came from a reliable source ). Well, the fight could have started out as an ambush like tigers almost always do, but we dont know that. What we do know is that it was a "prolonged fight" , so the tiger actually killed that large Asiatic black bear in a head on fight, i will give the tiger that one. Still not many accounts like this of tigers winning face to face, maybe less than 10 with a description of a "fight". Anyhow, in that account it states....
"A THING WHICH I HAD NEVER KNOWN TO OCCUR BEFORE IN ALL MY EXPERIECE"
So definitely a very rare event, at least for the witness of that fight.
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Post by brobear on Nov 10, 2019 0:49:15 GMT -5
This fight could have taken place for ( IMO ) only two ways. Either the bear was ambushed as potential prey or the bear challenged a big male tiger for his kill. A tiger will never challenge a bear head-on when hunting. This will always start out as an attack from behind, but because of the bear's durability, will often escalade into a fight.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 10, 2019 7:30:24 GMT -5
This fight could have taken place for ( IMO ) only two ways. Either the bear was ambushed as potential prey or the bear challenged a big male tiger for his kill. A tiger will never challenge a bear head-on when hunting. This will always start out as an attack from behind, but because of the bear's durability, will often escalade into a fight. Yes, you are right. Could had been similar to the Dale vs the female brown bear fight, that started as an ambush and lasted 20 minutes. Anyhow, the fights were prolonged so we have to give these 2 cases of tigers winning in face to face fights. In the Dale case, he was a bit larger than the female bear, 445 lbs vs 440 lbs, and in the case posted above, a bengal tiger can still be larger than a "large male" Asiatic black bear. Or maybe about similar weight.
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Post by brobear on Nov 10, 2019 7:44:45 GMT -5
Yes, we give credit to the tiger for winning in a fight with a bear - in both cases - with a grain of salt - as we have no idea of damage received by the bear in the initial attack. When a tiger ambushes a bear, the tiger holds on with those big meat-hook claws ( up to four inches ) and kills with a bite to the base of the neck. Sometimes, being both very strong and durable, the bear is able to fight free of the big cats hold. But there is bound to be damage received during the struggle.
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Post by brobear on Nov 14, 2019 10:01:55 GMT -5
BEARS by Richard Perry:
In the Himalayas, a case occurs from time to time of a tiger preying on bears, both black and brown. Nevertheless, some of the very large black bears of that region are powerful enough to achieve the incredible and defeat a tiger in a fair fight. Jim Corbett watched a tiger and an exceptionally large black bear fighting over the former's kill. His account of this unique experience throws a most unexpected light on the bearas a predator. The tiger had been eating for a quarter of an hour when Corbett caught sight of the bear strolling along the crest of the hill:
Suddenly he stopped, turned facing downhill, and lay flat. After a minute or two he raised his head, sniffed the wind, and lay flat. The wind was blowing uphill and the bear caught the scent of flesh and blood, mingled with the scent of the tiger. Presently he got to his feet and, with bent legs and body held close to the ground, started to stalk the tiger. He had possibly two hundred yards to go and though he was not built for stalking, he covered the distance as smoothly as a snake and as silently as a shadow. The nearer he got the more cautious he became. I could see the lip of the fifteen-foot drop into the hole, and when the bear got to within a few feet of this spot he drew himself along with belly to ground. Waiting until the tiger was eating with much gusto the bear very slowly projected his head over the lip of the hole and looked down, and then as slowly drew his head back. His opportunity came when the tiger was cracking a bone. The bear drew himself to the edge and, gathering his feet under him, launched himself into the hole with a mighty scream - to be answered by an even mightier roar from the tiger. The fight may have lasted three minutes, or it may have lasted longer. Anyway, the tiger broke off the engagement and came along the open ground in front of me at a fast gallop, closely followed by the still screaming bear. Blood from a number of deep cuts seeping through the thick fur on his neck and in several places his scalp was torn right down to the bone, his nose being torn in half.
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Post by BruteStrength on Nov 17, 2019 0:14:55 GMT -5
In my opinion for a moon bear to have a chance with a tiger and live we will have to use a specimen that is 440 pounds (which is the biggest for adult males) to go up against a 475 pound tiger. 475 is the historical average weight for a male siberian tiger. Who do you guys think will prevail more in this fight between 2 males of these exact sizes?
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Post by brobear on Nov 17, 2019 2:28:11 GMT -5
In my opinion for a moon bear to have a chance with a tiger and live we will have to use a specimen that is 440 pounds (which is the biggest for adult males) to go up against a 475 pound tiger. 475 is the historical average weight for a male siberian tiger. Who do you guys think will prevail more in this fight between 2 males of these exact sizes? There are no Amur tigers in Russia too big for a big male black bear. Giver a chance, if the black bear, regardless of his size, spots the tiger in time, he will scurry up a tree. If there is no time and he faces the tiger, the tiger is not likely to press an attack. If there is a fight; by nickel is on the bear. But - and I can't stress this enough - bears are highly individualistic. Where one big male black bear will stand his ground, another might run. If the bear runs, the tiger will pursue him. This could possibly lead to an ambush attack.
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Post by BruteStrength on Nov 17, 2019 2:55:50 GMT -5
In my opinion for a moon bear to have a chance with a tiger and live we will have to use a specimen that is 440 pounds (which is the biggest for adult males) to go up against a 475 pound tiger. 475 is the historical average weight for a male siberian tiger. Who do you guys think will prevail more in this fight between 2 males of these exact sizes? There are no Amur tigers in Russia too big for a big male black bear. Giver a chance, if the black bear, regardless of his size, spots the tiger in time, he will scurry up a tree. If there is no time and he faces the tiger, the tiger is not likely to press an attack. If there is a fight; by nickel is on the bear. But - and I can't stress this enough - bears are highly individualistic. Where one big male black bear will stand his ground, another might run. If the bear runs, the tiger will pursue him. This could possibly lead to an ambush attack. So you think the bear will prevail in the long run. I favor the bear too if the bear is a large bear or close to the tiger weight. Exactly every bear has their own personality.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 18, 2019 5:18:29 GMT -5
Yes, good accounts you just posted. They definitely go in this thread. We have an Ussuri brown bear, and a Himalayan black bear not fearing tigers.
Actually, in the second article, Jim Corbett is talking about a Himalayan black bear (Ursus thibetanus laniger). He is talking about this famous account here:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/8742/thread
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