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Post by brobear on Oct 7, 2018 8:41:47 GMT -5
bigcatrescue.org/himalayan-bear-killed-by-tiger/ Himalayan bear killed by tiger NOVEMBER 11, 2009 11 November, 2009 – In the first recorded incident of its kind in Bhutan, a Himalayan black bear was killed and eaten by a royal Bengal tiger in the Jigme Dorji national park. The carcass of the bear, with only its head, skin and paws remaining, was discovered by a team of foresters in Domenda, two days walk from Dodena in Thimphu, on November 7 at an altitude of 4,079 m. The kill has thrown up several questions on tigers being found at such high altitudes in winter, the relationship between bears and tigers in Bhutan’s wild and the implications of the tiger’s presence on the snow leopard habitat. “It’s a confirmed kill by a royal Bengal tiger, since there are canine puncture marks on the bear’s throat and spine, as well as tiger claw marks lacerating the bears face and tiger pug marks in the area,” said Phub Tshering, the JDNP park beat officer, who discovered the carcass. He said that there were also signs of struggle between the bear and the tiger with rhododendrons bushes uprooted and claw marks on trees. “Usually the Himalayan black bear is a powerful foe for any tiger and they avoid each other, but here the bear seems to be a juvenile at 2-3 years and hence did not have the muscle and fighting abilities it gets by the time it reaches its adult age of 5 years,” said Dr Sonam Wangyel, the chief forestry officer and wildlife biologist. He said that it was likely that the two animals met accidentally. Phub Tshering said that some people, who were on tsam in the area, said that they had seen the same bear feeding on berries in late October. They also noticed tiger pug marks in the same area. “We have, for the last three years, started noting multiple signs of the presence of tigers in such high altitude areas, ” said Phub Tshering. Dr Sonam Wangyel said that, though there was no conclusive proof, it is possible that due to climate change the tree line was being pushed higher giving cover to the tiger. “This may also be due to shrinking and disturbed habitat at lower altitudes and hence the mountains may be the only undisturbed areas for the tiger,” he said. However, the real impact of tigers moving higher could be on the snow leopard, whose own snowline habitat could be shrinking. He said that clear scientific evidence was needed to establish the above hypothesis. The incident has also given a peek into the relationship between the Himalayan black bear and the royal Bengal tiger. In a camera trap set up in Nabji in 2006, it was found that a bull killed by a tiger was also being fed on by a bear at alternate intervals. “One day, the bear took away the whole carcass and the camera captured a bewildered look on the face of the tiger when it came back to feed again. The bear could be benefiting from the tigers kills,” said Dr Sonam. He said in the wild carnivores would try to eliminate competition and the bear killed may have been a potential competitor. “Though it happens, this is rare incident since the tiger usually goes after smaller, less aggressive and weaker prey,” he said. He also said that it was possible that tigers would be coming to these heights to cross into other valleys and that more of them were being detected due to better detection devices. Old data show that around 115-150 tigers are found in Bhutan on the basis of sightings. www.kuenselonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13949bigcatrescue.org
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 7, 2018 9:36:15 GMT -5
Yes i think we discussed that account already in another thread, a 2-3 year old Himalayan black bear, first recorded incident in Bhutan.
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Post by brobear on Oct 7, 2018 13:43:00 GMT -5
Yes i think we discussed that account already in another thread, a 2-3 year old Himalayan black bear, first recorded incident in Bhutan. Yeah, its old news, but interesting facts: “Usually the Himalayan black bear is a powerful foe for any tiger and they avoid each other."
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 7, 2018 14:02:10 GMT -5
Yes, that definately is very interesting. Himalayan black bears average is from 200 to 265 lbs, max weight is 400 lbs.
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Post by brobear on Oct 19, 2018 5:59:55 GMT -5
Well, this is a start. I have read the complete tale many times online. We just have to locate it... kids.kiddle.co/Asian_black_bear Interspecific predatory relationships Asiatic black bears may be occasionally attacked by tigers and brown bears, although leopards, and packs of wolves and dholes can also be threats. Eurasian lynxes are a potential predator of cubs. Black bears usually dominate Amur leopards in physical confrontations in heavily vegetated areas, while leopards are uppermost in open areas, though the outcome of such encounters is largely dependent on the size of the individual animals. Leopards have been known to prey on cubs younger than two years old. The Asiatic black bear's range overlaps with that of sloth bears in central and southern India, sun bears in Southeast Asia and brown bears in the southern part of the Russian Far East. Ussuri brown bears may attack black bears, though Himalayan brown bears seem to be intimidated by the black species in direct encounters. They will eat the fruit dropped by black bears from trees, as they themselves are too large and cumbersome to climb. The Asiatic black bear's range overlaps with that of sloth bears in central and southern India, sun bears in Southeast Asia and brown bears in the southern part of the Russian Far East. Ussuri brown bears may attack black bears, though Himalayan brown bears seem to be intimidated by the black species in direct encounters. They will eat the fruit dropped by black bears from trees, as they themselves are too large and cumbersome to climb. Tigers will occasionally prey on black bears. Russian hunters may occasionally find black bear carcasses showing evidence of tiger predation, and their remains may occur in tiger scats. If they manage to escape a tiger, black bears will attempt to rush up a tree and wait for the tiger to leave, though some tigers will pretend to leave, and wait for the bear to descend. One Manchurian tiger was reported to have lured an Asiatic black bear by imitating the species' mating call. Tigers regularly prey on young bears but adult bears are occasionally taken as well. Black bears are usually safe from tiger attacks once they reach five years of age. Although black bears prefer to avoid tigers, they can be extremely tenacious when attacked: Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. However, black bears may be less vulnerable than brown bears to tiger predation, due to their habit of living in hollows or in close set rocks, thus making them harder to pursue. At least one fatal attack on a juvenile bear has been recorded in Jigme Dorji National Park, as Bhutan's tiger populations have begun to colonise higher altitude areas. Black bears may steal tiger kills: Jim Corbett twice saw black bears carry off tiger kills when the latter was absent.
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Post by brobear on Dec 18, 2018 7:03:19 GMT -5
I was just thinking... we have read of how a full-grown male Asiatic black bear will walk about in the domain of a tiger seemingly without fear. I would wager that he tries to avoid the domain of the Boss of the Woods - a big boar grizzly.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 18, 2018 7:15:03 GMT -5
I was just thinking... we have read of how a full-grown male Asiatic black bear will walk about in the domain of a tiger seemingly without fear. I would wager that he tries to avoid the domain of the Boss of the Woods - a big boar grizzly. Not only walk, but sometimes chase the tiger off their kill. I think so too, black bears know who runs the show in the woods, the accounts of the fights between the two show it.
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Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2018 4:45:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it's available only in Russian.(page 18,19).Conclusion of this study (page 18 and 19) is that large male black bear (not "average" is a dangerous adversary for any tigers. shaggygod.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tigers&action=display&thread=706&page=1This paper (page18,19)also indirectly confirms below quoted text: “...Usually the Himalayan black bear is a powerful foe for any tiger and they avoid each other, but here the bear seems to be a juvenile at 2-3 years and hence did not have the muscle and fighting abilities it gets by the time it reaches its adult age of 5 years,” said Dr Sonam Wangyel, the chief forestry officer and wildlife biologist. He said that it was likely that the two animals met accidentally..." www.bhutan-italy.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=69"...Himalayan (or Asiatic black) bear (which we observed visually), like the brown bear that has already been mentioned, clearly did not fear the presence of tigers. He walked along the tiger's tracks and rested in the same wild boar den as did the tiger..." tigers.ru/books/ecolog/ch12_en.html
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 22, 2019 3:54:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 8:05:53 GMT -5
Big male himalayan or asiatic black bears can actually fight off tigers although the pantherine will be able to prey on the average black bear specimen.
I personally believe a male black bear is the largest male bear specimen a tiger can kill or at least fight with while the largest brown bear specimen killed by the siberian tiger are females and sub adults.
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Post by brobear on Feb 11, 2019 8:16:34 GMT -5
Big male himalayan or asiatic black bears can actually fight off tigers although the pantherine will be able to prey on the average black bear specimen. I personally believe a male black bear is the largest male bear specimen a tiger can kill or at least fight with while the largest brown bear specimen killed by the siberian tiger are females and sub adults. In all honesty, I have seen no direct evidence that tigers ( Amur, Bengal, or other ) actually prey upon mature male Asiatic black bears. I'm not saying that they don't but that is has not been proven to me.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 11, 2019 17:03:32 GMT -5
Black bears are about 7% of Amur tiger’s diet. The average weight is 300 lbs, max weight is about 440 lbs. obviously the predation percentage is much higher than brown bears which is only about 1.5%. Adult males sometimes are predated on, but not many. Same situation as the adult female brown bears. All this of course, mostly by ambush. (Check page 1 of this thread).
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 11, 2019 19:58:48 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2019 19:35:48 GMT -5
Once posted by Warsaw... I would like to know the book title and author. In Asia, no doubt Asiatic black bears. In California, American black bears.
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Post by brobear on Feb 23, 2019 13:14:09 GMT -5
Interspecific predatory relationships - www.wikiwand.com/en/Asian_black_bear#/Interspecific_predatory_relationshipsAsiatic black bears may be occasionally attacked by tigers and brown bears, although leopards, and packs of wolves and dholes can also be threats. Eurasian lynxes are a potential predator of cubs. Black bears usually dominate Amur leopards in physical confrontations in heavily vegetated areas, while leopards are uppermost in open areas, though the outcome of such encounters is largely dependent on the size of the individual animals. Leopards have been known to prey on cubs younger than two years old. The Asiatic black bear's range overlaps with that of sloth bears in central and southern India, sun bears in Southeast Asia and brown bears in the southern part of the Russian Far East. Ussuri brown bears may attack black bears, though Himalayan brown bears seem to be intimidated by the black species in direct encounters. They will eat the fruit dropped by black bears from trees, as they themselves are too large and cumbersome to climb. Tigers will occasionally prey on black bears. Russian hunters may occasionally find black bear carcasses showing evidence of tiger predation, and their remains may occur in tiger scats. If they manage to escape a tiger, black bears will attempt to rush up a tree and wait for the tiger to leave, though some tigers will pretend to leave, and wait for the bear to descend. One Manchurian tiger was reported to have lured an Asiatic black bear by imitating the species' mating call. Tigers regularly prey on young bears but adult bears are occasionally taken as well. Black bears are usually safe from tiger attacks once they reach five years of age. Although black bears prefer to avoid tigers, they can be extremely tenacious when attacked: Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. However, black bears may be less vulnerable than brown bears to tiger predation, due to their habit of living in hollows or in close set rocks, thus making them harder to pursue. At least one fatal attack on a juvenile bear has been recorded in Jigme Dorji National Park, as Bhutan's tiger populations have begun to colonise higher altitude areas. Black bears may steal tiger kills: Jim Corbett twice saw black bears carry off tiger kills when the latter was absent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 7:10:05 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_black_bear#Interspecific_predatory_relationships Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. However, black bears may be less vulnerable than brown bears to tiger predation, due to their habit of living in hollows or in close set rocks, thus making them harder to pursue. At least one fatal attack on a juvenile bear has been recorded in Jigme Dorji National Park, as Bhutan's tiger populations have begun to colonise higher altitude areas. Black bears may steal tiger kills: Jim Corbett twice saw black bears carry off tiger kills when the latter was absent. how heavy was that black bear? Exceptionally large american black bear can weigh from 600 to 800 pounds. I think asiatic black bears weigh 500 pounds for an exceptionally large male.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 24, 2019 7:16:46 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_black_bear#Interspecific_predatory_relationships Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. However, black bears may be less vulnerable than brown bears to tiger predation, due to their habit of living in hollows or in close set rocks, thus making them harder to pursue. At least one fatal attack on a juvenile bear has been recorded in Jigme Dorji National Park, as Bhutan's tiger populations have begun to colonise higher altitude areas. Black bears may steal tiger kills: Jim Corbett twice saw black bears carry off tiger kills when the latter was absent. how heavy was that black bear? Exceptionally large american black bear can weigh from 600 to 800 pounds. I think asiatic black bears weigh 500 pounds for an exceptionally large male. “Great big Himalayan black bear” does not say the weight.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 24, 2019 7:30:08 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 24, 2019 7:34:28 GMT -5
Ok, this is not the best account for this thread because in this case, the large male tiger defended its kill for a while, there was a fight lasting about 3 minutes. He defended probably because it was a large male tiger of course. Adult male tigers WILL fight and defend their kills. At the end he lost the kill and got chased away though.
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