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Post by brobear on Mar 2, 2020 19:04:48 GMT -5
I wish one of you fine upstanding computer wizards would create a size comparison picture of Kodiak Bear vs Sumatran Rhinoceros.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 3, 2020 5:33:45 GMT -5
I wish one of you fine upstanding computer wizards would create a size comparison picture of Kodiak Bear vs Sumatran Rhinoceros. I would love to see that also. I dont think no one here could. Where is Gurahl when you need him?
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 8, 2020 17:55:17 GMT -5
Ok cool, at least you tried. Thanks. We can compare somewhat with that. That is a "dehorn" rhino. That means they took his horn out so that poachers wont target him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 17:58:30 GMT -5
Thanks it is also a bit hard to find good images of sumatran rhinos
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 17:59:19 GMT -5
Ok cool, at least you tried. Thanks. We can compare somewhat with that. That is a "dehorn" rhino. That means they took his horn out so that poachers wont target him. Correct Dehorning rhinos is common They do it more on white rhinos
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Post by brobear on Mar 9, 2020 3:35:45 GMT -5
I am seeing NOTHING.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 9, 2020 4:27:51 GMT -5
Kingursus, did you delete the comparison you made?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 4:31:43 GMT -5
No it is there for me I can clearly see it
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Post by brobear on Mar 9, 2020 4:38:15 GMT -5
No it is there for me I can clearly see it I see nothing there? I hope that you can fix this problem. I'd really like to see this.
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Post by brobear on Mar 9, 2020 5:01:29 GMT -5
Well, a very good picture of an African white rhino and a brown bear. But this is not a size-comparison picture. Here is an example:
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Post by brobear on Mar 9, 2020 5:03:58 GMT -5
Sumatran rhinoceros.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 5:11:50 GMT -5
Sorry I will try to make a better one
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Post by brobear on Mar 9, 2020 5:21:55 GMT -5
Sorry I will try to make a better one Apology unnecessary. Thank you for trying. If you can create one: fantastic! If not, then you are doing as good as the rest of us.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 3, 2020 16:46:47 GMT -5
At those weights, the rhino would win more often, this is obvious. At same weight, we have established that it would be 50%.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 3, 2020 16:51:32 GMT -5
Wait what? You would back a rhino over a Kodiak bear at the same weights? I would clearly favour the Kodiak in this case and even with the weights listed above I am not sure about a rhino win; please enlighten me why a rhino would be 2-3 leagues over a bison then.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 3, 2020 16:57:52 GMT -5
Wait what? You would back a rhino over a Kodiak bear at the same weights? I would clearly favour the Kodiak in this case and even with the weights listed above I am not sure about a rhino win; please enlighten me why a rhino would be 2-3 leagues over a bison then. At same weights my opinion is 50% yes. and bear vs bison is 50% also. But here is the Kodiak bear vs Sumatran rhino thread, here you can read our opinions and give yours also.
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/628/kodiak-bear-sumatran-rhinoceros?page=1
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 3, 2020 17:07:36 GMT -5
Okay, I am thinking way different about this. It's clear that the rhino offers advantages over a bison/buffalo at weight parity like better durability/robusticity, a nasty bite, a tough hide and a more compact and well rounded body. However, there are also some disadvantages like being less agile, reduced mobility and in this case the rhino doesn't have a dangerous horn. I've seen how bears are able to handle and grapple down herbivores their own size and it's fairly easy, barren ground grizzlies regularly subdue adult muskoxen nearly 3x their own bodyweight and I don't believe it would be much harder with a rhino, especially the most gracile and smallest subspecies without proficient goring capabilities; a Kodiak bear would tower over a Sumatran rhino at similar weights and for me it is out of contest that a very large brown bear should beat a Sumatran rhino the same weight at least 8-9/10 times. And for the record, a brown bear would have a tremendous strength advantage over a rhino at similar weights, something the rhino offers no effective defense against.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 3, 2020 17:31:57 GMT -5
Well, even though this is the smallest rhino in the world, it is still a rhino nontheless. Its does have much shorter horns than white or black rhinos and its does have very poor eyesight. But it does have very thick skin and it is definitely capable of raming the bear to death.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 3, 2020 17:48:44 GMT -5
We are talking about parity at the moment; a bear has never been rammed to death by a herbivore the same size as he can effectively countergrapple a charging herbivore even 2-3x his size. Before I point out why the rhino would have absolutely no chance of ramming over a confident male brown bear the same size, let me remind you of something: these are the average measurements for African cape bulls: 145cm at the shoulders, 260cm in length and a weight of 750kg; now compare it to the Sumatran rhinoceros: 140cm at the shoulders, 260-270cm in length and a weight of 700-800kg, roughly the same, aren't they? Now let's add the white rhinoceros standing 180cm tall, being 385cm in length and weighing 2300kg; let's use the BMI formula on them:
African Cape Buffalo: 110.9 Sumatran Rhinoceros: 106.8 White Rhinoceros: 159.3
You can clearly see that the Sumatran rhino lacks bulk in comparison to the white rhino; the Sumatran rhino is in fact proportionately less massive than a bull cape buffalo which underlines my previous evaluation that it is a rather gracile subspecies and can't be compared to the large black/white rhinos in terms of robusticity/strength.
Let's assume that the rhino wants to charge the similar sized Kodiak bear in order to get a take down, the rhino doesn't have mobile limbs or any other possibilities of generating additional forces on the bear, it's just his dead weight and speed. We've seen how that ends when a female grizzly bear took on an overconfident bull caribou twice her size, I'll share it below:
You can see that the bull caribou has absolutely zero chance of knocking the bear over, he gets pulled down efficiently and has nothing to offer. The same principle applies to our scenario here: dead weight and speed with the only difference that the two would be similar in size with the bear being taller and much stronger. The rhino would have no chance to defend himself against the dexterous/mobile/strong forelimbs of the bear and would easily be turned upside down. Grizzlies apply the same tactic to muskoxen and occasionally to moose; they are masters of outbalancing/outmaneuvering their opponent by making use of their dexterity and when they have established control over the head/neck region of a herbivore they start pulling it down and there is absolutely no chance that the comparatively gracile Sumatran rhinoceros could counter this when taking on a similar sized brown bear. The rhino having thick hide shouldn't be that much of an issue as old/sick rhinos have been preyed upon by lions/tigers who just started eating the rhino alive as it did offer practically no resistance to them. And if a lion/tiger is able to penetrate the thick skin of the much larger African/Indian rhino without any severe issues, a Kodiak bear having a bite force nearly twice as strong will easily be able to do so to the smaller Sumatran rhino.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 3, 2020 18:11:41 GMT -5
You do have some great points there i see. But i dont think a bear is "much stronger" than a same weight rhino though. Stronger yes, but not by much. Anyways, i know it was most likely a white or black rhino much larger than the bear, but in the only recorded fight in history, a rhino killed a bear fairly easy at the Roman blood games.
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