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Post by theundertaker45 on Oct 6, 2020 10:08:45 GMT -5
@thegreenagriotherium
True; they had different approaches but the sabretooths' grappling abilities were much more efficient as morphological studies indicate.
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Post by brobear on Oct 6, 2020 10:19:26 GMT -5
@thegreenagriotherium True; they had different approaches but the sabretooths' grappling abilities were much more efficient as morphological studies indicate. The saber-tooths were brawnier, and thus better wrestlers. But, it is my understanding that their kill method was much more specialized. If Smilodon had to bite the throat area; with no other choices, this might prove to be a handicap.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Oct 6, 2020 10:25:19 GMT -5
I guess that's a rather conservative approach to their abilities; there have been several skeletons with puncture marks through the skull along with still intact canines. If they had no other option, they would target their opponent's skull; the claim that their teeth weren't designed for that was disproved by the many fossil remains that have been gathered over the last 50+ years.
I'll post a study on it in the Sabretooth-Section nevertheless; maybe we can move our conversation there.😁
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Post by tom on Oct 6, 2020 10:47:20 GMT -5
Is there any data that would suggest the long canines on the Sabertooth cats were prone to breaking or fracturing due to their extra length?
Reason being if he would to bite down hard on something very rigid or hard it would seem IMO to be susceptible to fracturing.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 6, 2020 10:56:03 GMT -5
Is there any data that would suggest the long canines on the Sabertooth cats were prone to breaking or fracturing due to their extra length? Reason being if he would to bite down hard on something very rigid or hard it would seem IMO to be susceptible to fracturing. Yes Tom, there are several studies suggesting that. I think this is one of them:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/30882/thread
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 6, 2020 10:59:57 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 6, 2020 15:04:18 GMT -5
Bengal Tiger vs Smilodon Fatalis
Great comparison picture 'Taker.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 8, 2020 10:52:36 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 8, 2020 16:35:52 GMT -5
The most reliable sources have the Smilodon Populator average weight at 300 kg (661 lbs). A 360 kg specimen would be way above average, it would be a really large specimen.
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Post by tom on Oct 8, 2020 17:10:55 GMT -5
Ok just for comparison purposes: 360 kg = 793 pounds
400 kg = 881 pounds 450 kg = 992 pounds 500 kg = 1102 pounds
I would have a hard time believing that a S. populator much over 360 kg ever lived but... that's my opinion of course. Even a 360 kg specimen I would think would have been an extraordinarily large specimen.
Seems the weights vary depending on what source you choose to believe.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2020 17:50:19 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 8, 2020 17:57:01 GMT -5
Reply #360: those weights listed are the normal max weights. We know that Smilodon populator averaged 300 kg (661 lbs).
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 8, 2020 18:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2020 18:35:42 GMT -5
Quote: Blazze had made some estimates that significantly reduced the size of these bears, however the weight of these big bears is still a mystery. It is also worth mentioning the European Cave Bear, which would have reached up to 800 kilos, and which I personally believe is the main candidate for the greatest bear of all time along with Arctodus. *The biggest cave bear is on the chart: Ursus ingressus. Shoulder height: 170cm ( 5 feet 7 inches ). Arctodus simus shouder height: 185cm ( 6 feet 1 inch ). The man pictured in your "Attachments" would be about 7 feet tall.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2020 19:28:05 GMT -5
500 kilograms is equal to 1,102.31 pounds. I would wish to see the dimensions of such a cat to compare with a Kodiak bear. Average fully grown male Kodiak bear (9 years+) - 1077.3 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2020 19:56:39 GMT -5
500 kilograms is equal to 1,102.31 pounds. I would wish to see the dimensions of such a cat to compare with a Kodiak bear. Average fully grown male Kodiak bear (9 years+) - 1077.3 pounds. My point here is, the average full-grown male Kodiak bear measures roughly 8 feet from nose to rump and weighs 1,077 pounds. Not even the saber-tooths were as robust as a brown bear. S. populator would have to measure ( IMO ) about 10 feet in head-and-body length to be at weight-parity with a Kodiak bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 8, 2020 20:08:59 GMT -5
A male Kodiak bear and polar bear are too large and powerful for any smilodon populator and other big cat (extinct or extant) for the matter of fact. The Ussuri brown bear and smilodon populator overlaps in weights so the battle will be interesting and both will end up injured. The smilodon might have the slightly more robust limb pound to pound but a brown bear is still bulkier and would have more powerful forearms and its backbone being shorter would still give it more strength. A close match, male brown bear 5.5 to 6/10 in my opinion.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Oct 9, 2020 0:57:30 GMT -5
*Enjoy your ban, sittingbull; all of your worthless activity/posts on this forum will be deleted. And whoever tries to join the forum with such disgusting intentions in the future will also be instantly banned, so don't even try it...*
Edit: All comments quoting "sittingbull" have been deleted.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 9, 2020 1:24:21 GMT -5
Alright. Since here is another question. How would a smilodon fatalis do if it was made to face off a tiger or lion at weight parity? We know smilodons have stronger forearms but with much weaker jaws and are unable to kill prey the same way. Their canines are effective for piercing skull bones but they have to do it at the right time as struggling prey or opponents fighting back can potentially break them canines.
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Post by brobear on Oct 9, 2020 2:58:28 GMT -5
The big cat has never existed that could defeat a brown bear of Kodiak proportions in a face-off. Reply #1: The brown bear has much shorter frontlimbs than hindlimbs are compared to S. populator, and a bit shorter proportions compared to S. fatalis. In this form, S. fatalis is more robust and bear-like than S. populator, but neither were probably as muscular as a bear, but rather some of the bone width was more for running stress similarly to how lions bones have widened so greatly as compared to other cats. From another popular site: Smilodon populator
Smilodon, often called a saber-toothed cat or wrongly a saber-toothed tiger, is an extinct genus of machairodonts. This saber-toothed cat was endemic to North America and South America, living from near the beginning through the very end of the Pleistocene epoch (2.5 mya—10,000 years ago). Smilodon populator ("Smilodon the Devastator"), 1 million-10,000 years ago; occurred in the eastern parts of South America and was the largest species of all machairodonts. It was much larger than its cousins, S. fatalis and S. gracilis, possessing a massive chest and front legs, and is the largest known variety of saber-toothed cat. It was more than 1.40 m (55 in) high at the shoulder, 2.6 m (100 in) long on average and had a 30 cm (12 in) tail. Smilodon populator was substantially heavier and larger than any extant felid, with a body mass range of 220–360 kg. Particularly large specimens of S. populator almost certainly exceeded 400 kg in body mass. Its upper canines reached 30 cm (12 in) and protruded up to 17 cm (6.7 in) out of the upper jaw. Genetic evidence suggests that Smilodon populator and other members of the genus diverged from the main lineage of modern cats (subfamily Felinae) around 14-18 million years ago.
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