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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 4, 2020 9:25:20 GMT -5
Going by this info here, the cat is larger than the bear at average weights. Also, we still dont know if the 595 lb average weight for the Ussuri brown bear are 5+ year olds, or 9+, or a mix, whatever, we dont know, so we have to go by the 595 lb mark.
The cat is taller at the shoulders also. a 60 lb weight advantage is not too decisive. (I always use a 200+ lbs weight advantage as very decisive), going by all this, at averages, i have to favour the cat at least 6/7 out of 10 times.
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 9:56:32 GMT -5
Going by this info here, the cat is larger than the bear at average weights. Also, we still dont know if the 595 lb average weight for the Ussuri brown bear are 5+ year olds, or 9+, or a mix, whatever, we dont know, so we have to go by the 595 lb mark.
The cat is taller at the shoulders also. a 60 lb weight advantage is not too decisive. (I always use a 200+ lbs weight advantage as very decisive), going by all this, at averages, i have to favour the cat at least 6/7 out of 10 times.
Kodiak, the average 9+ year old male Ussuri brown bear would weigh between 650 and 700 pounds.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 4, 2020 10:03:40 GMT -5
Maybe brobear. But like i said above, the chart made by GuateGojira which has the Ussuri brown bear at 595 lbs, does not state the age class of the bears, so we really dont know. We are just "assuming" they are 5+, but we really dont know. Unless you read from him somewhere that those are 5+ ?
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 4, 2020 10:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 11:17:48 GMT -5
Wasn't there a study which said that tigers and jaguars were the closest to smilodon in built?
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 14:05:24 GMT -5
No; I lost Wildfact again. But bear studies are all done the same. 595 is bears ranging from 5 years old and up. However; if you need reassurance; there are still a few here who venture onto Wildfact.
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Post by tom on Oct 4, 2020 15:19:34 GMT -5
Would the Smilodon Populator have co-existed with the giant short faced bears? I'm assuming if they did the short faced Bears (being as large as they were) would roam the land and steal any kills from the sabor toothed cat?
The Sabor toothed cats from what I've read lived similar to Lions and hunted in packs. would a short faced Bear displace a pack of Smilodons from a kill?
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Post by smedz on Oct 4, 2020 16:06:30 GMT -5
Would the Smilodon Populator have co-existed with the giant short faced bears? I'm assuming if they did the short faced Bears (being as large as they were) would roam the land and steal any kills from the sabor toothed cat? The Sabor toothed cats from what I've read lived similar to Lions and hunted in packs. would a short faced Bear displace a pack of Smilodons from a kill? Smilodon Populator and Arctotherium angustidens did not live together. I've thought it possible for some Arctodus simus to have crossed the Bering Land Bridge as speculation, but as far as scientists know the giant feline did not coexist with eithe rof those giant bears. Check this For the second question, are you referring to Smilodon fatalis or Smilodon Populator? If fatalis is the one you're referring to then I think Arctodus wouldn't have had a problem taking kills from them because as with all pack hunters, individual members are vital for territorial defense against rival groups. Now you could argue that since Smilodons healed their wounded comrades that could've made them bolder but on the other hand, the pack itself would still be more vulnerable to being overpowered but a bigger group. As for if Smilodon Populator was social or not, it's known that Smilodon was basically a slow grower in that the adult teeth took longer to come in and their canines would take 3 years or so to grow to full size and being in a group benefits that because the cubs are in a bigger security system if you will. No to mention populator lived in grasslands where it is even more advantageous to be in groups.
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 16:46:05 GMT -5
Would the Smilodon Populator have co-existed with the giant short faced bears? I'm assuming if they did the short faced Bears (being as large as they were) would roam the land and steal any kills from the sabor toothed cat? The Sabor toothed cats from what I've read lived similar to Lions and hunted in packs. would a short faced Bear displace a pack of Smilodons from a kill? In theory. Two opposing views with no conclusive evidence. But, even if they did live and hunt in groups, its unlikely that Smilodon was as aggressive as a lion. This is supposed because there appears to be little or no difference in the size of the sexes. In short; the habits and character of prehistoric animals cannot be studied. Anyway, if Smilodon was a pack hunter, then the brown bear is taken down a notch on the "predator totem pole".
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 16:55:34 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 4, 2020 17:04:35 GMT -5
According to Wiki, Smilodon populator arrived after the extinction of Angustidens, thus explaining why it had a larger size than the North American Sabre-toothed cats which did live with Simus.
"North America also supported other saber-toothed cats, such as Homotherium and Xenosmilus, as well as other large carnivores including dire wolves, short-faced bear (Arctodus simus) and the American lion.[13][63][84] Competition from such carnivores may have prevented North American S. fatalis from attaining the size of South America's S. populator. The similarity in size of S. fatalis and the American lion suggests niche overlap and direct competition between these species, and they appear to have fed on similarly sized prey."
"S. populator may have been able to reach larger size than S. fatalis due to a lack of competition in Pleistocene South America; S. populator arrived after the extinction of Arctotherium angustidens, one of the largest carnivores ever, and could therefore assume the niche of mega-carnivore"
Check distribution and habitat section:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilodon
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Post by smedz on Oct 4, 2020 17:21:58 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 4, 2020 17:29:46 GMT -5
Reply #122:
Somehow Prehistoric fauna got that mixed up. Angustidens was never in North America. He most likely was talking about the Tremarctinae subfamily in general, but even then the Tremarctinae subfamily appeared in the late Miocene epoch with the Plionarctos genus.
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 18:41:14 GMT -5
Thank you smedz and Kodiak. prehistoric-fauna.com says A. angustidens lived ( quote ) " Pleistocene - Holocene of North America (~1.1 Ma – 10 000 years ago)" But anyway; Thankx. I learned something here today.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Oct 6, 2020 7:54:03 GMT -5
You can clearly see how much more front-heavy the ancient sabretooths were; overall less balanced than our modern pantherines but much more bulky. These prehistoric cats were better equipped for head-on fights due to them needing the physiology/strength in order to take down comparatively much larger prey in their relatively uncovered environment.
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Post by tom on Oct 6, 2020 9:03:17 GMT -5
Yes and correct me if I'm wrong but Fatalis wasn't even the largest of the sabor tooth cats. Forgive me if you've already done this but could we see a comparison of Fatalis and populator
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Post by tom on Oct 6, 2020 9:12:07 GMT -5
Not sure how accurate this is but Populator looks considerably more muscular, thicker, robust however you want to look at it.
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Post by tom on Oct 6, 2020 9:15:35 GMT -5
The Siberian tiger looks a stockier. There was a time though the the Siberian Tiger was larger, sometimes much more so.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 6, 2020 9:22:51 GMT -5
The Siberian tiger looks a stockier. There was a time though the the Siberian Tiger was larger, sometimes much more so. Agreed. The Siberian tiger was heavier in the past.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 6, 2020 9:26:18 GMT -5
You can clearly see how much more front-heavy the ancient sabretooths were; overall less balanced than our modern pantherines but much more bulky. These prehistoric cats were better equipped for head-on fights due to them needing the physiology/strength in order to take down comparatively much larger prey in their relatively uncovered environment. The sabre toothed cat has more powerful forelimbs but it is unable to grapple prey the same way a tiger or lion is able to. They kill by slashing while they hold down prey.
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