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Post by brobear on Sept 19, 2023 21:32:59 GMT -5
Questionable like both the tyrant polar bears and king polar bears right? Somewhat. The "tyrant polar bear" was probably a Steppe brown bear. You are more familiar with the questionable king polar bear than I am.
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Post by brobear on Sept 19, 2023 22:18:03 GMT -5
Some tiger enthusiasts - not from W.F. - which I will not name - claim: "A large male Ngandong Tiger could have weighed up from 400-550kg, (1,212.54 pounds). Compare: Average fully grown male Kodiak bear (9 years+) - 1077.3 pounds. That could be a one of record weight just as there is a male Ussuri brown bear that weighs 1320 pounds. Every animal has exceptionally large and exceptionally small specimens. Consider that an Ussuri brown bear, at equal HBL with an Amur tiger, has roughly a 200 pound weight advantage over the tiger. The Ngandong tiger measured from 172 cm (5ft. 8 in.) to 233 cm (7 ft. 8 in.) in total HBL. A full-grown male Kodiak bear will measure from 8 to nearly 10 feet long. For a tiger to equal this brown bear's weight, the big cat would have to have a HBL of from 12 to 13 feet - that's not including the tail.
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Post by brobear on Sept 19, 2023 22:47:34 GMT -5
-Smilodon populator: max. size of 230cm (7 ft. 7 in.) in length, 120cm (3 ft. 11 in.) at the shoulders and a weight of 400-450kg, (882 to 992 lbs). Smilodon populator was the biggest cat ever - unless there is some yet undiscovered ancient cat to be found.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 19, 2023 23:56:40 GMT -5
-Smilodon populator: max. size of 230cm (7 ft. 7 in.) in length, 120cm (3 ft. 11 in.) at the shoulders and a weight of 400-450kg, (882 to 992 lbs). Smilodon populator was the biggest cat ever - unless there is some yet undiscovered ancient cat to be found. When it talks about taking down prey as large as three tonnes, it is probably when they are together in a small pride.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2023 1:03:23 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2023 1:43:22 GMT -5
Saber-toothed cats hunted on the South American plains Date: March 18, 2016 Source: University of Tübingen Summary: Like the lion which today lives in the African savannah, the saber-tooth "tiger," Smilodon populator, inhabited the open, dry country found in South America during the ice age, according to new research. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160318090432.htm Like the lion which today lives in the African savannah, the saber-tooth "tiger," Smilodon populator, inhabited the open, dry country found in South America during the ice age, according to Professor Hervé Bocherens of the Senckenberg Center for Human Evolution and Palaeoenvironment at the University of Tübingen. The results of his latest study have been published in the latest edition of the journal Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology. To find out more about the eating habits of what was then South America's biggest cat, Bocherens and his team examined the bones of saber-toothed cats which lived in Argentina's Pampas region in the period 25,000-10,000 B.C.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2023 1:45:16 GMT -5
"Up to now, palaeontologists assumed that a predator weighing up to 400 kilograms and with bone structure similar to that of a forest-dwelling cat would have hunted in woodlands," says Hervé Bocherens. It was thought that would make it easier for the animals -- with their canines up to 30 centimeters long -- to find hiding places from which to attack their prey. But Bocherens' study points to a different conclusion. He compared collagen samples from the bones of various ice age predators -- including the saber-toothed cat, the jaguar (Panthera onca), and a species of wild dog (Protocyon) -- with those of their likely prey. The carbon and nitrogen isotopes he found there enable him to draw conclusions about the kind of environment the animals lived in. The saber-toothed cats did not eat animals which were at home in thickly wooded country. Their chief prey seems to have been a camel-like, steppe-dwelling ungulate known to scientists as Macrauchenia, and two species of giant sloth (Megatherium und Lestodon) -- who, unlike their surviving relatives, lived on the ground and could grow to several tonnes in weight. There could be a further parallel with today's African lions; the bones of several individual saber-toothed tigers were found together and contained similar isotopes, Bocherens says -- "It may be that these predators, too, hunted together in groups." The saber-toothed cat (Smilodon) evolved in North America and spread to South America with the formation of a stable land bridge between the two continents some three million years ago. It appears that the saber-toothed tigers' fiercest competitors were not other big cats. The study indicates that the jaguar preferred smaller prey, such as rodents and species of horse. But the ice age dog (Protocyon) seems to have shared the saber-tooths' culinary tastes. Many types of megafauna died out at the end of the ice age, including the saber-toothed cat. Researchers debate the possible influence of climate change and human activity on the extinctions. The Tübingen researchers believe that a damper climate could have led to increased forestation of the steppe -- reducing the saber-toothed tigers' hunting grounds and ultimately causing them to die out. *Quote: "... weighing up to 400 kilograms..." 882 pounds
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Post by brobear on Sept 21, 2023 6:41:05 GMT -5
Top 5 largest prehistoric cats ourplnt.com/top-five-largest-prehistoric-cats/#google_vignette 3. Ngandong tiger - The minimum weight for females was estimated at 143 kg, although males can weigh up to 368 kg, with an exceptional specimen weighing up to 400 kg. (882 pounds). 1. Smilodon populator: the largest prehistoric cat - Adult individuals typically weighed between 220 and 435 kilograms (485 to 960 pounds), although some exceptionally large specimens may have exceeded this range. I am also reading, from what I believe to be reliable sources, that Panthera tigris soloensis might possibly have reached a weight of as much as 400 kg (882 pounds).
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Post by brobear on Sept 21, 2023 9:11:23 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Sept 21, 2023 12:44:59 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Sept 21, 2023 12:45:05 GMT -5
I have a request that can someone show me the exact sizes of American lion, Smilodon populator and Ngandong tiger?
In this match, my opinion is that the smilodon would win as Saber-tooth cats had a more bear-like than other cats meaning more robust and stronger than the tiger. Second, i see its saber-like tooth another advantage though it might not be a major one. In size terms, i view both as almost equal.
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Post by Hafstanni on Sept 21, 2023 18:09:45 GMT -5
If anyone is wondering, a 550 kg Ngandong tiger would look like this next to a 180 cm tall human if it had the same proportions as a Bengal tiger. Attachments:
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 0:30:04 GMT -5
GuateGojira - The giant Sonda tiger is an amazing re-discovery and the credit goes to the Dr Heltler and Volmer, which started an study about predation and presented this forgothen subspecies. Latter in the AVA forum I started an investigation and found much more information in documents and other posters started sharing they data. Here in WildFact @tigerluver and @grizzlyclaws made an excelent work continuing with my original investigation and providing more data and even a NEW fossill! 1. How big was it?
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 0:33:30 GMT -5
Hafstanni - If anyone is wondering, a 550 kg Ngandong tiger would look like this next to a 180 cm tall human if it had the same proportions as a Bengal tiger.
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 0:39:35 GMT -5
If anyone is wondering, a 550 kg Ngandong tiger would look like this next to a 180 cm tall human if it had the same proportions as a Bengal tiger. This would truly be a monster of a tiger. But, we haven't seen, from any reliable source, that a Ngandong tiger ever reached this size. If it were true, then Smilodon populator would certainly be toppled from his thrown as "biggest cat ever". ___________________________ I am in agreement with GuateGojira's assessment and willing to give the Ngandong tiger 400 kg (882 pounds)... max size. Typical size? What would be the accepted max size and typical size for Smilodon populator? By the way Hafstanni, nice size comparison picture. *Note: I am going to change the title of this topic to: biggest cat species ever.
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 4:52:57 GMT -5
Credits to Rishi - 01-25-2018
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 21:08:11 GMT -5
GuateGojira - 06-20-2022 An average if 332 kg for male Panthera atrox is an exageration, the real range was probably about 251 kg, check that like I showed you before with the comparative images of the skulls, the difference between the biggest specimens of each species is not as incredible as some people believe. Now, it you are quoting Wheeler & Jefferson (2009), you need to be careful, in table 5B they made several estimation of body mass using several formulas, so they result is that the average of the average figures is of 251 kg, the average of the maximum figures is of 332 kg and the average of the minimum figures is of 218 kg. In conclution, based in they study, the maximum weight using all the formulas is about 332 kg, and the average using all the formulas is of 251 kg. This is very close to the body mass estimations from Christiansen & Harris (2009). _______________________ Average American lion (male)... 251 kg (553 pounds) Maximum American lion (male)... 332 kg (732 pounds)
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2023 21:23:40 GMT -5
Cave lions - GuateGojira - 08-25-2020 As far I know, there is no study about the maximum weight from Beringian cave lion, but based in the fact that all the bones are about the same size than modern lions and tigers, they probably weighed the same (100 - 270 kg). Now, about Eurasian cave lions, an study of Guzvica (1998) estimated that the heaviest male Cave lion weighed 367 kg, but I use to quote the giant skull of 484.7 mm in greatest length, which could perfectly reach the 400 kg. ________________________________________________ *This is my personal thoughts. I believe that each and every animal has it's size limitations. Some examples. Elephants are big and some prehistoric elephant relatives were absolutely huge. But none were as massive as some of the giant sauropods. Some bear species can weigh over half a ton. There have been Pleistocene bears that reached weights over one full ton. However, there were no two-ton bears. I believe that 400 kg (882 pounds) is pretty-much the absolute weight limit for any healthy wild pantherine cat. Perhaps this limitation is slightly over or under 400 kg. Of course, a captive dish-fed obese specimen can weigh above this. The size limitations for the Machairodontinae is probably higher (to some degree) due to their many physical differences.
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Post by brobear on Sept 24, 2023 4:34:30 GMT -5
It is a known fact that a healthy tiger within the 400-pound range can leap over a 10-foot high barrier. I agree that this is an astonishing physical feat. But, I also believe that (per size) a leopard, a cougar, or a snow leopard could out-compete a tiger. A 400-pound tiger cannot scurry up a tree with the athleticism of a cougar or a leopard. Size matters and it can be both pro and con. Lions and tigers both normally seek bigger heavier prey such as zebra, buffalo, or wild boar (easier to catch). The heavier the pantherine, the lesser his athleticism and stamina. I seriously doubt that an 800-pound tiger could gracefully leap over a 10-foot high barrier. This big cat would be hunting very large slower moving prey. Something similar to bison, moose, or wild boar... by stealth and ambush of course. After using-up precious energy in that explosive burst of speed it takes to complete the ambush and make physical contact with his prey, the 800-pound tiger must sink his teeth into the right place and latch-on with those powerful jaws. If his first attempt at killing his prey fails, it will take long hours of rest time to recuperate and find the energy for another hunt. (imo)
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